Mark Zaid, JFK and Trump

[Dennis Berube]

4 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

I don't quite understand why nobody but John Bolton objected to Trump surrendering to the Taliban at Camp David. Why wasn't everyone up in arms about that one? He proposed doing it the week of 9/11. The Dems are so inept when it comes to pointing out the obvious. That should have really scarred his future alone IMO.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/09/politics/camp-david-donald-trump-mike-pence-taliban/index.html

According to Cee No News, at least Pence and Bolton openly disagreed with Trump, whom Trump overruled because he believes " "I always think it is good to meet and talk, but in this case I decided not to," the President tweeted Monday. But the main reason he "decided" that was surely because...

"Trump eventually scrapped the event after a Taliban car bomb killed a US soldier and 11 others last week. But that decision came after heated debate within the administration over the venue for the summit -- an outgrowth of larger, more substantial disagreements over the wisdom of negotiating with the Taliban at all. "

 

The Gary Powers incident immediately popped in my head when I read this. Sometimes the best we can hope for in 2019 is that evil fights evil, and if Trump is arguing with the likes of Bolton, Pence, and the US military commanders, I consider it a small victory. Notice that Pence represents a noticeably more hawkish position than Trump. Dangerous conditions for Trump, I'd expect more "scandals" to appear if the impeachment inquiry doesn't give the DNC choice (Biden/Warren) enough of an edge.

[Bob Ness]

2 hours ago, Dennis Berube said:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/09/politics/camp-david-donald-trump-mike-pence-taliban/index.html

According to Cee No News, at least Pence and Bolton openly disagreed with Trump, whom Trump overruled because he believes " "I always think it is good to meet and talk, but in this case I decided not to," the President tweeted Monday. But the main reason he "decided" that was surely because...

"Trump eventually scrapped the event after a Taliban car bomb killed a US soldier and 11 others last week. But that decision came after heated debate within the administration over the venue for the summit -- an outgrowth of larger, more substantial disagreements over the wisdom of negotiating with the Taliban at all. "

 

The Gary Powers incident immediately popped in my head when I read this. Sometimes the best we can hope for in 2019 is that evil fights evil, and if Trump is arguing with the likes of Bolton, Pence, and the US military commanders, I consider it a small victory. Notice that Pence represents a noticeably more hawkish position than Trump. Dangerous conditions for Trump, I'd expect more "scandals" to appear if the impeachment inquiry doesn't give the DNC choice (Biden/Warren) enough of an edge.

Yeah I just don't understand  Trump's "strategy" here. I suppose it's to claim he got us out of this idiotic situation, similar to Syria, but he was literally having the US surrender to a non-governmental group (terrorists?) that isn't officially recognized (that I know of). He's either incompetent or perhaps that's what Putin requires of him but one way or another I was outraged and don't understand why his opponents didn't flog him about it. I for one don't ever agree with Bolton except in this case.

[Bob Ness]

2 hours ago, Robert Wheeler said:

If the Turks are fighting The Kurds, and the Kurds are Fighting ISIS and ISIS are fighting Assad’s forces and we are fighting ISIS and Assad’s forces while, Russia fights ISIS as an Assad Ally, I see no other choice than to let this go for three or four more decades.

 

I realize the whole thing is ridiculous but for one, we opened that can of worms. Secondly, I wasn't real big on Assad dropping barrell bombs on civilians with impunity as Obama let him do.

Unfortunately nobody was listening to Powell when he warned everyone about the Pottery Barn rule. You break it, you buy it. He was so right. In Afghanistan, which was what I was talking about, at least there was some justification. Trump's solution seems to be to surrender to an adversary we've militarily defeated. At Camp David.

[Andrew Prutsok]

18 hours ago, Robert Wheeler said:

How many different ways can your narrative fall apart? 

BREAKING: #SDF Commander thanks

@POTUS

"for his tireless efforts that stopped the brutal Turkish attack" Gen Mazloum Abdi also says US promised "long term support at various spheres"

Don't suppose it's remotely possible #SDF Commander may be out of touch with his people?

[W. Niederhut]

57 minutes ago, Andrew Prutsok said:

Don't suppose it's remotely possible #SDF Commander may be out of touch with his people?

At this point, General Abdi's back is up against the wall.

Erdogan is demanding Abdi's extradition to Turkey, as a Kurdish "terrorist."

Little wonder that the General is suddenly "thanking" the Stable Genius in the White House.

But here's what Abdi had to say about Trump earlier this week...

SDF Chief: 'Our Trust in the United States is at Its Lowest'

https://www.voanews.com/extremism-watch/sdf-chief-our-trust-united-states-its-lowest

October 21, 2019

 

[Joe Bauer]

19 hours ago, Dennis Berube said:

 

 

 

19 hours ago, Dennis Berube said:

There were any number of competing development plans for the gas fields. Broadly, the difference in the plans is/was where to run the pipeline through to get the gas to the European market. The War in Syria is basically over pipeline rights of way. One contingent wants to go through Turkey, another via Cyprus. In either case, lots of Money is at stake. The Russians are involved because they are Western Europe's main gas supplier and stand to lose their monopoly.

Isn't it this natural resources agenda that explains the basic motivation of many if not most of our non-defensive heavy commitment military actions since the fifties and sixties and still today?

Alan Greenspan was referenced once as saying our invasion into Iraq was to secure their vast oil reserves and keep them under our control, lest Saddam H. favored selling his oil to China and Russia?

And not really to topple Hussein and "free" the Iraqi people from his brutality and finding and destroying WMDs.

We have been fighting over natural resources for decades.

I also read where Viet Nam was also a battle over their resources...rubber, oil, etc.

Since we have spent what...7 to 9 TRILLION dollars securing these natural resources rich locations since 2003...I wonder if the profits from these resources to our corporations who manage and sell these resources has ever come close to reimbursing American tax payers for this mind boggling expense?

And think what 7 to 9 TRILLION dollars infused back into our domestic needs could have accomplished?

It could have paid for free college education ( 4 years and even room and board ) for millions of our young people for 10 years easy.

As well as rebuilding our social security system, supplementing our national health care , creating a massive and meaningful opioid prevention and healing structure, physical infrastructure rebuilding everywhere including new energy systems, highways, train travel, schools, hospitals, roads, bridges, water and sewage systems, programs for educating more doctors, teachers, etc.

And all this positive and real world productive spending would result in the creation of millions of good paying jobs with this massive dollar amount infusion back home where we really need it.

Young people with better opportunity jobs than MacDonalds, 7-11 and Target are much more likely to be distracted from idle mind drug use.

Since WWII we have been fixated on a massive and ever increasing military spending rich orgy agenda with a real social need neglectful result.

Fact is, we are military rich ... and socially poor.

That is why we have fallen so far behind in dozens of World Health organization standard of living indexes when we should be at the top of all of these ... and especially with our young people losing out in areas of education, career and financial opportunity, physical and mental health, etc. imo.

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by Joe Bauer

[Paul Brancato]

That’s it in a nutshell Joe. Think of the tens of trillions of dollars sitting in offshore tax havens. The only real conflict is class, Rich vs the rest. And it’s pretty much always been that way. Sociopaths rule because they are better suited for it. What makes this business as usual reality so untenable now is that we’ve reached a stage in human history where the price of unchecked power is enormous, and it’s devastating the entire planet and it’s beautifully diverse life. It’s now a global emergency. The price of inaction is too high. Mass demonstrations are on the rise and will increase in intensity. The conventional wisdom is that when elites smell danger they give back a little out of necessity. But I don’t see that happening now. Wealth is ever more concentrated in the hands of fewer people at the expense of everyone and everything. In my view that’s because they can. Too many ways to control the masses. Romans called it bread and circuses. Now it’s cell phones and television. 

[W. Niederhut]

11 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

That’s it in a nutshell Joe. Think of the tens of trillions of dollars sitting in offshore tax havens. The only real conflict is class, Rich vs the rest. And it’s pretty much always been that way. Sociopaths rule because they are better suited for it. What makes this business as usual reality so untenable now is that we’ve reached a stage in human history where the price of unchecked power is enormous, and it’s devastating the entire planet and it’s beautifully diverse life. It’s now a global emergency. The price of inaction is too high. Mass demonstrations are on the rise and will increase in intensity. The conventional wisdom is that when elites smell danger they give back a little out of necessity. But I don’t see that happening now. Wealth is ever more concentrated in the hands of fewer people at the expense of everyone and everything. In my view that’s because they can. Too many ways to control the masses. Romans called it bread and circuses. Now it’s cell phones and television. 

Well said, Paul.

Sociopaths, like Trump and Putin, are adept at acquiring and wielding power on behalf of their oligarchs-- usually at the expense of the public good.

It's the diametric opposite of utilitarianism, as defined by John Stuart Mill in the nineteenth century, which seeks to achieve the greatest good for the greatest number.

The greatest achievements of liberal democracy in American history-- FDR's New Deal, and the JFK-initiated legislation of the LBJ years after 11/22/63, including Medicare and the Civil Rights Act-- were cut from the cloth of utilitarianism.

Trump-ism, (Reagan-ism, Bush-ism, etc.) in contrast, seeks to achieve the greatest good for the fewest people.

But Trump, like Reagan and the Bush clan, can only acquire power in democratic societies by tricking the masses into believing that they represent their interests-- through appeals to fear, xenophobia, race, (e.g., Atwater's Willie Horton ads) ethnicity, religion, or misguided notions of "patriotism."

In the past century, the ability of sociopaths like Trump and the Bush family to acquire and wield power on behalf of oligarchs has been greatly enhanced by techniques of modern mass media propaganda.

In Trump's case, his entire propaganda strategy for acquiring and maintaining power since 2015 has dove-tailed precisely with Putin's Gerasimov Doctrine techniques for engendering division and weakness in U.S. society.

 

 

[Joe Bauer]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Well said, Paul.

Sociopaths, like Trump and Putin, are adept at acquiring and wielding power on behalf of their oligarchs-- usually at the expense of the public good.

It's the diametric opposite of utilitarianism, as defined by John Stuart Mill in the nineteenth century, which seeks to achieve the greatest good for the greatest number.

The greatest achievements of liberal democracy in American history-- FDR's New Deal, and the JFK-initiated legislation of the LBJ years after 11/22/63, including Medicare and the Civil Rights Act-- were cut from the cloth of utilitarianism.

Trump-ism, (Reagan-ism, Bush-ism, etc.) in contrast, seeks to achieve the greatest good for the fewest people.

But Trump, like Reagan and the Bush clan, can only acquire power in democratic societies by tricking the masses into believing that they represent their interests-- through appeals to fear, xenophobia, race, (e.g., Atwater's Willie Horton ads) ethnicity, religion, or misguided notions of "patriotism."

In the past century, the ability of sociopaths like Trump and the Bush family to acquire and wield power on behalf of oligarchs has been greatly enhanced by techniques of modern mass media propaganda.

In Trump's case, his entire propaganda strategy for acquiring and maintaining power since 2015 has dove-tailed precisely with Putin's Gerasimov Doctrine techniques for engendering division and weakness in U.S. society.

 

 

Yes.

[Ray Mitcham]

Beware, America, Take it from somebody who was born whilst Hitler was still in power.

It starts with a group of supporters storming  legal meetings,  to try to stop them from operating. The next thing will be thugs attending legal political meetings and attempting to destroy the democratic process. 

Your President seems, to non Americans, to be styling himself on other global dictators. (Anybody noticed how much he physically resembles Mussolini?)

In his  own words, he is never wrong, he's the smartest guy in the country, he doesn't heed advice from his Generals and political advisors, who, if they give him advice he disagrees with, are fired. He ridicules opponents, is a misogynist, and a racist. (Anyone for a lynching?)

A President who picks on immigrants, (remember what happened to the Jews in the Third Reich?)

A President who believes he is above the law.

When a guy like Bolton dumps Trump, the warning lights should be flashing in American homes.

Remember Edmund Burke's wise words. "Those who don't know  history are destined to repeat it."

America,   your democracy is in great  danger.

 

From a concerned Brit.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Ray Mitcham

[Bob Ness]

34 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Beware, America, Take it from somebody who was born whilst Hitler was still in power.

It starts with a group of supporters storming  legal meetings,  to try to stop them from operating. The next thing will be thugs attending legal political meetings and attempting to destroy the democratic process. 

Your President seems, to non Americans, to be styling himself on other global dictators. (Anybody noticed how much he physically resembles Mussolini?)

In his  own words, he is never wrong, he's the smartest guy in the country, he doesn't heed advice from his Generals and political advisors, who, if they give him advice he disagrees with, are fired. He ridicules opponents, is a misogynist, and a racist. (Anyone for a lynching?)

