The Motorcade Puzzle

[Steve Thomas]

12 hours ago, John Butler said:

 Then came the Pilot Car.  In this frame notice that the 5 motorbikes are very close to the Pilot Car.

As I said, it is a bit difficult to see.  Patsy Paschall is filming from the Old Court House and the parade is just about there.  There is the 3 Advanced motorcycles in information and behind and near the Pilot Car is the 5 Lead Motorcycles.

 

John,

Actually, the Pilot Car would not be seen in any of the Dealey Plaza photographs.

The Portal to Texas History

Report from Charles Batchelor to Chief J. E. Curry, November 30, 1963] Page: 13 of 70

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338584/m1/13/?q=Lumpkin

It held four men: Lumpkin, Whitmeyer, Turner and Senkel.

Steve Thomas

[Mark Tyler]

21 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Who is the shadowy figure in the Bothun photo walking steathily toward the Book Depository direction behind the white stucco wall and under the small trees on the right of the Pergola?

You say you think you know who this is.

I think the dark shadowy figure could be the policeman Joe Marshall Smith who was moving towards the knoll at that time.  Due to the nature of the photo it's impossible to say for sure, but judging from the size I suspect the figure is walking along the road outside the TSBD (slightly obscured by the shrubs and trees).  It may also be Billy Lovelady or Bill Shelley who were also moving briskly westwards towards the knoll area at that time.

[Mark Tyler]

20 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Joe,

In my personal opinion, this is the person popularly known as Black Dog man.

You can follow his progress as leaves the knoll and walks over in the direction of the TSBD. As to his identity, I have no idea. I suspect a photographic technique has been applied to the various pictures to make him and his clothes completely black in all the photos where everyone else's skin tones show up perfectly.

The black dog man does look very strange in the Betzner and Willis photos.  Josiah Thompson interviewed Marilyn Sitzman back in 1966 which may help identify the person:

http://the-puzzle-palace.com/files/sitzman.htm

She said:

"And another thing that I remember this day: there was a colored couple. I figure they were between 18 and 21, a boy and a girl, sitting on a bench, just almost, oh, parallel with me, on my right side, close to the fence."

"And they were eating their lunch, 'cause they had little lunch sacks, and they were drinking coke. The main reason I remember 'em is, after the last shot I recall hearing and the car went down under the triple underpass there, I heard a crash of glass, and I looked over there, and the kids had thrown down their coke bottles, just threw them down and just started running towards the back and I ... Of course, I don't see anything unusual in that because everybody else was running that way, 'cause when I look over on my left side, the people on the hill were all running back the same way too."

If this couple continued moving briskly behind the pergola and walked eastwards in front of the TSBD then the shadowy figure could be one or both of these two people as the timing is about right (20-30 seconds to move around the pergola seems reasonable).

[Mark Tyler]

17 hours ago, John Butler said:

Just a bit of nit  picking here.  I may have mentioned this before.  The car you have marked as No. 1 is the Pilot Car.  This was actually the No. 2 car in the motorcade for most of the trip.  The Advance Car was No. 1.  This vehicle left the parade at about Main and Market St. If my memory is correct.

You are right John, in terms of numbering the cars sequentially the advanced car comes first.  However, because that car doesn't appear in the animation the other numbers all get promoted by 1 which causes this confusion.  Because the animation also includes other actors such as witnesses and the theorised dictabelt microphone, there will always be a discrepancy between the official motorcade vehicle numbers and the numbers used as identification in the animation.

[Mark Tyler]

15 hours ago, John Butler said:

As I said, it is a bit difficult to see.  Patsy Paschall is filming from the Old Court House and the parade is just about there.  There is the 3 Advanced motorcycles in information and behind and near the Pilot Car is the 5 Lead Motorcycles.

