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Who has researched Forrest Sorrels deeply?


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I find Dallas FBI agent James Hosty's 1964 Warren Commission testimony strangely inconsistent with his 1996 book, Assignment Oswald (1996).

Yet, if Dallas FBI agent James Hosty is suspicious, then Dallas Secret Service agent Forrest Sorrels is equally so.

James Hosty began his full-time FBI work in Dallas in 1953.   Forrest Sorrels began his full-time Secret Service work in Dallas in 1941.   The first month that Hosty moved to Dallas, he met his counterpart -- Forrest Sorrels, who had already been living in Dallas for a dozen years.   They had worked closely for ten years before JFK made his fateful visit. 

The key question -- repeated more than a dozen times in WC testimony of at least four high-level witnesses, was this: "How could the FBI fail to inform the Washington DC Secret Service about dangerous people in Dallas?"

James Hosty's response was -- "Oswald didn't look dangerous to the FBI."  Yet, when asked why Hosty had tracked Oswald for most of 1963, Hosty replied, "Oswald looked dangerous to the FBI."

In a bizarre comedy, both J. Edgar Hoover and Alan Belmont supported James Hosty -- in both responses!

Now -- if Dallas FBI agent James Hosty is suspicious, then Dallas Secret Service agent Forrest Sorrels is equally so.   They were both experts in the politics of Dallas, as well as in the criminal element of Dallas.   Neither one was a dummy.

So, I ask the Forum.   Who has researched Forrest Sorrels deeply?

Edited by Paul Trejo
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James Hosty smiled slightly when giving this answer - "they didn't ask" - to the following years later question:

During Hosty's initial sworn testimony to the Warren Commission back in 1964 ( "to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God " - and Hosty was a Catholic ) 

why didn't he ( Hosty) tell the Warren Commission about his destruction of at least part of his office's Oswald file the day of or day after Oswald was shot and killed by Jack Ruby upon being ordered to do so by his boss Gordon Shanklin?

Hosty's almost flippant answer ... "they didn't ask." 

"They didn't ask" ??? !!!  

How could Hosty's Warren Commission questioners ask about something they were totally unaware and never informed of ?

Can you imagine what the revealing of this file destruction action would have meant to the Commission if Hosty had told them the full truth regards his doing this after being instructed to do so by his boss Gordon Shanklin?

Hosty held this important information back from the WC.

That's a James Hosty admitted fact.

To Hosty, clearly his loyalty to his employer trumped his loyalty to the "whole truth" oath he took before giving his WC testimony.

And if Hosty made contradictory statements in his book versus his WC testimony this just adds to doubts about his truth telling veracity and credibility.

And I mention again, my hearing of Hosty saying in a radio interview about his book "Assignment: Oswald" ...
We ( the FBI and referring to the Warren Commission and their investigation ) had three of them - Ford, Russell..." and before he could mention a third person, he was cut off by the interviewer with another question totally unrelated to this astounding admission by Hosty.

Information vital to the JFK assassination investigation truth was withheld from the WC in Hosty's case, and which logically forces one to assume other incidents of this full truth withholding from him and others taking place as well.

 

Edited by Joe Bauer
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Hi Paul

 

On the New Document releases thread I posted about one about Sorrels which I thought was quite interesting in what it said about him and Hosty....I put the page numbers that are relevant in my post as not all of it is about Sorrels and Hosty

The relevant bit is this one -

Forrest Sorrels - bio and refusal to talk to the HSCA (pg 110 to 112)
-written report by Sorrels on questioning of Ruby on 24th November 1963 and why Ruby shot LHO.(pg 113 to 116)
-memo from May 1964 on the Cellar coffee house in Fort Worth (pg 117)
-written report by Sorrels 30th November 1963 on the meetings and preparation for JFK’s visit (pg 118 to 119)
-statement of Sorrels 29th November 1963 on the motorcade and hearing the shots “I heard what sounded like a rifle shot” (pg 119 to 120)
-rough draft memo from Mr Griffin and Mr Hubert on meeting Sorrels 22nd March 1964 - thought this was quite an interesting read - He was unwilling to state that he thought Ruby was telling him the truth. Ruby’s entrance to the basement to shoot Oswald and mistakes in handling the transfer. “Sorrels stated he was present during the latter part of the questioning of Oswald and that he was of the opinion that Oswald was beginning to loosen up” “a certain amount of ill will between the Dallas Police department and the Bureau” “Mr Griffin asked Mr Sorrels if it was his understanding that Hosty would indicate that the story he would give the Commission was a fabrication and Mr Sorrels indicated that he understood it could be Hosty’s attitude. He also indicated that he and perhaps others believed that if there were to be a fall guy within the Bureau, it would be Hosty” Sadly it tapers of and is incomplete but if you want to read it for yourself it’s pgs 121 to 124.

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32267344.pdf

 

 

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FROM MY LATEST (FOURTH) BOOK "WHO'S WHO IN THE SECRET SERVICE" (2018), ALSO TO BE FOUND IN MY FIRST BOOK "SURVIVOR'S GUILT: THE SECRET SERVICE & THE FAILURE TO PROTECT PRESIDENT KENNEDY" (2013):

From an FBI report dated 11/27/63: “At approximately 10:30 p.m. today a telephone call was received from a female individual who refused to furnish her identity. She advised she is a member of the local theatre guild and that on numerous occasions she has attended functions or speeches where Mr. Sorrels, Head of the Secret Service, Dallas, has spoken. She maintained that Mr. Sorrels should be removed from his position as he was incompetent and did not have the ability to protect the president. She stated he was definitely anti-government, against the Kennedy administration, and she felt his position was against the security of not only the President but the United States. During the time this individual furnished the information set out above an effort was made to determine her name and address however she declined.” [Signed] Inspector Tom Kelley Secret Service 9:20 a.m. 12/2/63.” [FBI RIF#124-10164-10019]

---

I did deep research on Sorrels and all the Kennedy detail---see my first and fourth books.

During interviews conducted on 1/28/92 and 9/27/92, the 90-year-old former agent refused to discuss the JFK assassination. Sorrels would only say, “The Warren Report stands.” Sorrels passed away 11/6/93. A short and angry exchange.

 

Edited by Vince Palamara
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On 10/1/2019 at 6:25 AM, Joe Bauer said:

James Hosty smiled slightly when giving this answer - "they didn't ask" - to the following years later question:

During Hosty's initial sworn testimony to the Warren Commission back in 1964 ( "to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God " - and Hosty was a Catholic ) 

why didn't he ( Hosty) tell the Warren Commission about his destruction of at least part of his office's Oswald file the day of or day after Oswald was shot and killed by Jack Ruby upon being ordered to do so by his boss Gordon Shanklin?

Hosty's almost flippant answer ... "they didn't ask." 

"They didn't ask" ??? !!!  

How could Hosty's Warren Commission questioners ask about something they were totally unaware and never informed of ?

Can you imagine what the revealing of this file destruction action would have meant to the Commission if Hosty had told them the full truth regards his doing this after being instructed to do so by his boss Gordon Shanklin?

Hosty held this important information back from the WC.

That's a James Hosty admitted fact.

To Hosty, clearly his loyalty to his employer trumped his loyalty to the "whole truth" oath he took before giving his WC testimony.

And if Hosty made contradictory statements in his book versus his WC testimony this just adds to doubts about his truth telling veracity and credibility.

And I mention again, my hearing of Hosty saying in a radio interview about his book "Assignment: Oswald" ...
We ( the FBI and referring to the Warren Commission and their investigation ) had three of them - Ford, Russell..." and before he could mention a third person, he was cut off by the interviewer with another question totally unrelated to this astounding admission by Hosty.

Information vital to the JFK assassination investigation truth was withheld from the WC in Hosty's case, and which logically forces one to assume other incidents of this full truth withholding from him and others taking place as well.

Thanks, Joe.   I like your line of thought here.   I'm seeking data that links Hosty and Sorrels, here.   I think they worked together -- and any data that can show how closely they worked together from 1953 to 1963 in Dallas would be very interesting to me.

I didn't see your earlier post, however, about, Hosty saying, "We had three of them -- Ford, Russell, and..."  What was the question Hosty was answering?   

I agree that Hosty was more faithful to others than to his WC oath -- but I don't think the others were the FBI.   Hosty totally trashes the FBI in his book, Assignment Oswald (1996).   Instead, I think that James Hosty was "turned" by Robert Alan Surrey -- publisher of the WANTED FOR TREASON: JFK handbill that circulated around Dallas starting on October 24th, when Adlai Stevenson came to Dallas.

Hosty was loyal to the Dallas Radical Right.   I think I can show that.  Next I want to show that Forrest Sorrels was ALSO loyal to the Dallas Radical Right.

Edited by Paul Trejo
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On 10/1/2019 at 2:58 PM, David Butler said:

Hi Paul

On the New Document releases thread I posted about one about Sorrels which I thought was quite interesting in what it said about him and Hosty....I put the page numbers that are relevant in my post as not all of it is about Sorrels and Hosty

The relevant bit is this one -

Forrest Sorrels - bio and refusal to talk to the HSCA (pg 110 to 112)
-written report by Sorrels on questioning of Ruby on 24th November 1963 and why Ruby shot LHO.(pg 113 to 116)
-memo from May 1964 on the Cellar coffee house in Fort Worth (pg 117)
-written report by Sorrels 30th November 1963 on the meetings and preparation for JFK’s visit (pg 118 to 119)
-statement of Sorrels 29th November 1963 on the motorcade and hearing the shots “I heard what sounded like a rifle shot” (pg 119 to 120)
-rough draft memo from Mr Griffin and Mr Hubert on meeting Sorrels 22nd March 1964 - thought this was quite an interesting read - He was unwilling to state that he thought Ruby was telling him the truth. Ruby’s entrance to the basement to shoot Oswald and mistakes in handling the transfer. “Sorrels stated he was present during the latter part of the questioning of Oswald and that he was of the opinion that Oswald was beginning to loosen up” “a certain amount of ill will between the Dallas Police department and the Bureau” “Mr Griffin asked Mr Sorrels if it was his understanding that Hosty would indicate that the story he would give the Commission was a fabrication and Mr Sorrels indicated that he understood it could be Hosty’s attitude. He also indicated that he and perhaps others believed that if there were to be a fall guy within the Bureau, it would be Hosty” Sadly it tapers of and is incomplete but if you want to read it for yourself it’s pgs 121 to 124.

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32267344.pdf

Hi David,

Thanks for your interesting information about Dallas Secret Service agent Forrest Sorrels.  I clicked on the link you provided, and I read the parts you cited, and a bit earlier and later.   GREAT DOCUMENT.

Here's some of my feedback:

1. Sorrels' refusal to talk with the HSCA is valuable information, IMHO.

2. I'm not interested in Jack Ruby.  IMHO Ruby was an afterthought for the JFK plotters, because Oswald was supposed to be killed in Oak Cliff -- not J.D. Tippit. 

3. I'm not interested in the Cellar Coffee House scandal of the Secret Service.  IMHO -- having read all their WC testimony -- the White House detail of the Secret Service pursued business as usual.

3.1.  The Secret Service Protective Research Section (PRS) had done its job of meeting with the Dallas FBI to identify dangerous people in Dallas -- and they found none.  

3.2.  On November 14, in Dallas, SS agent Winston Lawson pushed Sorrels even harder, since he remembered the Adlai Stevenson incident in Dallas -- ONLY THREE WEEKS BEFORE.  

3.3.  IMHO, Sorrels gave Lawson a wild goose chase -- helping out the Dallas Radical Right.

4.  I was very interested in Sorrel's memo of November 28, 1963 (p. 120).  I searched for this on my own (because it is cited in his WC testimony) -- and then I read your post.  Thank you.  It's valuable because Sorrel's WC testimony repeats this memo almost word for word.  His WC testimony was clearly rehearsed.

5.  I was also very interested in that March 23, 1964 memo by Leon Hubert and Burt Griffin.  I was amazed that Sorrels told Griffin almost EXACTLY what he told the WC on May 6th and 7th.  He practically read a script!  

6.  BINGO on the combination of the names of Sorrels and Hosty in the Hubert/Griffin memo (p. 122).  This is the beginning of what I'm seeking.   I want more like this!

6.1.  As for the "ill will" between the DPD and the FBI, it was obvious given the scandal that hit the Dallas newspapers with regard to Lieutenant Jack Revill accusing Hosty of admitting to him privately that the FBI knew that Oswald was a Communist, dangerous, and working in the TSBD -- but refused to share that data with anybody.  There was but violence.

6.2. Yet I remain suspicious that Sorrels and Hosty would suddenly become distant after the JFK Assassination.  IMHO they cooperated very tightly before the JFK Assassination (though this was their dark secret, IMHO).

6.3.  So, I'm looking for any evidence that shows them working together from 1953 to 1963, while they were both living in Dallas, working for Washington DC in their current (1963) jobs.

6.4.  Nevertheless, it is amusing to read about Sorrels trashing Hosty -- calling him: "brusque," "supercilious" and "distrustful."

6.5.  Sorrels merely repeated the scandal of Lt. Revill when he spoke of Hosty's plan to claim "too busy" if confronted with Lt. Revill's accusations on the stand.

6.6.  It is very interesting that Griffin would ask Sorrels if Hosty would just "fabricate" answers to the WC.  In this memo, Griffin seems to distrust Hosty -- and seems to want to drive a wedge between Sorrels and Hosty.

6.7.  In my opinion, Sorrels was way ahead of Griffin.   Sorrels made up stuff about his good pal Hosty (IMHO) to pacify Griffin, perhaps.   Griffin told his superiors that he got "objective" data from Sorrels.  I'm afraid that Sorrels danced circles around Griffin.

6.8.  Certainly Sorrels was spot on that Hosty was the "fall guy" for the FBI.  The FBI backed Hosty all the way during the WC Hearings.  But soon after the WC Hearings were over, Hosty was demoted down to "stolen car" duty in Kansas City 

6.9.  Partly for this reason, I believe, Hosty trashed J. Edgar Hoover, Alan Belmont, the FBI, the CIA and the State Department for covering up the "real truth" about the JFK Assassination, namely, his CT of a  Communist Plot between Lee Harvey Oswald and KGB assassin Valeriy Kostikov!

6.10.  That's the very theme of his book, Assignment Oswald (1996), and it harmonizes with the Dallas Radical Right CT song, chord by musical chord.

7.  Sorrels memo to SS Inspector Kelly, of May 19, 1964, (pp. 117-119) only twelve days after his WC testimony, is again almost EXACTLY what he told the WC.  It seems scripted.  Like he worked with somebody.

Thanks again.

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On 10/2/2019 at 6:35 PM, Vince Palamara said:

FROM MY LATEST (FOURTH) BOOK "WHO'S WHO IN THE SECRET SERVICE" (2018), ALSO TO BE FOUND IN MY FIRST BOOK "SURVIVOR'S GUILT: THE SECRET SERVICE & THE FAILURE TO PROTECT PRESIDENT KENNEDY" (2013):

From an FBI report dated 11/27/63: “At approximately 10:30 p.m. today a telephone call was received from a female individual who refused to furnish her identity. She advised she is a member of the local theatre guild and that on numerous occasions she has attended functions or speeches where Mr. Sorrels, Head of the Secret Service, Dallas, has spoken. She maintained that Mr. Sorrels should be removed from his position as he was incompetent and did not have the ability to protect the president. She stated he was definitely anti-government, against the Kennedy administration, and she felt his position was against the security of not only the President but the United States. During the time this individual furnished the information set out above an effort was made to determine her name and address however she declined.” [Signed] Inspector Tom Kelley Secret Service 9:20 a.m. 12/2/63.” [FBI RIF#124-10164-10019]

---

I did deep research on Sorrels and all the Kennedy detail---see my first and fourth books.

During interviews conducted on 1/28/92 and 9/27/92, the 90-year-old former agent refused to discuss the JFK assassination. Sorrels would only say, “The Warren Report stands.”  Sorrels passed away 11/6/93.  A short and angry exchange. 

Vincent,

Extremely interesting material.   I should have obtained your first book long ago.  I fixed that tonight with an amazon order.

I'm impressed by your citation of White House Secret Service (SS) Inspector Thomas Kelley, which came to us through the FBI, five days after the JFK Assassination, at 10:30 AM.  Some woman, who refused to give her name, said she had attended several Dallas speeches by Forrest Sorrels.  She said that Sorrels showed no inclination to protect JFK.  She said Sorrels was plainly "against the Kennedy administration."  Evidently she was a Democrat, because she said that she considered Sorrels' attitude to be seditious. 

It is riveting that Inspector Kelly of the SS was willing to nail Forrest Sorrels of the SS, only five days after the JFK Assassination.   One gathers that Sorrels was not beloved in Washington DC in late November 1963.

This is the sort of material that I'm looking for -- evidence to align Forrest Sorrels with the Dallas Radical Right!   

Sorrels had lived in Dallas full-time since 1941 as SAC of the Dallas office of the Secret Service.   This means that Sorrels (who was no dummy) was aware of the prevalent politics of Dallas, from society men such as H.L. Hunt, all the way down to former jailbirds like Ex-General Edwin Walker.

In his book, Assignment Oswald (1996), Dallas FBI agent James Hosty (who'd served in Dallas since 1953) admits on  page 4 that his FBI assignment was to watch right-wingers -- including "General Walker and his Minutemen" in Dallas.   Walker had moved to Dallas in 1961, very likely upon the invitations of H.L. Hunt and the segregationist Reverend Billy James Hargis. 

Still, that was plenty of time for Hosty -- as well as Sorrels -- to become charmed by General Walker, as were so many on the Dallas (and US) Radical Right.

My hunch is that Sorrels was closer to James Hosty than he let the WC attorneys know.  Both were closer to General Walker than either told the WC.

Yet first I must establish that Sorrels was in the anti-JFK camp.   We get hints of it in his WC testimony, when he referred to JFK as "Mister Kennedy," exactly as the DMN Black-bordered Ad referred to JFK on 11/22/1963.  But nothing I've seen to date has equaled your citation.

Anyway, back to White House SS Inspector Thomas Kelley.   I'd known him only from his Warren Commission (WC) testimony (which is so boring).  Kelley told the WC about his participation in planning onsite re-enactment tests  at Dealey Plaza on 24 May 1964.  These were photos taken from the TSDB 6th floor (CE 875) showing a test car, instant-by-instant, as it drove down Elm Street from Houston Street.  

Your report by him, from December 2, 1963, never came up in the WC Hearings, you can bet on that.  Yet the one thing that US History has shown since Jim Garrison --  “The Warren Report does not stand!” 

It is significant that Forrest Sorrels refused to speak with the HSCA in 1979,  and refused to speak with you about the JFK Assassination in 1992.

Perhaps that was one symptom of his Survivor's Guilt.

Many thanks.

Edited by Paul Trejo
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On 10/3/2019 at 3:46 PM, Paul Trejo said:

Thanks, Joe.   I like your line of thought here.   I'm seeking data that links Hosty and Sorrels, here.   

I didn't see your earlier post, however, about, Hosty saying, "We had three of them -- Ford, Russell, and..."  What was the question Hosty was answering?   

Paul, Hosty wasn't answering a question. His comment about "We had 3 of them..."

just came up in his summarizing a part of the story involving the Warren Commission and his reflections on their work and his agency's involvement with them.

Don't you find Hosty's having lunch in a downtown cafe during JFK's motorcade ride through Dallas preposterous...as I do?

Wasn't part of Hosty's duty to track potential threats ( from that list he had mentioned ) to the President?

Wouldn't you think that someone in this position of Hosty's would be on highest security alert at the most vulnerable time for JFK, which was during his open top limo drive through Hosty's JFK hating town?

Didn't Hosty even care to see his President and Jackie in the flesh like everyone else in Dallas that day, and maybe even to some degree because JFK was our first Catholic president as Hosty was Catholic ?

Makes about as much sense as Jack Ruby hiding in the Dallas Morning News building the entire time of JFK's ( and his crush Jackie Kennedy ) motorcade ride through his city.

 

 

 

Edited by Joe Bauer
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On 10/3/2019 at 11:57 PM, Paul Trejo said:

Vincent,

Extremely interesting material.   I should have obtained your first book long ago.  I fixed that tonight with an amazon order.

I'm impressed by your citation of White House Secret Service (SS) Inspector Thomas Kelley, which came to us through the FBI, five days after the JFK Assassination, at 10:30 AM.  Some woman, who refused to give her name, said she had attended several Dallas speeches by Forrest Sorrels.  She said that Sorrels showed no inclination to protect JFK.  She said Sorrels was plainly "against the Kennedy administration."  Evidently she was a Democrat, because she said that she considered Sorrels' attitude to be seditious. 

It is riveting that Inspector Kelly of the SS was willing to nail Forrest Sorrels of the SS, only five days after the JFK Assassination.   One gathers that Sorrels was not beloved in Washington DC in late November 1963.

This is the sort of material that I'm looking for -- evidence to align Forrest Sorrels with the Dallas Radical Right!   

Sorrels had lived in Dallas full-time since 1941 as SAC of the Dallas office of the Secret Service.   This means that Sorrels (who was no dummy) was aware of the prevalent politics of Dallas, from society men such as H.L. Hunt, all the way down to former jailbirds like Ex-General Edwin Walker.

In his book, Assignment Oswald (1996), Dallas FBI agent James Hosty (who'd served in Dallas since 1953) admits on  page 4 that his FBI assignment was to watch right-wingers -- including "General Walker and his Minutemen" in Dallas.   Walker had moved to Dallas in 1961, very likely upon the invitations of H.L. Hunt and the segregationist Reverend Billy James Hargis. 

Still, that was plenty of time for Hosty -- as well as Sorrels -- to become charmed by General Walker, as were so many on the Dallas (and US) Radical Right.

My hunch is that Sorrels was closer to James Hosty than he let the WC attorneys know.  Both were closer to General Walker than either told the WC.

Yet first I must establish that Sorrels was in the anti-JFK camp.   We get hints of it in his WC testimony, when he referred to JFK as "Mister Kennedy," exactly as the DMN Black-bordered Ad referred to JFK on 11/22/1963.  But nothing I've seen to date has equaled your citation.

Anyway, back to White House SS Inspector Thomas Kelley.   I'd known him only from his Warren Commission (WC) testimony (which is so boring).  Kelley told the WC about his participation in planning onsite re-enactment tests  at Dealey Plaza on 24 May 1964.  These were photos taken from the TSDB 6th floor (CE 875) showing a test car, instant-by-instant, as it drove down Elm Street from Houston Street.  

Your report by him, from December 2, 1963, never came up in the WC Hearings, you can bet on that.  Yet the one thing that US History has shown since Jim Garrison --  “The Warren Report does not stand!” 

It is significant that Forrest Sorrels refused to speak with the HSCA in 1979,  and refused to speak with you about the JFK Assassination in 1992.

Perhaps that was one symptom of his Survivor's Guilt.

Many thanks.

Thanks! 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/4/2019 at 12:06 AM, Joe Bauer said:

(1)  Don't you find Hosty's having lunch in a downtown cafe during JFK's motorcade ride through Dallas preposterous...as I do?

(2) Wasn't part of Hosty's duty to track potential threats ( from that list he had mentioned ) to the President?

(3) Wouldn't you think that someone in this position of Hosty's would be on highest security alert at the most vulnerable time for JFK, which was during his open top limo drive through Hosty's JFK hating town?

(4) Didn't Hosty even care to see his President and Jackie in the flesh like everyone else in Dallas that day, and maybe even to some degree because JFK was our first Catholic president as Hosty was Catholic ?

(5) Makes about as much sense as Jack Ruby hiding in the Dallas Morning News building the entire time of JFK's ( and his crush Jackie Kennedy ) motorcade ride through his city.

Joe,

By the numbers:

1. I interpret James Hosty having lunch during the JFK motorcade as a sign of his contempt for JFK.  He claimed he loved JFK (Assignment Oswald, 1996) but he had to say something to his son, who helped him write his book.  His son probably didn't want to hear how much Hosty liked General Walker and Robert Alan Surrey.  In my reading, James Hosty "turned" in order to follow them.  They belonged to high Dallas society along with H.L. Hunt and Robert Morris.  All these people despised JFK.

2.  Hosty repeatedly insisted (Assignment Oswald, 1996) that he had no role at all in the JFK visit.   It wasn't the FBI job to protect JFK -- that was the Secret Service's job.   Alan Belmont said that.  J. Edgar Hoover said that.  They'd never allow the FBI to take the blame for the JFK Assassination.  The Secret Service was to blame 100%.  This got James Hosty off the hook, personally, but only for the Warren Hearings.  After that, Hoover demoted Hosty. 

3.  Yes, yes, yes -- if Hosty really wanted to do his job as an FBI agent -- and if Hosty truly loved JFK as he claimed he did -- then his behavior on 11/22/1963 would have been far different.   Hosty's blame of the Secret Service for the JFK killing is a major signal.  In my opinion, it tells us that Hosty cared very little for JFK -- and even supported JFK's enemies in Dallas.  

4.  Catholic or no Catholic, in my opinion, James Hosty hated JFK.   Hosty had joined the other side -- the Dallas Radical Right.   So, he was already a traitor to JFK, and that was one reason why Hosty could not bear to look upon JFK and Jackie.  Not only because his new "bosses" sorely hated JFK, but because he knew in his inner heart that he was doing the wrong thing by turning on the White House.

5.  As for Jack Ruby, the bizarre Dallas pimp, I see no role for him in the JFK Assassination.   (Jack Ruby was one player in the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald -- an entirely different crime.)   According to newsman Seth Kantor, the Dallas pimp Jack Ruby was conflicted inside himself on multiple counts.  The reason that Ruby couldn't bear to watch the JFK parade was buried deep within his wounded soul.

All best,
--Paul

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If Hosty truly "loved" JFK...

Then the LEAST you would expect him to do when JFK and his lovely young wife were riding through his home town ( a rare event that may not have happened again ) would have been to catch at least a glimpse of his beloved President in the flesh.

I didn't "love" JFK as much as I admired him, but I couldn't purposely avoid seeing him if and when he was driving so close by in my home town and it was easy to do so

If you loved the Beatles, would you pass up a rare chance to see them up close in person if you had the advance notice ability to do so?

JFK lover Hosty's diner lunch took precedence over this opportunity?

Again, preposterous.