A President who picks on immigrants, (remember what happened to the Jews in the Third Reich?)

A President who believes he is above the law.

When a guy like Bolton dumps Trump, the warning lights should be flashing in American homes.

Remember Edmund Burke's wise words. "Those who don't know  history are destined to repeat it."

America,   your democracy is in great  danger.

 

From a concerned Brit.

My feeling from day one, where you could see this coming, was the fourth branch would be his trip up. The bureaucrats, the level below political appointees is where the protection would come from, if needed. The Senate has been successfully cuckolded, the judiciary is in question and the HOR is limited in how far it can go.

[Joe Bauer]

Trump and the small minority group of people he represents with a 90% priority over the rest of us, have the White House executive branch. They have the Senate. They have the Supreme Court. They have the Attorney General. They have the FBI. They have the military for all practical purposes.

AND imo, they have the main stream media. With only MSNBC, somewhat CNN and NPR and Democracy Now as the only true Trump truth telling news outlets.

That leaves the Congress alone and on their own against these other equal government power groups and the mentioned accessory areas of influence.

Congress is surrounded on all three sides and then some.

Our main stream media...the biggies CBS,NBC,ABC etc should be calling for Trump's removal or resignation daily...front page stuff.

Like the 150 major newspapers across the country that called for Clinton's impeachment back in the 1990s on their front pages, including even the San Francisco Chronicle!

Trumps 100X worse...than Clinton.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Joe Bauer

[Jeff Carter]

For the record, the super-scary “Gerasimov Doctrine” amounts to a seven-year old 2000 word essay which appeared in a Russian trade paper. The essay identifies key features of modern informational warfare techniques and argues that an informed understanding of these techniques is vital to the modernization and reform of Russia’s defence sectors. Nothing in the essay functions as any kind of operational plan or “doctrine”. In fact, the concepts discussed can be found virtually mirrored in similar papers published by the US military, by NATO allies, by the Chinese, the Israelis, etc etc. That is, the “Gerasimov Doctrine” reiterates universally acknowledged, identified, and accepted modern programs of multi-dimensional informational and propaganda efforts. The elevation of such uncontroversial and common subject matter to a super-scary “Doctrine” is entirely a product of the imagination of the Politico author -a partisan political apparatchik with experience advising Russophobic politicians in former Soviet satellites. In other words, there is no “doctrine” and the author’s failure to contextualize the material she discusses in favour of presenting it as something uniquely sinister and Russian, makes the promotion of a faux “Doctrine” itself part of the informational warfare spectrum.

[James DiEugenio]

So, are you saying that the entrapment of George P is similar to Flynn's?

[W. Niederhut]

6 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Trump and the small minority group of people he represents with a 90% priority over the rest of us, have the White House executive branch. They have the Senate. They have the Supreme Court. They have the Attorney General. They have the FBI. They have the military for all practical purposes.

AND imo, they have the main stream media. With only MSNBC, somewhat CNN and NPR and Democracy Now as the only true Trump truth telling news outlets.

That leaves the Congress alone and on their own against these other equal government power groups and the mentioned accessory areas of influence.

Congress is surrounded on all three sides and then some.

Our main stream media...the biggies CBS,NBC,ABC etc should be calling for Trump's removal or resignation daily...front page stuff.

Like the 150 major newspapers across the country that called for Clinton's impeachment back in the 1990s on their front pages, including even the San Francisco Chronicle!

Trumps 100X worse...than Clinton.

 

         Yes, it's truly bizarre that so many Republican Congressmen, media moguls, and citizens called for Bill Clinton to be impeached for dissembling about a private, consensual sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky, only to express outrage about Trump facing an impeachment inquiry for dissembling about his private intercourse with Vladimir Putin.

        And Ray Mitcham's observations about the parallels between Trumpism/Trumpaganda and European fascism in the 1930s are very much on target.

       Professor Thomas Childers at the University of Pennsylvania has an interesting Great Courses lecture series on "Hitler's Empire" that focuses on the question, "Could It Happen Here?" (i.e., in the U.S.)   The parallels between Trumpism and the subversion of the Weimar Republic by the Nazi Party in 1932 and 1933 are frightening.

       We now have Trumpist goon squads obstructing Congressional hearings and threatening to shoot citizens who dare to question the criminal misconduct of their orange Fuhrer.

       

Edited October 27, 2019 by W. Niederhut