EVIDENCE FOR HARVEY AND LEE (Please debate the specifics right here. Don't just claim someone else has debunked it!)

[John Butler]

John K,

I don't have the book.  I need to know more info on Leon Voitier.  That info needs to connect to Aminthe Voitier.  I couldn't find anything from 1938 to future times.

Unless Mistaken Identity author or Jim's well-known author can provide more info on Leon Voitier then I will simply dismiss it until such times as more proof is availalble.

Back to my Bizarre Theory on the disappearance of Real Marge.  Why would she agree to live and die as Adminthe Voitier in this theory?  To protect her true son Lee Harvey Oswald. 

In this theory, I suspect the whole clan (Oswalds, Claveries, Voitiers, and others) of secrecy as regards the info we are looking for about the two Marges.  This would be to protect Lee Oswald who was alive until a much later time.  Kept alive so someone in the clan would not let the cat out of the bag.  Then perhaps in the mid to late 1970s Lee Oswald could be disposed of with an explanation that he died in the line of duty.

 

[Jim Hargrove]

Here are pictures of the two “Marguerites.”  The one on the left shows phony Marguerite in what John A. says is a 1954 photo.  It is the earliest picture of Mysterious Marge I can think of.

The photo on the right is definitely a 1957 image of the real Marguerite.  Note how real Marge has flat, horizontal eyebrows while phony Marge has very slanted eyebrows.  In most later images, those slanted brows are partly obscured by glasses.

John K:  I found a couple of Oswald family trees online, but none of them seemed to include the Voitiers.

[John Butler]

41 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Here are pictures of the two “Marguerites.”  The one on the left shows phony Marguerite in what John A. says is a 1954 photo.  It is the earliest picture of Mysterious Marge I can think of.

The photo on the right is definitely a 1957 image of the real Marguerite.  Note how real Marge has flat, horizontal eyebrows while phony Marge has very slanted eyebrows.  In most later images, those slanted brows are partly obscured by glasses.

John K:  I found a couple of Oswald family trees online, but none of them seemed to include the Voitiers.

Here is another comparison.  I don't have age comparisons, but it seems to validate the above photo.

There is little resemblance here, but there is an age difference.  But, not much.

Here's Mysterious Marge toward the end of her life.

Does she look 73 or 83?   I say 73, but could be wrong.  People carrying around extra weight always look younger with less wrinkles to me.  

41 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

The one on the left shows phony Marguerite in what John A. says is a 1954 photo.  It is the earliest picture of Mysterious Marge I can think of.

 No one with Mysterious Marge's appearance is seen in many early photos concerning Real Marge.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by John Butler

[John Kowalski]

21 hours ago, John Butler said:

I don't have the book.  I need to know more info on Leon Voitier.  That info needs to connect to Aminthe Voitier.  I couldn't find anything from 1938 to future times.

Have a number of things I want to research but it will all have to wait until the pandemic is over and archives open. Mistaken Identity lacks credibility but now I am wondering about Aminthe and Leon Voitier.

Edited April 21, 2020 by John Kowalski

[John Kowalski]

John and Jim:

Have you been to this website? It has Marguerite pics.

http://oswald-photos.blogspot.com/2012/09/marguerite-claverie-oswald-1907-1981.html

[John Butler]

39 minutes ago, John Kowalski said:

Have a number of things I want to research but it will all have to wait until the pandemic is over and archives open. Mistaken Identity lacks credibility but now I am wondering about Aminthe and Leon Voitier.

Be glad to hear what you find.  There's new pics on that site I haven't seen.  Thanks.

If I am not seeing things then Real Marge seems to disappear in 1956-58.  And, Mysterious Marge seems to appear about then.  That is if I'm am seeing things correctly.

[John Kowalski]

You are right, looking at the photos you can see that real Marguerite disappears and the fake one appears in the photo at the deprtment store.

[John Butler]

18 minutes ago, John Kowalski said:

You are right, looking at the photos you can see that real Marguerite disappears and the fake one appears in the photo at the deprtment store.

One of the things that needs to be looked into is when did Marquerite Claverie Oswald become a nurse.  Any record I see of her is for some sort of low paying job in Dept. stores or some such.  On the other hand when did Mysterious Marge become a nurse?  At $10 per day?

There seems to be something here.  I don't think Louisiana or Texas just allowed anyone to become a Practical Nurse.  There had to be training and a license issued.

When the Marguerites, either one, do that?  To me, this is an important question, particularly as regards Mysterious Marge..

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by John Butler

[John Kowalski]

22 hours ago, John Butler said:

One of the things that needs to be looked into is when did Marquerite Claverie Oswald become a nurse.  Any record I see of her is for some sort of low paying job in Dept. stores or some such.  On the other hand when did Mysterious Marge become a nurse?  At $10 per day?

