NATO's Secret Armies, Operation Gladio and JFK

[David Andrews]

Thank you very much, Anthony.  Let me process all this -- a lot of the works cited in the quoted article are books I've read.  It's good to see some pieces of the story synthesized.

[Rob Couteau]

12 hours ago, Anthony Thorne said:

The funny thing about 9/11 conspiracy research - and I'm not using the term in a derogatory sense - is that if you take the idea of compartmentalising to its further extent, the mistake/blowblack/cover-your-ass series of books on the topic, and the more conspiratorial volumes that allege that events were allowed or facilitated via a Northwoods-style plan, could both be accurate and both be correct if the latter plan was undertaken by a private group of people who had kept broader elements of the government and intelligence agencies in the dark. 

I think this is a very important point; the same thing went through my mind when reading earlier posts here. They reflect dual aspects of the same reality. And there are many examples of this to be found in various Operation Gladio incidents during the Cold War (of one hand not knowing what the other is doing). I think we also have to constantly remind ourselves that we, as researchers operating in a truly occult area, are working with a paltry amount of facts and data, since so much remains intentionally hidden. Therefore, it is hazardous to jump to conclusions and imperative to remain open-minded.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Rob Couteau

[Rob Couteau]

12 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Incredible the attacks on her for telling the truth.

"Russian stooge" -- the new "Commie bastard" term along with "Islamic Fundamentalist." (Where would the weapons industry be without a scapegoat? They would be broke.) Of course they went after her because she questions the official narrative on why we go to war, which is repeated through the echo chambers of major media like muzak.

When you have the same narrative repeated from one media outlet to the next, I'd have to call that a conspiracy.

I don't know much about her, but from the little I've seen I think she could rip Trump to shreds. 

[W. Niederhut]

14 minutes ago, Rob Couteau said:

"Russian stooge" -- the new "Commie bastard" term along with "Islamic Fundamentalist." (Where would the weapons industry be without a scapegoat? They would be broke.) Of course they went after her because she questions the official narrative on why we go to war, which is repeated through the echo chambers of major media like muzak.

When you have the same narrative repeated from one media outlet to the next, I'd have to call that a conspiracy.

I don't know much about her, but from the little I've seen I think she could rip Trump to shreds. 

    Trump has been an enigma when it comes to Syria, at best.  On the one hand, he repeatedly criticized the Obama administration's Syrian policy, (as early as 2015) then de-funded CIA Operation Timber Sycamore in Syria (in July of 2017.)  Conversely, he has bombed Syrian government positions twice, ( in response to apparent false flag chemical weapons attacks blamed on the Syrian Army) while endorsing the Israeli annexation of the Golan Heights. 

   As for PNAC and Peter Dale Scott's 9/11 analysis, there seems to be a vast array of evidence that 9/11 was a false flag PNAC op that was carried out to mobilize U.S. public support for the implementation of the 1998 PNAC/Wolfowitz Doctrine-- establishing U.S. 9and NATO) hegemony in Central Asia.  What Sibel Edmonds called "Gladio B."

[David Andrews]

1 hour ago, Rob Couteau said:

I think this is a very important point; the same thing went through my mind when reading earlier posts here. They reflect dual aspects of the same reality. And there are many examples of this to be found in various Operation Gladio incidents during the Cold War (of one hand not knowing what the other is doing). I think we also have to constantly remind ourselves that we, as researchers operating in a truly occult area, are working with a paltry amount of facts and data, since so much remains intentionally hidden. Therefore, it is hazardous to jump to conclusions and imperative to remain open-minded.

The same dual aspect scenario can be applied to the JFK assassination.  I believe that's implicit in Anthony's reasoning.

[Rob Couteau]

11 hours ago, David Andrews said:

The same dual aspect scenario can be applied to the JFK assassination.  I believe that's implicit in Anthony's reasoning.

Yes, absolutely. As usual, Anthony is spot on.

[Anthony Thorne]

I'm sure I'll make plenty of mistakes before all this is through.

That said, more food for thought since we're mentioning the topic. 

Re the Project for a New American Century, despite the press releases that PNAC put out, I've seen no evidence that PNAC (a.) ever had any meetings under that name, or (b.) ever did anything under that name, other than post documents on a website, send letters out banging various drums, and add the title to various articles that Bill Kristol had already been printing in his WEEKLY STANDARD mag. The REBULDING AMERICA'S DEFENSES document was written in its entirety by Thomas Donnelly, who later went on to work at Lockheed Martin. In fact, if you read William Hartung's PROPHETS OF WAR, there's a chapter that occurs prior to the election of George W. Bush where the head of Lockheed is overhead talking at a weapons industry gathering, and he boasts to the group that Lockheed has written the Bush administration's future foreign policy document. He's referring to the  REBUILDING AMERICA'S DEFENSES paper.

