NATO's Secret Armies, Operation Gladio and JFK

[Anthony Thorne]

Michael to avoid moving off topic I’ll PM you over the weekend. Certainly sounds like something to discuss. I have some further posts to make on the overall subject topic too.

[Paul Brancato]

17 hours ago, Anthony Thorne said:

David, re your first question - James Woolsey for one, both before and after he was CIA director. Kevin Ryan’s book ANOTHER 19 has a credible grouping of folk from the military and intel community who were under neocon influence through the 90’s, but some of the surprising names I’d rank alongside or above those are ones I’m not going to write about online for now. And money came at the end of the process, but the agitated groupings and discussions that took place during the early 90’s often had broader concerns than just the financial.

Anthony - do you have a link to the PD Scott review you mentioned?

[David Andrews]

On 8/8/2019 at 5:20 PM, Anthony Thorne said:

David, re your first question - James Woolsey for one, both before and after he was CIA director. Kevin Ryan’s book ANOTHER 19 has a credible grouping of folk from the military and intel community who were under neocon influence through the 90’s, but some of the surprising names I’d rank alongside or above those are ones I’m not going to write about online for now. And money came at the end of the process, but the agitated groupings and discussions that took place during the early 90’s often had broader concerns than just the financial.

Thanks.  It's difficult to imagine that ideology, and not money, is the motivator for actions such as PNAC's.  But, as the wicked senator tells Michael on this topic in Godfather II, "Some people have to play their little games." 

I shouldn't be surprised - it was this way in the Cold War also.  

Edited August 10, 2019 by David Andrews

[Anthony Thorne]

Michael to avoid moving off topic I’ll PM you over the weekend. Certainly sounds like something to discuss. I have some further posts to make on the overall subject topic too.

[David Andrews]

21 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Anthony - do you have a link to the PD Scott review you mentioned?

Is that this?

https://apjjf.org/2012/10/12/Peter-Dale-Scott/3723/article.html

Wondering if this bit applies to Trump's anti-Mexican propaganda and implied encouragement to other racism:

Terror war in its global context should perhaps be seen as the latest stage of the age-long secular spread of transurban civilization into areas of mostly rural resistance -- areas where conventional forms of warfare, for either geographic or cultural reasons, prove inconclusive.

Blast 'em with the paranoia ray in Dayton!

Edited August 10, 2019 by David Andrews

[Anthony Thorne]

Yes, that’s the review.

 

 

 

 

[Rob Couteau]

12 hours ago, David Andrews said:

It's difficult to imagine that ideology, and not money, is the motivator for actions [...]

I shouldn't be surprised - it was this way in the Cold War also.  

I've often wondered over this myself: Money or ideology? During the Gladio days, esp in Italy, some of the operators, even ones high up the ladder, were true believers, to a point that one could justifiably speak of a kind of religious zealotry against "Communism." (I have a friend who interviewed a couple of these fellows decades ago in Italy, and he said their eyes would tear up as if they were speaking of a holy cause.) But I've always felt that the puppet masters at the top understand that money is the true religion, and that political ideology was merely a tool or excuse to achieve this. (E.g, by stoking the religious fervor in their underlings.) As just one example: There are many anecdotes, some recorded in Philip Willan's book, regarding Licio Gelli's fundamental apolitical nature: That politics were, for him, merely a means to an end. I'd be curious on hearing from other members about what they think of all this.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Rob Couteau

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Rob Couteau said:

I've often wondered over this myself: Money or ideology? During the Gladio days, esp in Italy, some of the operators, even ones high up the ladder, were true believers, to a point that one could justifiably speak of a kind of religious zealotry against "Communism." (I have a friend who interviewed a couple of these fellows decades ago in Italy, and he said their eyes would tear up as if they were speaking of a holy cause.) But I've always felt that the puppet masters at the top understand that money is the true religion, and that political ideology was merely a tool or excuse to achieve this. (E.g, by stoking the religious fervor in their underlings.) As just one example: There are many anecdotes, some recorded in Philip Willan's book, regarding Licio Gelli's fundamental apolitical nature: That politics were, for him, merely a means to an end. I'd be curious on hearing from other members about what they think of all this.

