The assassination of JFK: Who was the Mastermind?

[Douglas Caddy]

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/09/phillip-f-nelson/the-assassination-of-jfk-who-was-the-mastermind-johnson-or-dulles/

[Guest Rich Pope]

James Jesus Angleton (The Good Shepherd) was convinced there was a mole in the CIA.  In fact, it was all consuming for him.  So he developed a plan.  In the weekly intelligence reports that the president and a select few would receive each week, Angleton placed a unique identifier hidden within each report.  In essence, Angleton made each report that looked on the surface to be identical, be unique.  After these reports were given, Angleton checked his intelligence contacts and discovered there was a leak of high security intelligence information.  The leak came from the reports he prepared and the person leaking the reports was none other than JFK himself.  Angleton considered this no less than treason and in Angleton's mind warranted the death penalty.  

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Rich Pope said:

The leak came from the reports he prepared and the person leaking the reports was none other than JFK himself.  Angleton considered this no less than treason and in Angleton's mind warranted the death penalty.  

And thus he orchestrated a massive, convoluted, multi-agency assassination plot, one involving so many unnecessary risks that it almost defies comprehension, and carried it out so ineptly that it required a massive, convoluted, multi-agency cover-up?  Yeah, I'll bet that's what a Presidential assassination orchestrated by a CIA mastermind would look like.  Yeah, I'll bet that's how a CIA mastermind would choose to deal with a President who was leaking his reports.  Yeah, I'll bet LBJ, Dulles and Hoover would say "Great idea - sign us up!"

I wish someone would revive the Mafia theory, which is at least pretty straightforward in terms of motive and means.  In fact, I wish Douglas would get back on the alien theme, which is at least kind of fun.  As I've said repeatedly, JFK was despised by so many people, and so many people stood to benefit from his assassination, that it is child's play to weave superficially plausible - but only superficially plausible - assassination theories.

[Douglas Caddy]

Lance: I posted fairly often about Alien theme in this Watergate topic.

 

[Guest Rich Pope]

On 9/28/2019 at 4:15 PM, Lance Payette said:

And thus he orchestrated a massive, convoluted, multi-agency assassination plot, one involving so many unnecessary risks that it almost defies comprehension, and carried it out so ineptly that it required a massive, convoluted, multi-agency cover-up?  Yeah, I'll bet that's what a Presidential assassination orchestrated by a CIA mastermind would look like.  Yeah, I'll bet that's how a CIA mastermind would choose to deal with a President who was leaking his reports.  Yeah, I'll bet LBJ, Dulles and Hoover would say "Great idea - sign us up!"

I wish someone would revive the Mafia theory, which is at least pretty straightforward in terms of motive and means.  In fact, I wish Douglas would get back on the alien theme, which is at least kind of fun.  As I've said repeatedly, JFK was despised by so many people, and so many people stood to benefit from his assassination, that it is child's play to weave superficially plausible - but only superficially plausible - assassination theories.

I didn't say James Jesus Angleton orchestrated the assassination of JFK.  I simply said Angleton considered JFK to have committed treason.  In your zealousness to make me look bad, you put words in my mouth or put forth scenarios I never even considered.   The assassination was a team effort.  This has been shown by many competent researchers and it doesn't need to be rehashed here since you can find it in other threads on the forum.

[Paul Jolliffe]

16 hours ago, Rich Pope said:

I didn't say James Jesus Angleton orchestrated the assassination of JFK.  I simply said Angleton considered JFK to have committed treason.  In your zealousness to make me look bad, you put words in my mouth or put forth scenarios I never even considered.   The assassination was a team effort.  This has been shown by many competent researchers and it doesn't need to be rehashed here since you can find it in other threads on the forum.

Rich,

I strongly suspect that Eugene Rostow was speaking for the sponsors (and apparently had one with him at that very moment in his office) on Sunday afternoon, November 24, 1963!

Rostow should have been interrogated under oath about his repeated Sunday afternoon phone calls to Katzenbach and his later call to Moyers. At that moment, "Oswald's" body was not even cold - yet Rostow's pressing concern was to make sure that LBJ created a body that would issue a "no - conspiracy" finding!