This is a tricky puzzle to clear up as there doesn't seem to be a complete film sequence with all of the bikes as they entered Dealey Plaza.  I think the solution is the so called "Croft 1" photo:

This shows the 3 bikes in front of the Dallas Police lead car on Main Street, which makes sense as 2 of the bikes broke from the group of 5 for some reason as they approached Dealey Plaza from Main Street.  Todd Vaughan mentioned this break in formation on page 5 of his very well researched motorcade reference:

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/M Disk/Motorcade Route/Item 15.pdf

Here is a screenshot from the animation which shows the Croft 1 photo and where all of the bikes are at that point:

[Mark Tyler]

15 hours ago, John Butler said:

Mark has done an amazing job of assembling witness information.  He has 284 witnesses that I would suppose were along Main, Houston, and Elm Streets during the assassination.

I tried counting the number of people on Elm Street (from TSBD to Triple Underpass) and just in front of the Court Records building.  My count came out two ways.  First with 167 people counted where there was no conflict between films and photos of that area.  And, 279 people in those areas along Elm Street and in front of the Court Records building.  I would estimate about 400 people if you count from the Court Records Building to the intersection of Main and Houston.  (that's just a guess)

284 and 279 are about the same.  However, there were people I missed such as those in the motorcade vehicles, those between the Court Records Building and the intersection of Main and Houston, and Main Street.  If my memory is correct Roger Craig said he heard a shot while standing on Main Street.  There were a small number of others.

Thanks John.  I think the crime scene witnesses are very important and are worthy of more study and analysis.  Although superficially the witnesses seem to contradict each other, I think it's possible to see beyond this and make progress.  For example many witnesses missed the first or last shot (or shots), which means they heard fewer shots in total than were actually fired.  The clear sign of this is when a witness describes the whole shooting as lasting just 5-6 seconds, whereas other witnesses think it all lasted at least 10 seconds.

Although I have yet to come to any final conclusions regarding total shots fired or the conspiracy angle, if there were three shots fired in just 5-6 seconds as so many witnesses say then there must have been a second gunman.  A primitive bolt action gun could not be operated, aimed, and fired three times in 5-6 seconds (especially with two of the shots being accurate enough to hit their intended target).  In other words the only witness supported lone gunman theory is if the shots were fired at: Z220, Z310, and Z400.  A fourth shot at Z280 or Z190 (as many witnesses suggest) requires a second gun firing, and a probable conspiracy.

[John Butler]

4 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

John,

Actually, the Pilot Car would not be seen in any of the Dealey Plaza photographs.

The Portal to Texas History

Report from Charles Batchelor to Chief J. E. Curry, November 30, 1963] Page: 13 of 70

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338584/m1/13/?q=Lumpkin

It held four men: Lumpkin, Whitmeyer, Turner and Senkel.

Steve Thomas

I'm sorry Steve,

That's a brain malfunction.  I should have said Lead Car.  I often mix those up when not thinking.  It's a big blooper on my part.  The Lead Car, Pilot Car, and Advance Car sometimes gets confused if I'm not concentrating.  Because of that when I work on the presidential motorcade I generaly keep the Presidential Schematic Motorcade Listing by Todd Wayne Vaughan handy.  I'll go back an edit that post.

The Pilot Car is seen in various films and photos generally in the area of Main Street or the intersection of Main and Houston Streets.  Here is a good example from the AMIPA film.  There is the black Advance Car and the white Pilot Car behind.

Thanks again Steve.  The correct order of the motorcade has been restored in that post.

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by John Butler

[Mark Tyler]

15 hours ago, Eddy Bainbridge said:

Hi Mark, I am delighted you have continued your research but intrigued by what I perceive is a change in your perceptions. Please could you confirm : You believe the evidence suggests more than three shots (six shots)? You believe the Dictabelt recording is indeed recorded around the right time, and within the location of the assassination but doesn't match the films? 

The exact number of shots is a tricky one to judge.  While I was studying what each of the witnesses said in 1963/4 I came to the conclusion that there were three bursts of noise.  Some witnesses are certain that each burst of noise was just a single shot, whereas others are convinced that multiple shots were fired in each section.

For example there is AJ Millican who reported 8 shots in 3 parts: 3-2-3.  He tells us that the shooting started just as the limo passed him which was Z190-Z220.  I think the 2nd burst was Z280-Z330, with the final burst Z370-Z430.  Some witnesses missed the first burst, and some missed the final burst, which is why the witnesses disagree so much about the shots and the total duration (those that say the shooting lasted just 5-6 seconds missed the first or last burst).