Rob,

      The Dulles brothers-- John Foster and Allen-- were sons of a Presbyterian minister who, certainly, shared an almost messianic, religious zeal for defeating communism. But, in a manner that sociologist Max Weber would have appreciated, they were also pillars of capitalism-- Wall Street lawyers who sat on the boards of corporations like the United Fruit Company, (while conspiring to overthrow socialist democracies in Latin America.)

       The Dulles brothers were motivated by a strange, genocidal zeal for both money and (Protestant) ideology.

[Rob Couteau]

8 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

both money and (Protestant) ideology.

Good point - some characters had both. Certainly, John Foster Dulles was this way. Allen, I'm not so sure. I think he was operating on a level of pathology that may have transcended both money and ideology. In fact, David Talbot portrays Allen as someone who didn't care much about money. (Perhaps his bag was pure power and the sadistic use of it. There is that haunting story in Devil's Chessboard about him watching a sibling drown and doing nothing to prevent it.) Which might mean there were four possible typologies driving the Power Elite: money; ideology; both; neither. But I think the really savvy players at the very pinnacle had few illusions about the reality of the all-mighty dollar. PS: To be clear, by "ideology" I mean political ideology, which may be so ardent that it resembles a religious fundamentalism, but I wasn't really speaking about religious ideology per se.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Rob Couteau

[James DiEugenio]

Rob:

As I thought would happen, your article is now number one at K and K.

Congratulations pal. And thanks.

 

[Jeff Carter]

Peter Dale Scott refers to the “Safari Club”, and he has discussed it in some detail in his books (i.e. “The American Deep State”). The Safari Club was a Team B type operation which brought together US, European and Mid-East interests is support of covert operations which had been curtailed due to the Congressional investigations of the mid-70s. Alexandre de Marenches of the right-wing Pinay Circle was instrumental to the founding of the Club, linking the Gladio networks to Saudi and Gulf State intelligence operations in common cause. BCCI was one result, but also eventually creating the link between US deep state interests and Wahabbist  jihadist armies who would serve as mercenary shock troops for western interests in Afghanistan, the Balkans, Iraq, Libya, and Syria. The largest concentration of jihadist forces in the world today is Idlib province in Syria, under the protection of NATO’s Turkey, and western NGOs which couch any military operations against these groupings of largely foreign UN-designated terrorist groups as human rights violations. Similarly, China’s efforts to blunt jihadist infiltration in Xinjiang province has been depicted as gross human-rights violations. A lot of bad faith to go around.

[Rob Couteau]

On 8/11/2019 at 1:47 PM, James DiEugenio said:

number one at K and K.

That's great news! Thanks for making it happen, Jim.

[Rob Couteau]

On 8/11/2019 at 4:04 PM, Jeff Carter said:

A lot of bad faith to go around.

Thanks for this info, Jeff.

[W. Niederhut]

3 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

Peter Dale Scott refers to the “Safari Club”, and he has discussed it in some detail in his books (i.e. “The American Deep State”). The Safari Club was a Team B type operation which brought together US, European and Mid-East interests is support of covert operations which had been curtailed due to the Congressional investigations of the mid-70s. Alexandre de Marenches of the right-wing Pinay Circle was instrumental to the founding of the Club, linking the Gladio networks to Saudi and Gulf State intelligence operations in common cause. BCCI was one result, but also eventually creating the link between US deep state interests and Wahabbist  jihadist armies who would serve as mercenary shock troops for western interests in Afghanistan, the Balkans, Iraq, Libya, and Syria. The largest concentration of jihadist forces in the world today is Idlib province in Syria, under the protection of NATO’s Turkey, and western NGOs which couch any military operations against these groupings of largely foreign UN-designated terrorist groups as human rights violations. Similarly, China’s efforts to blunt jihadist infiltration in Xinjiang province has been depicted as gross human-rights violations. A lot of bad faith to go around.

        This Safari Club history seems to get to the heart of the matter regarding CIA Operation Timber Sycamore in Syria-- and combined U.S., NATO, Mossad, and Saudi ops since the days of the Soviet Afghan War, including (dare I say it?) the 9/11 op.

 

[Ron Bulman]

Bump.  Important subject.  Many have no idea what the Safari Club is/was.  I've read little about it myself, how it relates to Gladio.