The ultimate sponsors of the assassination were in Yale Law School Dean Eugene Rostow's social and political circle - he knew exactly on whose behalf he was speaking. 

 

[Guest Rich Pope]

Kennedy Assassination

 

Early in March of 1963, the matter of the actual assassin became a pressing issue.  A man by the name of R. T. Crowley had connections to the mob in Chicago (his father had been an important Chicago politician , parks commissioner, in the Kelly-Nash machine).  Because of these connections, Crowley contacted members of the Chicago Mafia for advice and possible assistance.

 

Chicago mob leader Sam Giancana, who had assisted in locating persons to carry out the CIA’s murder plots against FIdel Castro, loathed the Kennedy brothers but was far too shrewd to lend any of his identifiable men to cooperate in such a project.  In two conferences in the Drake Hotel with Crowley, Giancana agreed to locate assassins who could be expected to perform in a professional manner. It was suggested that perhaps this recruitment might be better done outside of the United States. Rather than involve the Sicilan Mafia, Giancana had on of his connections in that entity contact someone in the Corsican Mafia, the so-called Unione Corse, and it was from the ranks of this Marseille-based, well-knit, and very professional criminal organization that the assassins were found.  

 

The plotter’s reasoning was that if the killers were somehow caught before the CIA could kill them first, they could only identify the Chicago Mafia as their employers, and the Mafia would never identify the CIA as the real moving force.  If this question arose, the Mafia could much more easily be silenced than foreign killers could.

 

Before the Corsicans were finally brought on board, a co-worker suggested shopping in Beirut, Lebanon, then a center of assasination professionals.  The argument against this was that Corsicans would have no problems blending in the background in race conscious Dallas. Darker complexioned Lebanese or Arab professionals would certainly attract unwelcome notice in the provincial southern city.  It would be Marselles, then, instead of Beirut, that would supply the killers.

 

Early March 1963, the Director of Central Intelligence, John McCone, began a series of delicate contacts outside his immediate circle.

 

The first government agency contacted was the FBI.  The first conferences with its director J. Edgar Hoover and Deputy Director William Sullivan were held on March 4th.  The head of the FBI was permanently kept informed about the CIA’s actions by his to aide William Sullivan.  

 

On March 13 and 15, the next delicate contacts were made to Walter Jenkins and Abe Fortas, top aides of Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson.  Jenkins and Fortas, and with them of course the Vice President, were also kept informed about the rising plot.

 

As a result of these meetings, the two most important groups, the FBI and the future President of the United States, were hence quickly convinced to support the CIA.  

 

In the middle of April, Chicago Mafia boss Sam Giancana advised Crowley that a team of Corsicans had been assembled.  Their price for the job was one hundred thousand dollars per man, and there were four involved.

 

The immediate overseer of the execution of the plot was CIA officer William Harvey.  A safe house was to be set up in Maryland, and there the Corsicans were to be killed, their bodies dissected and put into crab pots.  The science of DNA had not yet been discovered, and what the famous soft-shelled crabs could not eat was to be dumped back into the water.  Bones do not float.

 

The Corsicans would be flown to Canada at the end of October, met by members of the Mafia, and driven into the United States over the Windsor, Ontario, International Bridge.  They would remain in a Mafia safe house in the Detroit area and then be flown in a private aircraft to the Dallas-Ft. Worth area. The Corsicans were under no circumstances to be told of the role of the CIA in their project.  They always considered that they were working solely for the American Mafia and no-one else.  

 

Weapons for the assassination were procured from Sam Cummings, CIA agent and head of INTERARMCO, a “proprietary” branch of the Angency.  This company, run by a British expert living in Warrentown, Virginia, specialized in gun running for the CIA. It was an easy matter for Cummings to procure two silenced .38-caliber pistols, two 7.65 surplus Argentine army Mausers, and a specially constructed .223-caliber rifle, which was cut down and modified from a standard NATO weapon.  Special bullets for the latter weapon, filled with mercury and designed to explode when entering a body, were manufactured and accompanied the weapon.