I agree. Her employment and training records have to be located, if they exist at all. Someone she worked for as a practical nurse has to be found and interviewed. This will be difficult as many are most likely deceased by now.

[John Butler]

7 minutes ago, John Kowalski said:

I agree. Her employment and training records have to be located, if they exist at all. Someone she worked for as a practical nurse has to be found and interviewed. This will be difficult as many are most likely deceased by now.

John,

The reason I say this is I know of no employment of Real Marge as a nurse.  Mysterious Marge is photographed in a nurse's uniform on several occasions.

Was she a real nurse or pretending to be one?  Did she say she was a nurse just to have a job?  How would she haven't gotten away with it if she wasn't a nurse.  Help from the agency?

The reason I say this is important is that the only other characters in this charade are the Voitier sisters, one a nurse and the other worked at a hospital and could possibly fake being a nurse.  But, there age prohibits them from being M. Marge. 

Was M. Marge just babysitting and faked being a nurse in uniform to get more money?  If so she must have been a poor one.  Remember the condition of Harvey in the early 50s, similar to a starved out refugee. 

[David Josephs]

On 4/22/2020 at 10:14 AM, John Kowalski said:

I agree. Her employment and training records have to be located, if they exist at all. Someone she worked for as a practical nurse has to be found and interviewed. This will be difficult as many are most likely deceased by now.

So there are a few docs that claim she was known as a nurse...  She must have been UNLICENSED and simply working as a care-giver...

The text underneath is from her testimony...  As John B says... Lee's mother was not a nurse.. ever.

 

On 4/21/2020 at 9:53 AM, John Kowalski said:

Have a number of things I want to research but it will all have to wait until the pandemic is over and archives open. Mistaken Identity lacks credibility but now I am wondering about Aminthe and Leon Voitier.

This may have been posted...  but 45 year old AMINTHE was a Nurse in 1940... FWIW...

Like Harvey, I believe these jobs were provided by those overseeing this "project"
DJ

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by David Josephs

[John Butler]

41 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

So there are a few docs that claim she was known as a nurse...  She must have been UNLICENSED and simply working as a care-giver...

Thanks David for the comment and info.  That pretty much agrees with my thinking.  The doc says she is a nurse, but that's not clear.  She says she was on the "OB case" for wealthy people.  I don't know what that means.  OB in medical terms refers to obstetrics.  Picking up a complex, new skill at the mid to later stages of life is difficult.  Unless she already had medical training then I would say she claimed to be a nurse and was simply a care giver as you say.

So, in your opinion the Voitier sisters may have something to do with this "project".  I think there may be something here.  It may be a little early for OSS/CIA connections, but not ONI connections.  Because of Dutz Murret, I believe there was an early connection to the ONI in New Orleans to the Claverie, Voitier, and Oswald families.  Dutz's criminal activities on the waterfront would have brought him into contact with, perhaps many government agencies, but certainly the FBI and ONI. 

I keep forgetting that in the 1920s and 1930s the FBI was the major government intelligence agency with authority to investigate internal security matters.  The ONI was the other important agency responsible for foreign intelligence.

I just noticed the date on the doc.  The FBI sure was a rapid and thorough investigation agency directly after the assassination.  It's is if they already had the info.    

[David Josephs]

Think of all the houses she is buying and selling along the way....  yet complaining constantly of no money, no means, no help....

Her lawsuit was against KING CANDY... the woman never had anything to do with clothing stores....

2 minutes ago, John Butler said:

I keep forgetting that in the 1920s and 1930s the FBI was the major government intelligence agency with authority to investigate internal security matters.  The ONI was the other important agency responsible for foreign intelligence

John - there were scores of intelligence agencies within the military spying domestically as well as outside the US...  The FBI created the SIS in 1940 to do Western Hemisphere intelligence...

The FBI spent more time with Hoover vendetta's than actual investigation of actual crimes...  imho

[John Butler]

2 hours ago, David Josephs said:

The FBI spent more time with Hoover vendetta's than actual investigation of actual crimes...  imho

Since I have been studying the Kennedy Assassination I have come to believe that the FBI is more of a political enforcement agency and involvled with internal security enforcement than a criminal investigation agency.  Hoover gave a pass to organized crime and went after sensational criminals like John Dillinger and others for the gains it would give him.  His cover up of the Kennedy death is a good example of the history of his direction of the FBI. 

Today commentators keep talking about the crooked FBI leaders, but the good, honest, hard working rank and file.  I don't believe their were any of those associated in investigating the Kennedy murder.

[Jim Hargrove]

Mysterious Marge® apparently took offense when William Manchester called her a “shifter of bodies and bedpans” in his recently published book, The Death of a President.  Marge, according to UPI, said she was a “practical nurse,” which she described as a “high calling.” My bet, same as DJ, is that she wasn’t licensed by anyone.  It would require too much background information. From the 1/25/67 UPI story: