Jeff Carter Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 9 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: The Trump campaign colluded with Russians by definition. Could you explain what or where exactly in your long and disparate list of mundane deceits, evidence of “cooperation” or “conspiracy” arise, particularly as relates to the 2016 US election. Otherwise, you are not talking of “collusion.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Jeff Carter said: Could you explain what or where exactly in your long and disparate list of mundane deceits, evidence of “cooperation” or “conspiracy” arise, particularly as relates to the 2016 US election. Otherwise, you are not talking of “collusion.” Whack-A-Mole! That's for playing, Jeff. Better luck next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Carter Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: Whack-A-Mole! That's for playing, Jeff. Better luck next time. Nice deflection. But honestly, where in your list of deceit do you believe a cooperative, coordinated or conspiratorial effort involving election-interference activities was exposed? The only “catalogue of collusion” you have identified is three items from in a Time Magazine article, all of which were investigated thoroughly by the Mueller team with no resulting legal referral or even a description of resulting election-interference activity. No conspiratorial trail has been uncovered via the polling data. Flynn’s “lying” is well described in his indictment and it has nothing whatsoever to do with election-interference. Roger Stone knew no one at Wikileaks and had no back-channel. So what exactly are you driving at with your inferences? You seem to be insisting that something connected to Mueller’s purview was actually uncovered, but all you’ve got to show for it is persons tied to the Trump campaign communicating with persons with Russian surnames. I thought it was about alleged election interference, but it seems you are moving the goalposts to take in any petty and/or inconsequential activity by a motley collection of influence peddlers. Isn’t that a different discussion? This might seem arcane, but there is an epistemological issue here which is both current and cuts across the arguments over the JFK assassination and historical truth. Addendum: Cliff’s furious reargusrd action, fueled by the Time Magazine article, is a form of Denial akin to the Iraqi WMD true believers. The claim went on for several years that WMD was either actually found or spirited to Syria. Gradually the argument gave way to acceptance that the WMD never existed, but the proponents were simply mistaken but acted in good faith. Still in phase one of denial in this instance. Edited December 3, 2019 by Jeff Carter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 READ IT: Democrats’ House impeachment report against Trump https://www.rawstory.com/2019/12/read-it-democrats-house-impeachment-report-against-trump/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, Jeff Carter said: Nice deflection. Spare me, Jeff, all you do is deflect, spin, deny. I don't think you're capable of a good faith discussion on this topic. Kilimnik was loyal to the United States alone? Bad faith. You can't possibly believe that. Quote This might seem arcane, but there is an epistemological issue here which is both current and cuts across the arguments over the JFK assassination and historical truth. Given your denial that JFK was shot in the back at T3, you're one of the last people on earth entitled to lecture anyone about "historical truth." Edited December 4, 2019 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 (edited) Robert, It sounds like you're still wearing your MAGA Vision Goggles... 🤪 MAGA-Vision Goggles! They’re the only protection against the persuasive power of reality. Edited December 4, 2019 by W. Niederhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 4, 2019 Author Share Posted December 4, 2019 Scott Ritter was a hero in the run up to the phony Iraq War. This is a really interesting story because it shows something I was not aware of. But I am sure will be brought up in the senate. https://consortiumnews.com/2019/11/27/scott-ritter-the-whistleblower-and-the-politicization-of-intelligence/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 47 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said: Scott Ritter was a hero in the run up to the phony Iraq War. This is a really interesting story because it shows something I was not aware of. But I am sure will be brought up in the senate. https://consortiumnews.com/2019/11/27/scott-ritter-the-whistleblower-and-the-politicization-of-intelligence/ He conveniently skips the part where the DNI ran to the White House waving the complaint around before Congress could find out. And the White House told the DNI to spike it. Hmmm. Maybe I missed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 4, 2019 Author Share Posted December 4, 2019 Bob, that is not what I was talking about. But that's OK, I expected it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 4 hours ago, Robert Wheeler said: George Nader, come on down The Justice Department on Tuesday charged eight people - including a prominent political donor to both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump and a Lebanese-American businessman who was a witness in Robert Mueller’s investigation - with conspiring to conceal the source of more than $3.5 million in donations to Clinton. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/dec/3/george-nader-robert-mueller-probe-witness-conspire/ For reasons only a few here will appreciate, this is pretty important. Nader developed contacts with both U.S. presidential campaigns during the 2016 election, And kept Dmitriev abreast of his efforts to do so.996 According to Nader, Dmitriev said that his and the government of Russia's preference was for candidate Trump to win and asked Nader to assist him in meeting members of the Trump Campaign. -Mueller Report p 144 This is Naders gig. Funneling money for influence and is related to Fruman and Parnas. This particular conduit was for Mohammed Bin Zayhed I believe.I think Mueller refered it out because his concern was Dmitriev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said: Bob, that is not what I was talking about. But that's OK, I expected it. Nah I like Ritter just if he can't parse that little Diddy it brings the rest of the article into question for me. I now feel I have to fact check all of his assertions because he skipped a VERY important part of the story which, BTW, is about as partisan as it gets. The ADNI went running willy nilly to the subject of the complaint and the complaint got spiked. How do you expect any different of a reaction? It's not like he's ignorant. The statute calls for the DNI to refer it back to the ICIG (I'm pretty sure) if there's a disagreement NOT DOJ/WH Counsel and by so doing forewarned them and essentially obstructed the investigation and process. It's no small technicality. Of course Barr and Durham are running around taking false statements from those pinnacles of integrity Shokin, Kulyk and Lutsenko to reheat the Ukraine 2016 interference to provide cover for a conspiracy. Where's that outrage? Rudy and the Three Amigos tried to gin up some election interference for Trump by creating a false narrative using extortion! Hopefully there are more whistle blowers in Intel. Could of used a few for the old "Curve Ball-Yellow Cake" gag from Bush/Cheney (which Ritter is well acquainted with) partisan or not. Edited December 4, 2019 by Bob Ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 4, 2019 Author Share Posted December 4, 2019 Ok, now that you are done blaming the whole system on the White House: Do you think he is right about the whistleblower? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said: Ok, now that you are done blaming the whole system on the White House: Do you think he is right about the whistleblower? It's an interesting well thought out article on first blush but as I said I'll have to dive into it a bit. I'm not willing to agree or disagree until I do that, especially with someone I consider a trusted source but may have skimmed over an important point. For that I'll have to spend some of my rapidly disintegrating time equity haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 This is a giant scandal: Report points to Trump as the ringleader of a global conspiracy https://www.rawstory.com/2019/12/this-is-a-giant-scandal-report-points-to-trump-as-the-ringleader-of-a-global-conspiracy/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 On 12/2/2019 at 10:28 PM, Jeff Carter said: Addendum: Cliff’s furious reargusrd action, fueled by the Time Magazine article, is a form of Denial akin to the Iraqi WMD true believers. No WMD were found. Lots and lots of Trump-Russian collusion was found. https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/07/politics/donald-trump-jr-full-emails/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/exclusive-lone-dnc-hacker-guccifer-20-slipped-up-and-revealed-he-was-a-russian-intelligence-officer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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