 

In the first week of November, the assassination team had been flown to Dallas and spent two weeks in reconnaissance of the entire presidential route.  It had initially been felt by the Corsican team leader that the shooting could be done as the cavalcade turned from Houston to Elm Streets. The presidential car would be moving very slowly as it negotiated the right angle turn and would present an excellent target.  A shooting blind could be constructed on the top of the Dallas County Records Building on Houston Street that had an excellent line of sight to the Elm Street corner, but flanking buildings were higher and could provide an undesired observer a clear view of the shooters.

 

It was finally decided to use the Book Depository as one base.  The railroad overpass was considered another excellent position but eventually ruled out because it was sure to be guarded.  To its right, however, the heavy bushes and fences of the elevated “grassy knoll” proved to be irresistible. The official car with the President would be moving slowly past the spot and would permit a slightly downhill shot at very close range.  Also, the extensive railroad yard behind this position gave ample room for an unobstructed escape.  

 

The final disposition of the assassination team was:

 

•  A shooter in the Texas Book Depository, sixth floor;

• A shooter in the ornamental bushes just before the underpass;

• Two English-speaking personnel in suits and equipped with false law enforcement identification in the railroad yard behind the second shooter.

 

* Whether Frank Sturgis was swapped-out for one of the Corsican shooters in the Texas School Book Depository is up for debate.

 

After the assassination, three of the four Corsicans vanished from the face of the earth after being escorted to a private plane at a Dallas area airfield about 2:30 in the afternoon of November 22.  The were informed they would first be flown to New Orleans, where the pilot, David Ferrie, was based, and thence to a safe house in Maryland. From the moment they climbed into the two-engine aircraft, they were never seen again.

 

One of the assassins (Lucien Sarti), the man who fired at JFK but pulled his shot as not to hurt Jackie Kennedy, decided to work his way back to Marseilles on his own.  For some unknown reason, he took a commercial bus to Mexico, and from there he ended up in Barcelona, Spain.  

 

The Corsican Assassins involved in the assassination of JFK:

 

Lucien Sarti  (grassy knoll shooter)

Francois Chiappe  (location unknown)

Jean-Paul Angeletti (location unknown)

Jean Soutre (location unknown)

 

American shooters 

 

Charles Nicoletti (Dal-Tex Building)

Jack Lawrence (storm drain)

Malcolm Wallace (Texas School Book Depository)

Frank Sturgis (Possibly the Texas School Book Depository or a location in front of the president's limo)

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Rich Pope

[Lawrence Schnapf]

Rolf Mowatt-Larsen will be speaking at the CAPA conference on Nov. 23rd. he is former CIA. he will be presenting his theory of where the plot originated. He believes it came out of the Miami office.  

[Michael Clark]

5 hours ago, Rich Pope said:

Kennedy Assassination

 

Early in March of 1963, the matter of the actual assassin became a pressing issue.  A man by the name of R. T. Crowley had connections to the mob in Chicago (his father had been an important Chicago politician , parks commissioner, in the Kelly-Nash machine).  Because of these connections, Crowley contacted members of the Chicago Mafia for advice and possible assistance.

 

Chicago mob leader Sam Giancana, who had assisted in locating persons to carry out the CIA’s murder plots against FIdel Castro, loathed the Kennedy brothers but was far too shrewd to lend any of his identifiable men to cooperate in such a project.  In two conferences in the Drake Hotel with Crowley, Giancana agreed to locate assassins who could be expected to perform in a professional manner. It was suggested that perhaps this recruitment might be better done outside of the United States. Rather than involve the Sicilan Mafia, Giancana had on of his connections in that entity contact someone in the Corsican Mafia, the so-called Unione Corse, and it was from the ranks of this Marseille-based, well-knit, and very professional criminal organization that the assassins were found.  

 

The plotter’s reasoning was that if the killers were somehow caught before the CIA could kill them first, they could only identify the Chicago Mafia as their employers, and the Mafia would never identify the CIA as the real moving force.  If this question arose, the Mafia could much more easily be silenced than foreign killers could.

