The assassination of JFK: Who was the Mastermind?

[Norman T. Field]

Re:

"Giancana was also quoted as saying, "There were three people who knew who shot Kennedy.  Now there are only two and we're not talking" after the death of Jimmy Hoffa."

This quote has long been attributed to Santos Trafficante, including by his attorney Frank Ragano. Just because something is printed in a book doesn't mean it is necessarily true. Never once, in all the bios of Mooney or books on the Outfit that I have read, have I ever (before today) seen this quote linked to Sam. 

It might have been Bill Kelly who many years ago compared the JFK hit to an onion. After years of work, one is able to peel back one single layer of the onion and believe that what they have found is the truth, only to eventually realize how many more layers of the onion remain. It has been suggested that the real reason Mafia types were present in Dallas was to provide a secondary patsy. If the original patsy story fell apart, suddenly the mob did it.  

I get so annoyed when the newcomers here fail to appreciate the full depth of more than 50 years of scholarship by some members of this forum simply because the newbie has read a book or two and are convinced that they now know the truth that is contrary to the decades of work by dedicated researchers.  To say nothing of the company sponsored trolls whose role is to confuse and obscure that work. 

 

 

[David Josephs]

On 9/30/2019 at 9:31 AM, Paul Jolliffe said:

The ultimate sponsors of the assassination were in Yale Law School Dean Eugene Rostow's social and political circle - he knew exactly on whose behalf he was speaking. 

Agreed Paul... and here are some of the names...  One I just noticed missing: The owners of TEXTRON who bought Bell Helicopter via a lucrative load from an Insurance Co.

McGeorge Bundy  "Well, it is alarming to have a president who doesn't know what he is doing." ~ McGeorge Bundy

==============

The book (THE WISE MEN) identifies six people who were important foreign policy advisors to U.S. Presidents from Franklin D. Roosevelt to Lyndon Johnson and were influential in the development of Cold War era foreign policy for America. The six are:

Dean Acheson, Secretary of State under President Harry Truman
Charles E. Bohlen, U.S. Ambassador to the Soviet Union, the Philippines, and France
W. Averell Harriman, Special Envoy for President Franklin Roosevelt
George F. Kennan, Ambassador to the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia, State Dept. Director of Policy Planning
Robert A. Lovett, Truman's Secretary of Defense
John J. McCloy, a War Department official and later U.S. High Commissioner for Germany.

The group comprised two lawyers, two bankers, and two diplomats. Five of the six were from the so-called Georgetown Set. Acheson, Harriman, and Lovett had known each other since their days at prep school or college and on Wall Street. Bohlen, Kennan and McCloy were younger and did not know the others well until their public lives brought them into close contact.[3]

Most of these men, Lovett and McCloy in particular, were strongly influenced by Secretary of War Henry Stimson. Elihu Root, Stimson's mentor, is often regarded as the prototypical "wise men."

============================

Also take a look at Deputy Director of Defense Roswell Gilpatric and the partners of Cravath, Swaine and Moore (McCloy, 

He graduated from Yale University in 1928, Phi Beta Kappa; and then from Yale Law School in 1931, where he was an editor of the Yale Law Journal. Following his graduation, Gilpatric went to work for the New York City law firm of Cravath, Swaine & Moore, where he became a partner and where he practiced when not serving in government. Gilpatric owed much of his political cachet to his special relationship with the celebrated lawyer, diplomat and investment banker Robert A. Lovett, to whom Gilpatric was a protégé.

Gilpatric served as Under Secretary of the Air Force from 1951-1953. During 1956 and 1957, Gilpatric was a member of the Rockefeller Brothers' Special Studies Project. Gilpatric was a childhood friend of Governor Nelson Rockefeller.[7]

==============================

Another partner - Seymour P. Gilbert, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in Woodrow Wilson and Warren G. Harding's administrations... this is during the creation of the FED.

 

The "Sponsor" level of the crime resides within and above the Military Industrial Congressional Complex... to me Bundy was both Sponsor and Facilitator...