By contrast Charles Brehm agreed with the timing of the three bursts I have suggested, but he said there was only one shot in each section (which is perhaps persuasive as he was a soldier during the war and very familiar with gunshots).  In other words I am uncertain about the total shot numbers, but the general pattern of noise is clear (with 3-5 seconds pause between each of the three bursts).

The motorbike noise on the dictabelt was probably recorded in the vicinity of the Trade Mart.  The timing of the motorcade sirens on Channel 1 about 3-4 minutes after the assassination is exactly the right time for when they turned off Stemmons Freeway, passing the Trade Mart to go to the hospital.  One of the reasons it couldn't have been recorded in Dealey Plaza was that it didn't pick up the siren that was set off by the Secret Service follow up car just after the head shot.  This siren was set off by Sam Kinney who said:

"At this time the second shot was fired and I observed hair flying from the right side of his head. With this, simultaneously with the President’s car, we stepped on the gas. I released the siren at that time"

In other words he set the siren off in the seconds following Z313, but this siren doesn't appear on the Channel 1 recording so I deduce that the microphone could not have been located in Dealey Plaza.

I understand why people are keen to have an audio recording as that would immediately resolve the issue of how many shots were fired and in what sequence, to a very high level of scientific certainty.  One of the largest controversies about this case would be immediately resolved.  Sadly I don't believe there is any audio recording of the events in Dealey Plaza so we must revert to old school crime scene investigation with a focus on the witnesses and physical evidence.

[John Butler]

27 minutes ago, Mark Tyler said:

Thanks John.  I think the crime scene witnesses are very important and are worthy of more study and analysis.  Although superficially the witnesses seem to contradict each other, I think it's possible to see beyond this and make progress.  For example many witnesses missed the first or last shot (or shots), which means they heard fewer shots in total than were actually fired.  The clear sign of this is when a witness describes the whole shooting as lasting just 5-6 seconds, whereas other witnesses think it all lasted at least 10 seconds.

Although I have yet to come to any final conclusions regarding total shots fired or the conspiracy angle, if there were three shots fired in just 5-6 seconds as so many witnesses say then there must have been a second gunman.  A primitive bolt action gun could not be operated, aimed, and fired three times in 5-6 seconds (especially with two of the shots being accurate enough to hit their intended target).  In other words the only witness supported lone gunman theory is if the shots were fired at: Z220, Z310, and Z400.  A fourth shot at Z280 or Z190 (as many witnesses suggest) requires a second gun firing, and a probable conspiracy.

Mark,

I am really pleased with your work on the witnesses.  You have people I have not heard of before.  I use the Alphabetical List of Witnesses and Testimony from McAdams, the JFK 216 Witnesses to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, and The John F. Kennedy Assassination Home Page- Warren Commission Hearings: Testimony Index.

You have people that are not on these lists.  Great work.

[Steve Thomas]

3 hours ago, John Butler said:

  There is the black Advance Car and the white Pilot Car behind.

John,

No sweat.

Based on what he told the WC, I suspect that this black car was being driven by Purdue Lawrence, Captain of the Traffic Prevention Bureau. He told them that he was trying to stay a couple of blocks ahead of Lumpkin's Pilot Car. He was alone, and Lumpkin's car had four people in it.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/lawrence.htm

Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you in charge of any particular department?
Captain LAWRENCE. Traffic at this particular time. I am in charge of the accident prevention bureau of the Dallas Police Department, but my specific assignment was traffic control for the Presidential motorcade.

“...when the Presidential plane arrived and President Kennedy got off of the plane, I saw that there was going to be a brief ceremony there, and I knew that Chief Lumpkin was going to---I had been told was going to be ahead of this motorcade I got in my car and tried to be a few blocks ahead of him to make sure that everybody was on their assignments,... . As I came up to many of these intersections--I slowed my car down and I was in uniform, but I was driving a plain car which I drive, and I told the officers to keep the traffic in back of me moving and not let any vehicles cross because I could hear Chief Curry on channel 2 giving the location of the motorcade from time to time, and I knew a few blocks ahead of him would be Chief Lumpkin, and I knew that I would have to stay considerably ahead of him. Although I was not given this assignment--I proceeded on this route, and I followed it on down to the Trade Mart.

