Kirk Gallaway Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) On 11/7/2019 at 7:26 PM, Pamela Brown said: Robert Wheeler said: "If I understand what you are saying, the Blue Blooded Bush's considered the Kennedys "vulgar" because they were new money, and recent immigrants, and Catholic. The Blue Blooded Bush's are now horrified by the exponentially outrageous vulgarity of the Trump family because their money is also new, they are also recent immigrants (none of Trumps grandparents were born in the USA), and at a total disregard for proper "breeding", even allow family members to marry Jews and Slavs. " Exactly, Robert. This premise is the keystone of Robert's research. This concept itself is a tool of diversion and enslavement. It's true, the true nature of the opposition is financial, but it's not deep. It's going on right in front to you. Given the conspiratorial mindset of helplessness and ineffectualness, This is going to be demystifying and will not be fun to hear because there's no obscure enemy you can't do anything about and it puts the responsibility squarely on all of us. I see 2 deep states proposed here. Both are lost in time. Yes it's true there was a big divide between new money and old money 50 years ago. But that doesn't really exist so much anymore. There's billionaires being made every day now. Look at the 3 richest people in the world that are American. Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, they all made it on their own. Bloomberg's father was an accountant for a dairy company. Ask them who they think the "powers that be" are and those guys would laugh in your face. And don't you think they'd know? They are the "powers that be". They're right in front of you. You have to decide if income equality is an important enough issue to you that you want to go after the lot of them. But that's another issue. The blue bloods with 200 year lineage that Robert is obsessed with, Their most productive activity of their 10th generation is probably playing polo. Do you think they care enough that they're completely controlling this overthrow of Trump? 100 years have gone by, the Kennedy's themselves are blue bloods now! Sure most of them love the Trump tax cuts. But they don't need them. They're set for generations no matter what happens. But even apart from his vulgarity, there's not much that Trump can do for them anymore especially since he lost the House. Then there is the governmental deep state. The deep state in the post WW2 era years ago was real and the product of a heyday where the U.S. was left completely standing after WW2,and came to control half the world's resources and a resultant burgeoning government bureaucracy fused with the enormous cash emerged. These were heady times, and great bureaucratic monarchs arose. You really think Clapper, and Brennan can compete with Hoover, Dulles and Helms? It's true we wouldn't agree with a lot of what these present guys think either. They are "spooks" They got where they are by being among the most vigilant people. But these guys are bureaucrats, There's an entire painstaking process that goes through 15 people in on everything that is done. Still, yes they can be corrupted. You see the results of the Executive poisoning the "Deep State" in Ukraine Gate. What fool could believe now that Trump has come to Washington to "drain the swamp". He held the "Deep State" in utter silence before a Deep State whistle blower finally exposed him. Now Trump's still trying to expose him. Whose held the power here? Trump's corrupted the Deep State for his own ends more than anybody. This is the story of an attempted Executive corruption of a subservient Deep State, that couldn't make a peep before an anonymous whistle blower! The reason why both the "blue blood deep state" and the "MIC bureaucratic deep state" have turned against Trump is the same. Because he's an as-hole! He uses people and treats them like sh-t. One thing I find common in any of Di Eugenio's,Jeff Carter or Roberts deep state theories are that they are devoid of any kind of human understanding of the Trump Presidency. Why would this be the result of any real conspiracy? Eventually it could be simply that the rest of us are fed up with him. Call it the hundred and first conspiracy, if you want. But it is that simple, it is that intrinsic. He doesn't inspire loyalty in anyone. Now hes admitted to impeachable offenses. He may gotten a pass before. But now, nobody feels that generous toward him. But it is the results of his own actions. FALLACY- that everybody was trying to get rid of Trump from day one. Yes, there are some, but the vast majority wanted to get behind their President. Because if things go well for him, they go well for all of us, and Trump was such a little known quantity, people weren't sure if we wouldn't see a Presidential Trump that was much different than the campaigner Trump. He could have almost been seen as a genius for successfully lowering the public expectation so low, people would be overjoyed at the most minimal amounts of human sincerity and some evidence, even the slightest clue that he cared about anything other than himself, his poll would have skyrocketed from people who wanted to believe that he was growing into the job, but he was unable to even deliver that. Here's a revolutionary idea. He actually could have stumbled into being an extremely popular President. If he worked with the Democrats about expanding the AC act, and an infrastructure bill. He could have also given the Republicans their massive tax cut, and Supreme Court justices(both which I completely disagree with)and he would have been seen as the outsider who broke the decade long Washington gridlock. He'd be a hero, and maybe would be facing an easy re election. But that isn't who Trump is. He was out to destroy everything Obama accomplished for no other reason than Obama accomplished it. He abandoned the Paris accord and the Iran Peace Treaty. And of course, to briefly reiterate what has already been said in one way or another many times. He wasn't an executive, but had tyrannical tendencies and wasn't fit for office. 