DJ

[Guest Rich Pope]

1 hour ago, Norman T. Field said:

Re:

"Giancana was also quoted as saying, "There were three people who knew who shot Kennedy.  Now there are only two and we're not talking" after the death of Jimmy Hoffa."

This quote has long been attributed to Santos Trafficante, including by his attorney Frank Ragano. Just because something is printed in a book doesn't mean it is necessarily true. Never once, in all the bios of Mooney or books on the Outfit that I have read, have I ever (before today) seen this quote linked to Sam. 

It might have been Bill Kelly who many years ago compared the JFK hit to an onion. After years of work, one is able to peel back one single layer of the onion and believe that what they have found is the truth, only to eventually realize how many more layers of the onion remain. It has been suggested that the real reason Mafia types were present in Dallas was to provide a secondary patsy. If the original patsy story fell apart, suddenly the mob did it.  

I get so annoyed when the newcomers here fail to appreciate the full depth of more than 50 years of scholarship by some members of this forum simply because the newbie has read a book or two and are convinced that they now know the truth that is contrary to the decades of work by dedicated researchers.  To say nothing of the company sponsored trolls whose role is to confuse and obscure that work. 

 

 

I stand corrected on the source of that statement.  It was Santos who said it.  Thanks for pointing it out.  And if your "newbie" comment is directed at me, I have in previous posts on previous threads given great credit and high praises of all of the researchers and authors on this forum.  But again, people are only interested in launching Ad hominem attacks instead of discussing the issues.  

Edited October 1, 2019 by Rich Pope

[Cory Santos]

Yes Rich I was agreeing with Jim Dieugino.

[Guest Rich Pope]

24 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

Yes Rich I was agreeing with Jim Dieugino.

Jim's got a lot of experience and he's a published author.  He's entitled to his own opinions which doesn't mean he's always right.  I went ahead and listed my sources for my statements in another post.  I will say unequivocally William King Harvey was in charge of locating the shooters, Sam Giancana did the leg-work, four Corsicans were procured, 2 were shooters, 2 were false law enforcement officers with false credentials and three of them were murdered after they were flown out of Dallas.  Only one survived and that was Lucien Sarti who made his way through Mexico on his way back home.  I will also add the Mafia provided shooters as well, going against Giancana's initial gut feeling not to involve the Sicilian Mob.   

On 14th January, 1992, the New York Post claimed that Trafficante, Jimmy Hoffa and Carlos Marcello had all been involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Frank Ragano was quoted as saying that at the beginning of 1963 Hoffa had told him to take a message to Trafficante and Marcello concerning a plan to kill Kennedy. When the meeting took place at the Royal Orleans Hotel, Ragano told the men: "You won't believe what Hoffa wants me to tell you. Jimmy wants you to kill the president." He reported that both men gave the impression that they intended to carry out this order.

In his autobiography, Mob Lawyer (1994) (co-written with journalist Selwyn Raab) Frank Ragano added that in July, 1963, he was once again sent to New Orleans by Hoffa to meet Trafficante and Carlos Marcello concerning plans to kill President John F. Kennedy. When Kennedy was killed Hoffa apparently said to Ragano: "I told you could do it. I'll never forget what Carlos and Santos did for me." He added: "This means Bobby is out as Attorney General". Marcello later told Ragano: "When you see Jimmy (Hoffa), you tell him he owes me and he owes me big."  https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKtrafficante.htm

So, I may be a "newbie" as I've been dubbed, but the above is completely true and anyone who says the CIA and the Mafia didn't work together back then is a xxxx.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Rich Pope

[Michael Clark]

7 hours ago, Rich Pope said:

Michael,

In no way did I claim in any manner it was my own since a simple Google search would show it wasn't. What's missing out of all of this is the information contained in the post I made and also the link you posted.  I believe it to be correct and I would like others to give their two cents, not focusing on me but focusing on the material that is posted.  And like I said earlier, I'll be more conscientious about posting the citation after something I've read in an article or a book. 

If you post something and don’t inform the reader whose words you are sharing, it is implied that you are representing those words as yours. You can’t change that. You can’t change that by posting something without attribution you are implying that they are your words. You do not have control over that situation. You claim to be a teacher and CIA officer. You must think we are stupid in believing that you don’t know what you are being told.