Steve Thomas

 

 

[Richard Price]

Steve or anyone else who may have information about the "advance" car.  I can't help myself in asking if this is a definitely known fact that the car pictured above is the "advance car".  The car is a Cadillac.  In the quotation above, Lawrence says he was in uniform and driving a "plain" car.  To me this means an unmarked, generally one color, sedan of police department issue.  The use of a Cadillac would seem out of the norm.  Police departments generally would not have any use for them unless maybe the chief was extravagant in the automobile he used.  Lawrence seems to be saying this is the car he drives in the performance of his duties and listening to the police radio for Chief Curry or others to update locations.  To me, something seems amiss in this identification.

[John Butler]

1 hour ago, Richard Price said:

Steve or anyone else who may have information about the "advance" car.  I can't help myself in asking if this is a definitely known fact that the car pictured above is the "advance car".  The car is a Cadillac.  In the quotation above, Lawrence says he was in uniform and driving a "plain" car.  To me this means an unmarked, generally one color, sedan of police department issue.  The use of a Cadillac would seem out of the norm.  Police departments generally would not have any use for them unless maybe the chief was extravagant in the automobile he used.  Lawrence seems to be saying this is the car he drives in the performance of his duties and listening to the police radio for Chief Curry or others to update locations.  To me, something seems amiss in this identification.

I base this information on the AMIPA film and Presidential Motorcade Schematic Listing by Todd Wayne Vaughan.  It is a black 1959 Cadillac hardtop.  Or, at least I think it is a 1959 model.

As far as something seeming to be amiss, one needs to understand that this is the Dallas Police Department which was said to the most corrupt in the US in those days. 

[John Butler]

6 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

John,

No sweat.

Thanks Steve,

It is to me.  It seems like I have made this same mistake before.  And, if I am not more careful I'll probably do it again.  Learned wrong stays wrong is an old saying in the Educational field.

[Mark Tyler]

9 hours ago, John Butler said:

Mark,

I am really pleased with your work on the witnesses.  You have people I have not heard of before.  I use the Alphabetical List of Witnesses and Testimony from McAdams, the JFK 216 Witnesses to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, and The John F. Kennedy Assassination Home Page- Warren Commission Hearings: Testimony Index.

You have people that are not on these lists.  Great work.

Thanks John, I'm glad you find the list useful.  There are more witnesses that I chose not to include because they were so vague about events, but if you discover any useful witness not on my list please let me know and I will add the details.

For the benefit of people who haven't read my handbook, here are the sources I used when compiling the witness names:

• John McAdams - https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shots.htm
• Josiah Thompson - "Six Seconds In Dallas" appendix A, p.252 https://archive.org/details/SixSecondsInDallas
• Mike Russ - http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/wit.htm
• Pat Speer - Chapters 5-9 http://www.patspeer.com/chapter5%3Athejigsawpuzzle
• Stewart Galanor - https://www.history-matters.com/analysis/witness/index.htm

[John Butler]

12 minutes ago, Mark Tyler said:

Thanks John, I'm glad you find the list useful.  There are more witnesses that I chose not to include because they were so vague about events, but if you discover any useful witness not on my list please let me know and I will add the details.

For the benefit of people who haven't read my handbook, here are the sources I used when compiling the witness names:

• John McAdams - https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shots.htm
• Josiah Thompson - "Six Seconds In Dallas" appendix A, p.252 https://archive.org/details/SixSecondsInDallas
• Mike Russ - http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/wit.htm
• Pat Speer - Chapters 5-9 http://www.patspeer.com/chapter5%3Athejigsawpuzzle
• Stewart Galanor - https://www.history-matters.com/analysis/witness/index.htm

Thanks Mark,

I'll check these out tomorrow when I am fresher.  Once again thanks.