Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA and the Secret History of the Sixties

[John Kozlowski]

2 hours ago, Jim Harwood said:

Sorry John but I don't have any good suggestions for a Manson/Tate forum. But here is an interesting video with Manson talking about his first encounter in prison (I think he dates it 1950) with Ron Hubbard's Dianetics (Scientology) and Robert Moores "Process Church of the Final Judgement" which the British exported to this country soon after exporting the likes of the Beatles, Stones, Animals, etc. or what became tongue and cheek known as the "British Invasion" they sent the heavier artillery their satanic networks.  "All you need is love.......... we all live in a yellow submarine....

 

 

 

Thanks for that. I recently listened to an episode of The Opperman Report that dealt with the Process Church and have started reading about it.

Edit: I see that video is from William Ramsey. He has a lot of of stuff online about the Process Church and Crowley. I listened to an episode of his podcast about the Son of Sam and possible connection to the church. Not sure how accurate it was but some made sense and was very interesting.

Edited August 28, 2019 by John Kozlowski

[John Kozlowski]

2 hours ago, David Andrews said:

In case you haven't seen this thread:

https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?16991-Zodiac-Killer-was-a-Member-of-the-International-White-Guard&p=125978#post125978

It's useful to search DPF and EF for past Manson threads that can lead you to forums.

See this site for forum links - see bottom of page:

http://www.cielodrive.com/index.php

Sorry - I don't follow Manson stuff constantly, it's just the O'Neill book and other emerging news that revives my interest.

There's this:

http://mansonmurders.proboards.com/

There's this blog, not a forum.  The guy really pushes legal and moral boundaries in dealing with the Tate family and others, but there may be some truths here:

http://tatelabianca.blogspot.com/2012/08/i-have-little-system-of-my-own.html

I did not see that. Thanks for the links!!

[Jim Harwood]

John, yes the Process Church is connected to Manson and Son of Sam. Below is a picture of Hollywood TV darling Mary Tyler Moore and one of the Satanist from the Process Church. Hollywood is essentially run by Satanist which is the ugly secret prosecutor Bugliosi tried so hard to cover up when he blamed all these ritual killings on Charles Manson who he claimed ordered them. Not unlike the satanic dog "Sam" that ordered Berkowitz to kill his victims.

 

[Ron Bulman]

What about Jolly?

[Cliff Varnell]

12 hours ago, Jim Harwood said:

 Hollywood is essentially run by Satanist which is the ugly secret prosecutor Bugliosi tried so hard to cover up when he blamed all these ritual killings on Charles Manson who he claimed ordered them. Not unlike the satanic dog "Sam" that ordered Berkowitz to kill his victims.

Manson has admitted his role in the murders.

Charlie was a motormouth and we know what kind of big mouth Susan Atkins had but somehow over all these decades neither said a word about "gov't intel" connections to the murders.

I think it's funny that a worshiper of Donald Trump casts aspersions on Hollywood.  What's more evil than white supremacy?

Edited August 29, 2019 by Cliff Varnell

[Jim Harwood]

5 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Manson has admitted his role in the murders.

Charlie was a motormouth and we know what kind of big mouth Susan Atkins had but somehow over all these decades neither said a word about "gov't intel" connections to the murders.

I think it's funny that a worshiper of Donald Trump casts aspersions on Hollywood.  What's more evil than white supremacy?

White supremacy--what a hoot!  I am not a worshipper of President Trump, I am a patriot that is calling out the British for trying to get rid of another US President (The British Killed JFK, Abraham Lincoln, William McKinley, Garfield , and going way back their representative Aaron Burr assassinated the founder of our national banking system Alexander Hamilton)  they see as being a threat to the "Special Relationship".  

You're a smart guy Cliff why don't you read the House of Lords report from December 2018. White supremacy, I'll be laughing at that bit of insanity into next week. It's funny just like the traitorous New York Times you're changing your narrative to now focus on Trump's racism. Are you a programmed robot? 

[Jim Harwood]

7 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

What about Jolly?

Ron,

Are you asking about  Dr. Jolyon West? If so here is a 1994 article by historian Tony Chatkin who in 1994 wrote an article "British Psychiatry" From Eugenics to Assassination which covers the Manson case as well as other history. Chaitkin references a book by a Carol Green that has yet to be translated into english. Too bad I understand her work on the Manson case is outstanding. But Chaitkin had covered this territory with Manson long before this Oneil book. 

https://larouchepub.com/eiw/public/1994/eirv21n40-19941007/eirv21n40-19941007_028-british_psychiatry_from_eugenics.pdf

 

 

[Jim Harwood]

Cliff,

If interested here are two articles from 1982 about how Hollywood was created and shaped as a brainwashing tool against Americans. If you hadn't noticed a lot of times many of our actors and rock stars have come from the most dubious anti American families. You got the clown from Crosby Stills Nash and Young (Neil Young was also close to Charles Manson) , who comes from the Van Courtlandt family (Van Courtlandt Park in Brooklyn is where the son of sam David Berkowitz claimed the satanists held their sacrifice rituals), you got Chevy Chase  a Vanderbilt , Anderson Cooper the CNN talking head is a Vanderbilt, Julia Louis Dreyfus comes from the notorious Dreyfus family and the list could go on and on totalling in the hundreds.