”It insults my intelligence 

and it makes me very angry”

-Michael Corleone

 

 

[Michael Clark]

3 hours ago, Rich Pope said:

I stand corrected on the source of that statement.  It was Santos who said it.  Thanks for pointing it out.  And if your "newbie" comment is directed at me, I have in previous posts on previous threads given great credit and high praises of all of the researchers and authors on this forum.  But again, people are only interested in launching Ad hominem attacks instead of discussing the issues.  

It’s not a matter of attacking you. It’s a matter of letting you know that what you are doing indicates a lack of integrity. That is for your benefit, and our self-respect.

We argue until the cows come home about credibility, that’s what a debate is all about. Plagiarism is, well, ......

[James DiEugenio]

Rich, 

Please.  You have now used three different sources that have all turned out to be false.  

In order, these are Regicide, Frank Ragano, and the alleged Malcolm Wallace fingerprint hoisted on us by Barr McClellan and Walt Brown.

 From my review of Mark Shaw's Denial of Justice:

As per Ragano, his book was exposed as a tall tale back in 1994 in the pages of Vanity Fair by Anthony and Robbyn Summers. Ragano wrote that before he died his client Santo Trafficante made a confession to him by calling him up from Tampa. Ragano picked him up and the Don told him that they should have killed Bobby Kennedy and not JFK. As the article notes, HSCA Chief Counsel Robert Blakey found this claim credible. But as the authors showed, Trafficante did not even live in Tampa at that time—March of 1987. He was living in Miami. He only visited Tampa at Christmas. The idea that he would have flown there is made ridiculous since he was on kidney dialysis and had a permanent colostomy bag. On top of all that, Summers and his wife came up with three witnesses to furnish an alibi for Trafficante. (“The Ghosts of November”, 12/94, Vanity Fair) In the face of this, it is shocking that Shaw is at pains to defend Ragano. But somehow he does not reference this essay.

From my review of Mellen's  Faustian Bargains:

 

Using high technology, including a 256 shade gray scale that Darby did not have, Garrett now went to work.  He concluded that the unidentified box print was not a match with the Wallace print.  First he noted eight points of discrepancy between the two—that is, specific mismatches.  And he described these in detail. (p. 259)  Beyond that, he brought up problems with all fourteen of the alleged matches that Darby had made.  Some of these were due to the poor copies he had to work with.  But also part of it was the black and white methodology employed.  Garrett indicated where the “plotting” was off due to incorrect alignments. (p. 260) Garrett therefore concluded that there was no doubt that the unidentified Warren Commission box print did not belong to Wallace.

It’s discouraging that we had to wait 15 years to correct this historic misjudgment.  Meanwhile, people like Roger Stone, Barr McClellan, Philip Nelson and Nigel Turner used this evidence in their books and films.  But due to the better original quality, the higher technology, and Garrett’s certification, the Darby/Harrison identification must stand corrected.

[Paul Brancato]

3 hours ago, Rich Pope said:

Jim's got a lot of experience and he's a published author.  He's entitled to his own opinions which doesn't mean he's always right.  I went ahead and listed my sources for my statements in another post.  I will say unequivocally William King Harvey was in charge of locating the shooters, Sam Giancana did the leg-work, four Corsicans were procured, 2 were shooters, 2 were false law enforcement officers with false credentials and three of them were murdered after they were flown out of Dallas.  Only one survived and that was Lucien Sarti who made his way through Mexico on his way back home.  I will also add the Mafia provided shooters as well, going against Giancana's initial gut feeling not to involve the Sicilian Mob.   

On 14th January, 1992, the New York Post claimed that Trafficante, Jimmy Hoffa and Carlos Marcello had all been involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Frank Ragano was quoted as saying that at the beginning of 1963 Hoffa had told him to take a message to Trafficante and Marcello concerning a plan to kill Kennedy. When the meeting took place at the Royal Orleans Hotel, Ragano told the men: "You won't believe what Hoffa wants me to tell you. Jimmy wants you to kill the president." He reported that both men gave the impression that they intended to carry out this order.