 

Before the Corsicans were finally brought on board, a co-worker suggested shopping in Beirut, Lebanon, then a center of assasination professionals.  The argument against this was that Corsicans would have no problems blending in the background in race conscious Dallas. Darker complexioned Lebanese or Arab professionals would certainly attract unwelcome notice in the provincial southern city.  It would be Marselles, then, instead of Beirut, that would supply the killers.

 

Early March 1963, the Director of Central Intelligence, John McCone, began a series of delicate contacts outside his immediate circle.

 

The first government agency contacted was the FBI.  The first conferences with its director J. Edgar Hoover and Deputy Director William Sullivan were held on March 4th.  The head of the FBI was permanently kept informed about the CIA’s actions by his to aide William Sullivan.  

 

On March 13 and 15, the next delicate contacts were made to Walter Jenkins and Abe Fortas, top aides of Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson.  Jenkins and Fortas, and with them of course the Vice President, were also kept informed about the rising plot.

 

As a result of these meetings, the two most important groups, the FBI and the future President of the United States, were hence quickly convinced to support the CIA.  

 

In the middle of April, Chicago Mafia boss Sam Giancana advised Crowley that a team of Corsicans had been assembled.  Their price for the job was one hundred thousand dollars per man, and there were four involved.

 

The immediate overseer of the execution of the plot was CIA officer William Harvey.  A safe house was to be set up in Maryland, and there the Corsicans were to be killed, their bodies dissected and put into crab pots.  The science of DNA had not yet been discovered, and what the famous soft-shelled crabs could not eat was to be dumped back into the water.  Bones do not float.

 

The Corsicans would be flown to Canada at the end of October, met by members of the Mafia, and driven into the United States over the Windsor, Ontario, International Bridge.  They would remain in a Mafia safe house in the Detroit area and then be flown in a private aircraft to the Dallas-Ft. Worth area. The Corsicans were under no circumstances to be told of the role of the CIA in their project.  They always considered that they were working solely for the American Mafia and no-one else.  

 

Weapons for the assassination were procured from Sam Cummings, CIA agent and head of INTERARMCO, a “proprietary” branch of the Angency.  This company, run by a British expert living in Warrentown, Virginia, specialized in gun running for the CIA. It was an easy matter for Cummings to procure two silenced .38-caliber pistols, two 7.65 surplus Argentine army Mausers, and a specially constructed .223-caliber rifle, which was cut down and modified from a standard NATO weapon.  Special bullets for the latter weapon, filled with mercury and designed to explode when entering a body, were manufactured and accompanied the weapon.

 

In the first week of November, the assassination team had been flown to Dallas and spent two weeks in reconnaissance of the entire presidential route.  It had initially been felt by the Corsican team leader that the shooting could be done as the cavalcade turned from Houston to Elm Streets. The presidential car would be moving very slowly as it negotiated the right angle turn and would present an excellent target.  A shooting blind could be constructed on the top of the Dallas County Records Building on Houston Street that had an excellent line of sight to the Elm Street corner, but flanking buildings were higher and could provide an undesired observer a clear view of the shooters.

 

It was finally decided to use the Book Depository as one base.  The railroad overpass was considered another excellent position but eventually ruled out because it was sure to be guarded.  To its right, however, the heavy bushes and fences of the elevated “grassy knoll” proved to be irresistible. The official car with the President would be moving slowly past the spot and would permit a slightly downhill shot at very close range.  Also, the extensive railroad yard behind this position gave ample room for an unobstructed escape.  

 

The final disposition of the assassination team was:

 

•  A shooter in the Texas Book Depository, sixth floor;

• A shooter in the ornamental bushes just before the underpass;

• Two English-speaking personnel in suits and equipped with false law enforcement identification in the railroad yard behind the second shooter.

 

* Whether Frank Sturgis was swapped-out for one of the Corsican shooters in the Texas School Book Depository is up for debate.

 

After the assassination, three of the four Corsicans vanished from the face of the earth after being escorted to a private plane at a Dallas area airfield about 2:30 in the afternoon of November 22.  The were informed they would first be flown to New Orleans, where the pilot, David Ferrie, was based, and thence to a safe house in Maryland. From the moment they climbed into the two-engine aircraft, they were never seen again.