Good read though 1982

https://larouchepub.com/eiw/public/1982/eirv09n41-19821026/eirv09n41-19821026_060-how_british_intelligence_shaped.pdf

How the US Film Industry was subleased to the Mafia 

(Watch for the reference to JFK press secretary Pierre Salinger and Keith Barish (partners with Schriver husband in Planet Hollywood- damn but those Kennedy's love the nazi's dont they?) Barish started an off shore money fund modeled on Bernie Cornfield and Robert Vesco's IOS called Gramco. Joining Baris was Pierre Salinger, and the rest of Larry O'Brien's irish mob from the White House under JFK. Barish also enlisted the help of Prince Borghese (The Black  prince) not to mention a wealthy anti Castro Cuban. Now if that isn't a strange group of bedfellows I don't know what is. You got a Kennedy intern, the Kennedy press secretary, 6 of the Irish Mafia that worked for JFK inside the WH, then you got the Fascist prince of darkness the Prince Borghese (sp?) on the Granco team and one of the key family members of the Anti Castro Cubans also on the Gramco team. 

it begs the question --just who are the Kennedy's ?

https://larouchepub.com/eiw/public/1982/eirv09n43-19821109/eirv09n43-19821109_058-how_the_us_film_industry_was_sub.pdf

 

[Jim Harwood]

This is the Synagogue in St. Louis Park that former SNL and US Senator Al Franken was associate with as a kid. Franken named the late Rabbi who ran this synagogue for years as the most influential person in his life. This rabbi would eulogize notorious mobster Kid Cann aka "Isadore Blumenfield" in 1981. 

 

But here is Senator Franken's synagogue hosting David Berkowitz the notorious Son of Sam killer in 2011.

https://www.tcdailyplanet.net/son-sam-appear-beth-el-synagogue/

What strange bed fellows. 

[Cliff Varnell]

2 hours ago, Jim Harwood said:

White supremacy--what a hoot!  I am not a worshipper of President Trump,

I stand corrected.

2 hours ago, Jim Harwood said:

Are you a programmed robot? 

Yes.  Nexus 6.  A basic pleasure model...How'd you know?

[Jim Harwood]

1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

I stand corrected.

Yes.  Nexus 6.  A basic pleasure model...How'd you know?

Sory Cliff but I thought you were screaming warnings of Theocratic Fascism. I saw the other day where the editor of the NYT's told his troops at the Times that they had to drop the Russian collusion narrative and switch to a narrative about Trump's racism. Then I see you making the same claim so I thought maybe you got programmed? 

[David Andrews]

An accidental find on YouTube shows some Manson family arms in the LA DA's office evidence locker.  Looks like a sawed-off pump gun, perhaps an M-16, and a lever-action rifle.  Starts at 3:07:

 

[Jim Harwood]

20 hours ago, David Andrews said:

An accidental find on YouTube shows some Manson family arms in the LA DA's office evidence locker.  Looks like a sawed-off pump gun, perhaps an M-16, and a lever-action rifle.  Starts at 3:07:

 

Let me add this bit of information as well:  (By the way the Process Church was located less than 1/2 mile from Clay Shaw's home in the French Quarters in 1968)

Inside the Rat’s Maze

 

       Consider what was carried out in San Francisco during 1965-1968.  Consider the {intended effect}. By the 1960s, R.D. Laing and others at London’s Tavistock Institute were proclaiming that “no criteria for sanity actually exists,” and that psychedelic drugs could be used to remake an individuals concept of what is sane.  The idea in San Francisco was to create an environment where traditional notions of sanity would no longer exist, to create an artificial reality where no outside influences could intervene.

       To give a sense of this, consider the Haight-Ashbury district geographically.  It is a very small area, yet in that restricted zone, the following existed:

       The Grateful Dead lived at 710 Ashbury Street, Janis Joplin at 635 Ashbury, Country Joe and the Fish at 638 Ashbury, the Hell’s Angels at 719 Ashbury.  The Jefferson Airplane were just across the Panhandle at 2400 Fulton Street.  Charles Manson lived at 636 Cole St., and the Satanic Process Church of the Final Judgement, with which Manson was associated, was only two blocks away at 407 Cole.  The Free Medical Clinic, where the CIA’s Jolly West operated, was at the corner of Haight and Clayton, and West’s crash-pad, where he deployed a team of underlings to dispense LSD was only a few blocks away.  The Psychedelic Shop was at 1535 Haight Street; the San Francisco Oracle was a block-and-a-half away at 1371 Haight Street; and the Diggers Free Bakery was at 1350 Waller Street, one block off Haight Street..

       The Avalon Ballroom, the Family Dog and the Fillmore launched psychedelic rock concerts with music and light shows that were deliberately designed to create a dissociative mental state.  The Diggers and the S.F. Mime Troop filled the streets with absurdist theater and outlandish parades.  The onetime burlesque queen Magnolia Thunderpussy sold erotic desserts at her 1398 Haight Street café.  Spiritualism, meditation, so-called eastern-religions and other forms of “mind-expansion” were advertised on every street corner.  And for four years the neighborhood was drenched in Billy Mellon Hitchcock’s LSD. 

       This was all packed into a tiny neighborhood; it was concentrated, incessant, and it didn’t stop.  The experiment was pushed to the breaking point to see if a radical transformation could be accomplished.

 

[W. Niederhut]

        Well, I finally read Tom O'Neill's Chaos book this week, then went back and re-read this entire, fascinating July-to-September Forum thread-- including the DiEugenio review of the book.   Better late than never.  (Ron Bulman's posts about Jolly West finally prompted me to buy the book.)

        I have a few thoughts and observations about the "forest" of Chaos in relation to the "trees."  Most of the debate here is about various trees.

       My impression is that O'Neill was striving during the past 20 years to synthesize his numerous discoveries about Manson, the LAPD, LASO, the two Smiths, Jolly West, Reeve Whitson, the CIA, et.al.,  into an integrated explanatory theory of the Family and the Tate/La Bianca murders.

      As he, himself, admits in the epilogue, he didn't get there.

      BUT, he has, certainly, unearthed a number of pieces of a putative puzzle.

1)  One of the most compelling cases he presents is the astonishing history of Charles Manson and the Family being repeatedly ignored and excused by law enforcement authorities (LASO and LAPD) after committing multiple serious felonies.  This would include Manson's curious transfer of parole to Roger Smith in Haight-Asbury, auto thefts, drug trafficking, and even murders (e.g., the Tenerelli case.)  The police suppression of the info about the Beausoliel phone call to the Spahn Ranch after the Hinman murder is, perhaps, the most shocking example, especially since no one had been arrested for the Tate/LaBianca murders at the time that Beausoliel's phone call from San Luis Obispo was taped.

O'Neill presents a convincing case, IMO, that Manson and the Family were being protected from law enforcement on a high level.  Why?

2)  O'Neill also presents a compelling case, from the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute archives, that Dr. Jolyon "Jolly" West was a long-term contractor with Dr. Sidney Gottlieb and the CIA's MK-Ultra program-- with a specific mandate (and funding) to study techniques of mind control, automatic obedience, and the induction of amnesia and mental illness.   The Lackland AFB Shaver murder case and Jack Ruby's acute-onset psychosis in April of 1964 (after a visit by Jolly West) were truly shocking to read about, and I'm a psychiatrist!

    I know a lot about psychotic disorders, and the Jack Ruby/Jolly West case strikes me as highly unusual, clinically anomalous.  It, certainly, sounds like West must have given Ruby a psychoto-mimetic drug of some type.  Has anyone studied the history of the medical staff who "treated" Jack Ruby in prison?

3)  O'Neill also presents compelling circumstantial evidence of higher-level U.S. government involvement (including Jolly West's office!) in the Haight-Asbury free clinic frequented by Charles Manson and the Family, where Manson was in frequent contact with the mysterious, tight-lipped Roger Smith.

(The staff psychiatrist at the clinic, Dr. Dernberg, told O'Neill that the Tate/LaBianca murders were a case of an MK-ULTRA experiment that worked!)

 

         

      

[Steven Kossor]

I've read CHAOS too and want to echo Dr. Neiderhut's comments.  I'm a psychologist and the revelations in O'Neill's book about Dr. West and the coincidental emergence of "psychosis" in Jack Ruby shortly after his meeting with Dr. West is certainly anomalous.  There are too many instances of seeming "protection" given to Manson and his group, closely associated with his parole officer (who had just one client - Manson) who became a close friend, which is another anomaly.  The thought occurred to me that Dorothy Kilgallen died with information about Ruby and I wonder if she met with him before and after May 11, 1964 when Ruby's "psychosis" emerged coincidentally with Dr. West's visit; I wonder if she observed the change and put two and two together.... In any case, the depth of depravity displayed by the "Poisoner in Chief" (Sidney Gotlieb, I think, who was Dr. West's boss) and by West and others in that era (MKULTRA covers a lot of sins) perpetrated by "doctors" is startling.  Kinzer's book regarding the CIA involvement in medical experiments on human subjects without their knowledge or consent certainly fits with the horrific murders in 1969.  Looking forward to more revelations as the perpetrators and their protectors die off and leave incriminating evidence behind.  The truth will out, if we keep looking for it.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Steven Kossor
grammar....