Same with Ruby. Another one who professed to love JFK...Jackie anyway.

He claimed he stayed in the Dallas Morning News building all morning and even until he heard JFK was shot...because he didn't like crowds?

Ruby was constantly in crowds...boxing events, State Fairs, YMCAs, roller skating rinks, his own club and he then thrust himself into the DPD building all Friday night which would have made a true agoraphobic faint from hyper ventilating anxiety it was so crowded and frenetic.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Joe,

By the numbers:

 

2.  Hosty repeatedly insisted (Assignment Oswald, 1996) that he had no role at all in the JFK visit.   It wasn't the FBI job to protect JFK -- that was the Secret Service's job.   Alan Belmont said that.  J. Edgar Hoover said that.  They'd never allow the FBI to take the blame for the JFK Assassination.  The Secret Service was to blame 100%.  This got James Hosty off the hook, personally, but only for the Warren Hearings.  After that, Hoover demoted Hosty. 

3.  Yes, yes, yes -- if Hosty really wanted to do his job as an FBI agent -- and if Hosty truly loved JFK as he claimed he did -- then his behavior on 11/22/1963 would have been far different.   Hosty's blame of the Secret Service for the JFK killing is a major signal.  In my opinion, it tells us that Hosty cared very little for JFK -- and even supported JFK's enemies in Dallas.  

All best,
--Paul

Roger Craig also told us his boss Decker told his men in no way to assist in JFK's security.

Many other Sheriff Department officers affirmed this order by Decker so we know it's true.

I am sure Decker and Hosty knew how hostile many super right wing Dallas residents were toward JFK.

As hating as hot headed Cubans.

To a murderous degree based on the public rhetoric of the most right wing of Dallas's politically extreme ilk.

Both these men (Decker and Hosty ) saw the JFK threatening "Wanted For Treason" posters and newspaper ad.

They knew that Adlai Stevenson had been physically assaulted when he visited Dallas months earlier.

Did all of the security agencies in Dallas ever meet in one venue to discuss JFK's security?

They certainly must have agreed that their hometown was extremely JFK hating in high wealthy right wing political circles and with mentally unbalanced crazies who were rabid followers of their JFK hating venom.

The least the Sheriff's department and Hosty and his men could have contributed in the motorcade security plan was to act as spotters toward all the high rise open windows along the parade route. The threat of high building shooters was clearly understood and had to have been discussed.

Scanning these with binoculars as JFK was actually underneath them seems like it should have been a basic security maneuver.

Unequipped, untrained, uninstructed idly looking around bystanders on the streets of Dealey Plaza noticed men or a man with a rifle in the TXSBD building both before and during the shooting there.

Imagine what two or three binocular equipped security men whose job it was to scan those windows would have seen?

Edited by Joe Bauer
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1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

Did all of the security agencies in Dallas ever meet in one venue to discuss JFK's security?

 

Joe,

 

One of the most informative things I've read in a while is CD 852

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11249

DOD Bartimo Letter of 24 Apr 1964 with Attachments

Starting on about the third page or so of this document is a copy of

Army Regulation 195-10 which spells out how the Army was supposed to liaison with other agencies. It talks about the Army, Navy, Air Force and FBI, but interestingly enough, leaves out the Secret Service.

Basically Army Regulation 195-10 is a How to Manual for conducting investigations of armed forces personnel: Who's got responsibility, who's got control, how the information flows, etc.

Look at Paragraph (9)(c)(1)(a) on the bottom of Page 5 of this CD. It says how Army Commanders are supposed to establish policies to establish "effective liaison" with other agencies and specifically mentions the ATTU.

The idea was not to step on each other's toes, and establish contact with an individual that some other agency was working, e.g. informants. I think in CIA jargon, it was called the “third party” rule.

As I sit here, I don't know if the FBI or the ATTU has such a Regulation they were supposed to be operating under.

 

Steve Thomas

 

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