 

One of the assassins (Lucien Sarti), the man who fired at JFK but pulled his shot as not to hurt Jackie Kennedy, decided to work his way back to Marseilles on his own.  For some unknown reason, he took a commercial bus to Mexico, and from there he ended up in Barcelona, Spain.  

 

The Corsican Assassins involved in the assassination of JFK:

 

Lucien Sarti  (grassy knoll shooter)

Francois Chiappe  (location unknown)

Jean-Paul Angeletti (location unknown)

Jean Soutre (location unknown)

 

American shooters 

 

Charles Nicoletti (Dal-Tex Building)

Jack Lawrence (storm drain)

Malcolm Wallace (Texas School Book Depository)

Frank Sturgis (Possibly the Texas School Book Depository or a location in front of the president's limo)

 

Aren’t you going to quote your sources?

http://forum.jfkmurdersolved.com/viewtopic.php?p=40646

 

[Guest Rich Pope]

7 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

Aren’t you going to quote your sources?

http://forum.jfkmurdersolved.com/viewtopic.php?p=40646

 

Actually, I suffer from the problem of taking notes from books and then forgetting which books they came from.  I do appreciate you providing this link to help me out.  I don't have the mind that is sharp enough to keep track of everything, which is a shame.  In the future, to make life easier on everyone else, I'll be sure to provide the source material.  Thank you again.

[Guest Rich Pope]

Since the CIA used the Mafia in many attempts to kill Castro, I have no reason to believe the CIA would not use the Mafia to also try to kill JFK.  As many have pointed out, there are so many people who were mad at JFK and some wanted him dead, that I believe it was a concerted effort of different persons that played a part in his death.  

[Michael Clark]

59 minutes ago, Rich Pope said:

Actually, I suffer from the problem of taking notes from books and then forgetting which books they came from.  I do appreciate you providing this link to help me out.  I don't have the mind that is sharp enough to keep track of everything, which is a shame.  In the future, to make life easier on everyone else, I'll be sure to provide the source material.  Thank you again.

This is ridiculous. 

[Evan Marshall]

JM  Wave

[Michael Clark]

10 hours ago, Evan Marshall said:

JM  Wave

A solid candidate.

A document, thanks to @Bart Kamp

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/ec498402-3465-453a-a17b-5f106a4e85fe/downloads/JMWAVE - AMBUD.pdf?ver=1569645475562

 

Classified message 

Date: 5 Jan 63

To:           Director

From:      WAVE

Action:    TFW 10

Info: ...

 

DIR CITE WAVE 3050 (?)

IMMEDIATE ACTION

GYROSE  KUWOLF

REF  Wa.. 2757

1.AMBUD-1 ETD 7 JAN National FLT 202 for ZRMETAL to confer with messrs Hurvitch of State and Califano of DOD Re Training of Cubans and possible arrangements specific program as incentive recruitment large number Brigade members. AMBUD-1 Me also pay courtesy call on GPFOCUS.

2.  FYI wish point out in AMBUD-1 feels brigade was creature of KUBARK and KUBARK must that make final determination re brigade’s future, i.e., what role will brigade play in exile community and how will it be used in future achieve liberation Cuba. AMBUD-1 Willing actively assist in implementing any KUBARK proposed solution but he has no ideas of his own despite fact he previously alerted to prepare for solution two problems which would occur when brigade returned.