In his autobiography, Mob Lawyer (1994) (co-written with journalist Selwyn Raab) Frank Ragano added that in July, 1963, he was once again sent to New Orleans by Hoffa to meet Trafficante and Carlos Marcello concerning plans to kill President John F. Kennedy. When Kennedy was killed Hoffa apparently said to Ragano: "I told you could do it. I'll never forget what Carlos and Santos did for me." He added: "This means Bobby is out as Attorney General". Marcello later told Ragano: "When you see Jimmy (Hoffa), you tell him he owes me and he owes me big."  https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKtrafficante.htm

So, I may be a "newbie" as I've been dubbed, but the above is completely true and anyone who says the CIA and the Mafia didn't work together back then is a xxxx.

Rich - are you just jerking our chains? I for one recall that a while ago you posted that you had inside info, from your father I believe, as to who the guilty parties were. You never shared that info here, claiming your life would have been put in danger if you had done so. 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Paul Brancato

[Paul Jolliffe]

6 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Agreed Paul... and here are some of the names...  One I just noticed missing: The owners of TEXTRON who bought Bell Helicopter via a lucrative load from an Insurance Co.

McGeorge Bundy  "Well, it is alarming to have a president who doesn't know what he is doing." ~ McGeorge Bundy

==============

The book (THE WISE MEN) identifies six people who were important foreign policy advisors to U.S. Presidents from Franklin D. Roosevelt to Lyndon Johnson and were influential in the development of Cold War era foreign policy for America. The six are:

Dean Acheson, Secretary of State under President Harry Truman
Charles E. Bohlen, U.S. Ambassador to the Soviet Union, the Philippines, and France
W. Averell Harriman, Special Envoy for President Franklin Roosevelt
George F. Kennan, Ambassador to the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia, State Dept. Director of Policy Planning
Robert A. Lovett, Truman's Secretary of Defense
John J. McCloy, a War Department official and later U.S. High Commissioner for Germany.

The group comprised two lawyers, two bankers, and two diplomats. Five of the six were from the so-called Georgetown Set. Acheson, Harriman, and Lovett had known each other since their days at prep school or college and on Wall Street. Bohlen, Kennan and McCloy were younger and did not know the others well until their public lives brought them into close contact.[3]

Most of these men, Lovett and McCloy in particular, were strongly influenced by Secretary of War Henry Stimson. Elihu Root, Stimson's mentor, is often regarded as the prototypical "wise men."

============================

Also take a look at Deputy Director of Defense Roswell Gilpatric and the partners of Cravath, Swaine and Moore (McCloy, 

He graduated from Yale University in 1928, Phi Beta Kappa; and then from Yale Law School in 1931, where he was an editor of the Yale Law Journal. Following his graduation, Gilpatric went to work for the New York City law firm of Cravath, Swaine & Moore, where he became a partner and where he practiced when not serving in government. Gilpatric owed much of his political cachet to his special relationship with the celebrated lawyer, diplomat and investment banker Robert A. Lovett, to whom Gilpatric was a protégé.

Gilpatric served as Under Secretary of the Air Force from 1951-1953. During 1956 and 1957, Gilpatric was a member of the Rockefeller Brothers' Special Studies Project. Gilpatric was a childhood friend of Governor Nelson Rockefeller.[7]

==============================

Another partner - Seymour P. Gilbert, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in Woodrow Wilson and Warren G. Harding's administrations... this is during the creation of the FED.

 

The "Sponsor" level of the crime resides within and above the Military Industrial Congressional Complex... to me Bundy was both Sponsor and Facilitator...

DJ

David,

What's your take on McGeorge Bundy's role in the critical revision of the draft of NSAM 273, the one prepared for (presumably JFK) on Thursday, 11/21/63 in Honolulu but then finalized the next week in Washington for LBJ?

http://www.jfklancer.com/NSAM273.html

[John Kozlowski]

8 hours ago, Rich Pope said:

Forging CIA documents is a felony.  I'm not willing to lose my life and my freedom over something so reckless.  And yet again, another person on this forum who finds it more important to attack a person and their character than what is actually being posted.