That said, you can get a better handle on who and what PNAC actually was if you check the address listed on archival copies of their website.

The address of the Project for a New American Century - founded in 1997 - was 1150 17th Street, NW, Suite 510, Washington, D.C. 20036.

Kristol and Robert Kagan were the co-founders of PNAC. Kristol had founded THE WEEKLY STANDARD two years earlier, in September 1995. The WEEKLY STANDARD's address was 1150 17th Street, NW, Suite 505, Washington, D.C. 20036.

The address of the American Enterprise Institute (before they moved recently) through those same years was 1150 17th Street NW, Washington, D.C. 20036, and AEI preceded both THE WEEKLY STANDARD and PNAC by many decades. Kristol's father Irving had come across to AEI in the late 1970's around the same time that AEI was - according to its Rightweb profile - expanding its focus to cover 'Cold War defense policies', and various AEI/Committee on the Present Danger figures (some were members of both) went into the Reagan administration when Reagan was elected. So as far as I can tell, both the WEEKLY STANDARD and the PNAC think-tank were really just fig leaves for the American Enterprise Institute to push various ideas out into the public, the former under the cover of a print magazine, and the latter as a more official group giving nagging advice to both the Clinton and Bush administrations.

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Anthony Thorne

[W. Niederhut]

Thanks for the info, Anthony.

By "PNAC" in my above post, I was referring to the original signers of PNAC's 1997 "Declaration of Principles," and those who came to be known as the "Vulcans" by 2000.  The list was a virtual Who's Who of major players in the Bush-Cheney administration-- especially Cheney himself, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Scooter Libby, Douglas Feith, and Condoleeza Rice.

Their concepts of promoting unilateral U.S. global hegemony were originally articulated by Wolfowitz and his former Yale grad student, Scooter Libby, in 1992. Wolfowitz also lamented, at that early date, that the U.S. had missed an opportunity to depose Saddam Hussein after the first Gulf War.

BTW, one related factoid that I read in Paul O'Neill's 2005 memoir about the Bush-Cheney administration-- The Price of Loyalty...   Rumsfeld talked to O'Neill about contingency plans for a war with Iraq in the VERY FIRST Bush-Cheney cabinet meeting, in late January of 2001.

[Anthony Thorne]

All good info. Rumsfeld had been touting a ‘Shock and Awe’ strategy document in 1996, written by a former associate of his, so the planning went back a way, I believe.

http://www.dodccrp.org/files/Ullman_Shock.pdf

[David Andrews]

Who in the Clinton admin were under the PNAC influence?

Who in the military and the intelligence community in the Clinton years were influenced?

Are direct money transactions involved in becoming so philosophically influential?

Edited August 8, 2019 by David Andrews

[Anthony Thorne]

David, re your first question - James Woolsey for one, both before and after he was CIA director. Kevin Ryan’s book ANOTHER 19 has a credible grouping of folk from the military and intel community who were under neocon influence through the 90’s, but some of the surprising names I’d rank alongside or above those are ones I’m not going to write about online for now. And money came at the end of the process, but the agitated groupings and discussions that took place during the early 90’s often had broader concerns than just the financial.

[John Kozlowski]

On 8/7/2019 at 8:31 PM, Anthony Thorne said:

Dave, in the hacked document releases from earlier this year - news story linked here if any people missed it - 

https://www.cyberscoop.com/dark-overlord-releases-first-batch-of-hacked-911-files-in-effort-to-raise-bitcoin/

they had a huge amount of legal depositions taken from the Silverstein insurance filings. These were leaked and are available (though not easily) if folks hunt around. The deposit contained interviews with people involved with WTC and airline security and so on. I don't have the name handy but there was a long interview on one document with the guy from Kroll who had been overseen O'Neill's hiring and who had recommended to Silverstein that they bring him in during that period. I Googled the name of that guy. On the day of 9/11, he made (later) headlines by leaving a business meeting at the Risk Waters financial seminar - situated at the Windows of the World restaurant in WTC 1, with speakers due to begin talking at 9AM - and walking to the lift, entering, taking it down and leaving the ground floor just as the first plane hit the North Tower. So he had a luckier day that day than John O'Neill did.

The funny thing about 9/11 conspiracy research - and I'm not using the term in a derogatory sense - is that if you take the idea of compartmentalising to its further extent, the mistake/blowblack/cover-your-ass series of books on the topic, and the more conspiratorial volumes that allege that events were allowed or facilitated via a Northwoods-style plan, could both be accurate and both be correct if the latter plan was undertaken by a private group of people who had kept broader elements of the government and intelligence agencies in the dark. 

The 2011 book by Kevin Fenton, DISCONNECTING THE DOTS, is probably relevant. Fenton studied the activities of a group within the CIA's Bin Laden unit - Alec Station - and wrote a near 500 page volume just looking at what they got up to in the years and months before the attacks. After documenting the number of times they withheld evidence, failed to pass on important info that would have led to OBL's capture, and avoided following normal procedures that would have alerted other intel agencies to the Middle Eastern plot, Fenton concluded that the repeated 'errors' and 'mistakes' they made appeared to be intentional. Peter Dale Scott reviewed the book a couple of years later, and his review of that book is below. It's a long review, but working through it is a shorter experience than reading the same book, and you'll grasp the same points.

For what it's worth, the guy who signed the document that allowed 'Blind Sheik' Omar Abdel Rahman into the USA prior to the 1993 WTC bombing was Frank George Wisner II. He is the son of OSS figure Frank Gardiner Wisner - later the CIA's Deputy Director of Plans - and Wisner senior is named in Ganser's book as one of the founders of GLADIO. Frank Jr went off to work for Enron in October 1997, about a week before an Enron-financed Study Group started at Harvard  - at the Kennedy School of Government - commenced several months of work. That group was called the Catastrophic Terrorism Study Group, it was run by Philip Zelikow, who later served as the Executive Director of the 9/11 Commission, and General Jack Sheehan - named in Scott's article below as workshopping military exercises through 1997 as a precursor to a possible incursion into the Middle East - was part of the group.

An article on Frank Jr and the Blind Sheik is here.

http://news.intelwire.com/2007/06/us-secretly-met-with-followers-of-blind.html

Re Gabbard, as mentioned by Jim, it's amazing to see how she's one of the few major figures trying to push away from war, rather than towards it.

 

 

Do you have the files that were released by dark overlord? I tried to get them when they 1st released them but the download wouldn’t unzip for some reason. 

[Anthony Thorne]

John, yes, I have all of those, but they're incredible unwieldy to either share or even browse and investigate. There are many thousands of documents and with the most recent batch to look at them I have to send them to a Microsoft email address that can read the file format, then download the attachment from there and read. It takes ages. They're also only labelled numerically, although there's an Excel sheet floating about where someone entered the title of each. 

Sorry for drifting away from the thread topic. One bizarre tidbit. In one of the files, a lawyer for Silverstein noted that a security expert had told them that aircraft cockpit doors could easily be opened (at the time) with the key from a hotel minibar. But I've read less than 1% of the total of the files, despite spending a couple of afternoons browsing through them.

[Michael Clark]

3 hours ago, Anthony Thorne said:

John, yes, I have all of those, but they're incredible unwieldy to either share or even browse and investigate. There are many thousands of documents and with the most recent batch to look at them I have to send them to a Microsoft email address that can read the file format, then download the attachment from there and read. It takes ages. They're also only labelled numerically, although there's an Excel sheet floating about where someone entered the title of each. 

 

Anthony, I would like to at least know what this entails, first hand. I woul like to be able to make these more accesssible and shareable.it may turn out to be a project upon which some progress could be made.

[John Kozlowski]

4 hours ago, Anthony Thorne said:

John, yes, I have all of those, but they're incredible unwieldy to either share or even browse and investigate. There are many thousands of documents and with the most recent batch to look at them I have to send them to a Microsoft email address that can read the file format, then download the attachment from there and read. It takes ages. They're also only labelled numerically, although there's an Excel sheet floating about where someone entered the title of each. 

Sorry for drifting away from the thread topic. One bizarre tidbit. In one of the files, a lawyer for Silverstein noted that a security expert had told them that aircraft cockpit doors could easily be opened (at the time) with the key from a hotel minibar. But I've read less than 1% of the total of the files, despite spending a couple of afternoons browsing through them.

No problem. I was hoping a website would do the dirty work and post the files but I still haven’t really found one. Thanks