3. Info currently available indicates troika of Artime, San Roman and Olivia under leadership And inspiration furnished by already May will manage hold major portion brigade together in other loose confederation as predicted para 1. WAVE influence over AMBUD-1 and Artime  should result this brigade confederation remaining internal part AMBUD altho exact details for this have not been worked out. If this ... listed brigade can be used as PM instrument which functions under AMBUD aegis. WAVE intends control this PM instrument thru recruitment ARTIME and Oliva. PM exploitation brigade will not result gainful employment any substantial number brigade members. Thus major portion brigade members who stay loyal AMBUD have no future as professional revolutionaries.  Additionally existing ODYOKE policy would appear preclude maintenance brigade as conventional fighting unit. Within current policy see no immediate role for brigade per se in PM ops as commandos or for building resistance mechanism Cuba. This brigade is at best de facto latent pool possible PM agent candidates if PM ops Are again initiated at pre-Oct 62 levels. Brigade offers no apparent FI potential and CI potential while being explored appears limited in scope. Realistically this means brigade must be settled, i.e., put back into private economy from which it came. This will in part be accomplished by new resettlement efforts which targeted against all Cuban refugees located Dade County.  This effort however not sufficient in scope or depth solve these economic problems which are bound erode initial buoyancy and esprit de corps which brigade has shown since its release. Economic and family pressures will mount as time passes and labor market Dade County cannot absorb labor force which brigade represents.  Resultant chaotic economic situation will then cause serious problems for AMBUD, KUBARK and ODYOKE.  Suggest therefore there merit in establishing safety valve now and believe this can be done establishing army recruitment program designed get some significant part of brigade into Army Cuban training program.  This obviously short term solution as WAVE has no insight into what DOD plans do with if Cuban army trainees once they finish basic training. If HQS has info regard this matter WAVE would appreciate expeditious receipt of this background info. Despite the fact recruitment brigade returnees into army only short term solution believe it worth pursuing as in our judgment such action will facilitate overall resettlement brigade members if for no other reason then it would stagger reinsertion brigade members into Dade County labor market. Suggest therefore HQS consideration alerting appropriate ODYOKE components re favorable aspects which inherent in using army Cuban recruitment program as resettlement device figure brigade returnees. If appropriate ODYOKE components agreed this worth doing it our opinion action would have to be taken start campaign among brigade returnees to publicize enlistment program.

4. Request HQS comment para 3.

End of message

Edited October 1, 2019 by Michael Clark

[James DiEugenio]

The idea that the mafia pulled something like this off, or that the plot was based around the Majestic Papers is so utterly inane that its a bit shocking.

As I have often said, in my view, the actual assassination was not a multi agency cooperative effort.  And the best evidence is that Hoover was not directly involved.  Hoover did not know what the heck was going on in Mexico City.  He was simply lost.  And he did not figure it out for about six weeks.

Paul is on to something with his comment above. When the plot went awry, and they had to drag in Ruby to kill Oswald, that is when the Power Elite decided--hey everybody is now going to say, "Ruby was sent in to silence this guy."  Therefore, the Warren Commission--which Alsop and Rostow essentially dictated to the White House--now became the modus operandi for the willy nilly CYA operation.  And oh boy, did they do a good job.  Work in secrecy, issue the report first, the MSM buys into it like hungry dogs--then issue the evidence in 26 volumes and 17,000 pages 2 months later which, as Allen Dulles predicted, no one is going to read.

Then when some people do read it, the MSM at the highest levels, comes in to clobber them--through CBS and NBC.  There is nothing fanciful about this, because that is what happened.  We have it in documents that prove this is what happened: through both the ARRB and the late Roger Feinman, who pilfered his from his former employer CBS. 

Now, were Bill Paley, Dick Salant, and Robert and David Sarnoff in on the plot to kill Kennedy? Only someone as bereft and pernicious as Lance would even offer such tripe.  But anyone who studies the power elite understands that they have an interest in upholding the status quo.  Therefore, when some issue threatens to upset that balance e.g. Iran/Contra or the CIA and drugs through Gary Webb, they will do all they can to keep the dam from bursting.  And they did. That is the way the system works. And one does not need to read people like Michael Parenti to figure it out.  Anyone who studies these kinds of cases will know that.  Apparently, everyone who says that America has gone to Hades in a hand basket in the last 55 years is wrong. According to our ace lawyer, all has  been just fine in America  over the last 55 years. Hmm. JFK, Malcolm, MLK, RFK, Watergate, the Church Committee, the Pike Report, BCCI, Iran/Contra, Oliver North, drugs for arms in Central America, hostages for weapons with Iran, the October Surprise,  Part 1-1968, Part 2- 1980, the banks and savings and loans--which go belly up-- rip off America, not once but twice, and the second time the Treasury saves them etc etc. etc. None of that really occurred I guess.

Go back to sleep Lucky Lance.  Everything is just fine and dandy.

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by James DiEugenio