I was talking about Douglas not you. Wouldn’t put it past you though

[John Kozlowski]

2 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Rich - are you just jerking our chains? I for one recall that a while ago you posted that you had inside info, from your father I believe, as to who the guilty parties were. You never shared that info here, claiming your life would have been put in danger if you had done so. 

Then his house was broken into and the box of evidence was stolen. Not sure if you caught that part or not. It was an expected twist to the story.

[David Josephs]

13 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

David,

What's your take on McGeorge Bundy's role in the critical revision of the draft of NSAM 273, the one prepared for (presumably JFK) on Thursday, 11/21/63 in Honolulu but then finalized the next week in Washington for LBJ?

http://www.jfklancer.com/NSAM273.html

Up to his eyeballs in it....

Facilitator/Sponsor IMHO Paul....  Like Harriman.   In a unique position to agree with and/or initiate the thought of removing JFK while positioned within the government to assist in its accomplishment and cover-up.  It's also quite possible that he was simply a Facilitator with amazing connections - he seems to have walked a fine line

DJ

He was admitted to Yale University, one year behind his brother William. At Yale, he served as secretary of the Yale Political Union and then chairman of its Liberal Party. He was on the staff of the Yale Literary Magazine and also wrote a column for the Yale Daily News. Like his father, he was inducted into the Skull and Bones secret society, where he was nicknamed "Odin". He remained in contact with his fellow Bonesmen for decades afterward.^[6] He graduated from Yale with an A.B. in mathematics in 1940.

Bundy was a strong proponent of the Vietnam War during his tenure, believing it essential to contain communism. He supported escalating United States involvement, including commitment of hundreds of thousands of ground troops and the sustained bombing of North Vietnam in 1965. According to Kai Bird, Bundy and other advisors well understood the risk but proceeded with these actions largely because of domestic politics, rather than believing that the US had a realistic chance of victory in this war.^[4]

He left government in 1966 to serve as president of the Ford Foundation,^[15] remaining in this position until 1979.

[Guest Rich Pope]

14 hours ago, John Kozlowski said:

I was talking about Douglas not you. Wouldn’t put it past you though

Look.  I know that that the CIA isn't looked favorably on this forum.  And I will be the first to say, "I get it".  I hold no grudges.  All I was trying to say in the most straightforward way is that if a person forges federal documents, it is a felony and that person is going to prison.  There are roughly 20,000 employees who work for the CIA.  Only a VERY small number of which would fit the bill of being a "spy" in the traditional sense.  A person like that would be known as a NOC (non-official cover).  This person's job is to collect human intelligence (humint) that the United States deems useful.  These people work in foreign countries and don't have any law enforcement powers.  In fact, it is written in the charter of the CIA that domestic spying is forbidden even though the CIA has broken that rule on occasion.  John, I'm not the bad guy here.  I know some people don't like me and I can't help that.  Maybe it is what I used to do for a living or maybe it's how I present myself (non-intentionally).  I'm just here to learn different opinions and ideas and not to spread disinformation.  

[Guest Rich Pope]

On 10/1/2019 at 7:17 PM, Paul Brancato said:

Rich - are you just jerking our chains? I for one recall that a while ago you posted that you had inside info, from your father I believe, as to who the guilty parties were. You never shared that info here, claiming your life would have been put in danger if you had done so. 

Paul,

No, I'm not jerking your chain.  The shooters I named are the ones in Dealey Plaza:

Lucien Sarti  (grassy knoll shooter)

Francois Chiappe  

Jean-Paul Angeletti 

Jean Soutre

In addition, as I have pointed out and documented, Malcolm Wallace was also involved.  There was a shooter from the Dal-Tex building.  Johnny Roselli claimed that he and his men killed Kennedy from the Grassy Knoll and the Storm Sewer.  Even though I distrust James Files and his claim that Johnny Roselli was a shooter, I do however trust Johnny himself and his claim that he and his men assassinated the president.