'Peach Dat! Edited November 10, 2019 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Pickering Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) The Dems and Republican parties - and, as long as it clings to official narratives, the Greens - are barely concealed Pentagon contractors perenially vying for 2 and 4 year service contracts. The media, and, the local Pentagon players theatre troupes sprinkled in heavy numbers across every square hectare of this great land, provide to the gullible plausible reasons why this one, or, that one, or, a combination of this one, that one, or, the other one (the Greens), will win in imminently corruptible electronically-tallied elections - where the DOD takes all. As an aside, U.S. Captain Chuck Hagel went fresh from the military to heading a holding company with majority ownership in a computerized voting machine corporation - the type that keeps cheating into 'power' a steady stream of cheats, dumbasses and thieves - and, in all probability, himself into a Senate seat. Edited November 10, 2019 by Jon Pickering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 News flash for Trump defenders and how he's getting such a raw deal: Ellen Weintraub, Chair of the FEC: Well, we have over 30 complaints that are sitting in the House right now that allege foreign national money being spent in our elections. That is flatly illegal. And they are important allegations that the commission has previously said they would prioritize. But we can't address them right now. And we don't know. Some of them may be completely unsubstantiated, but some of them may be serious allegations that require investigation or sanction. The reason you may ask? Guess who (along with Senate Republicans) isn't appointing anyone to the FEC (a minimum of four are required for a quorum and there are 3) and currently has an MDA with subjects of some of the complaints? Common. You can say it now. Out with it! Several of the cases on which the FEC hasn’t acted involve America First Action, a pro-Trump super PAC mired in the Ukraine scandal congressional Democrats are investigating as part of their Trump impeachment inquiry. https://publicintegrity.org/federal-politics/fec-quorum-congress-trump-elections/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted November 11, 2019 Author Share Posted November 11, 2019 I hate to tell you this Bob, but the same complaint about foreign money was filed with the FEC over the Obama campaign. You don't even want to get into the Bill Clinton campaign on that one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_United_States_campaign_finance_controversy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Time to stick a fork in the Trump/GOP "Deep State Conspiracy Theory" alibi for Trump's Ukraine-gate extortion scam. We now have the testimony of multiple witnesses confirming that Trump withheld designated military aid from the Ukraine in an attempt to extort a Ukrainian black propaganda campaign against Joe Biden. Meanwhile, the Gaslighter-in-Chief and his GOP Goon Squad have continued their disinformation campaign and illegal retaliatory attacks on Trump's Ukraine-gate scandal whistleblowers. Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman was fired by Donald "Bone Spurs" today from his position as the National Security Council Advisor on European affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Robert Wheeler said: Nobody is asking. Nobody is guessing. Nobody cares. Now where is Doug Caddy and his aliens? Dark Journalist replayed clips last night of the episode where Doug says E. Howard Hunt told him that JFK was killed because of the Alien Presence. Not only was the attempted "throw" so obvious that he damaged his credibility, he damaged the credibility of any number of Deep State deniers here on this forum. Maybe even you Bob. I thought I was on double-secret probation with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: I hate to tell you this Bob, but the same complaint about foreign money was filed with the FEC over the Obama campaign. You don't even want to get into the Bill Clinton campaign on that one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_United_States_campaign_finance_controversy Yes. And it was adjudicated wasn't it? It was also investigated by the DOJ. And Obama's campaign reached an agreement and paid an administrative fine. Now, how is Barr doing on that investigation of his? You know, the investigation wherein the President of the Untied States held up money for the Ukraine in exchange for the Ukraininan President to announce an investigation on his primary democratic rival? He isn't investigating that is he? Nor will the FEC because Trump refuses to nominate commissioners. The reasons seem obvious to me. Unfortunately he's quite possibly in a MDA with Firtash (this is speculation at this point but wouldn't be surprising). To me that would seem like an awfully odd arrangement. I've also heard Barr is running around shaking down civilians to make claims about Biden's son since he hasn't been getting official cooperation or there's nothing there. I have to look more into that little gem. It may not be true, dunno. Edited November 11, 2019 by Bob Ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 26 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: Time to stick a fork in the Trump/GOP "Deep State Conspiracy Theory" alibi for Trump's Ukraine-gate extortion scam. We now have the testimony of multiple witnesses confirming that Trump withheld designated military aid from the Ukraine in an attempt to extort a Ukrainian black propaganda campaign against Joe Biden. Meanwhile, the Gaslighter-in-Chief and his GOP Goon Squad have continued their disinformation campaign and illegal retaliatory attacks on Trump's Ukraine-gate scandal whistleblowers. Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman was fired by Donald "Bone Spurs" today from his position as the National Security Council Advisor on European affairs. Alas, methinks Vindman may have a civil claim because the whistle blower laws I believe apply to him also. If he was reassigned maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 The President’s Joint Defense Agreement with the Russian Mob Source: https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/10/12/the-presidents-joint-defense-agreement-with-the-russian-mob/#top If we survive Trump and there are still things called museums around that display artifacts that present things called facts about historic events, I suspect John Dowd’s October 3 letter to the House Intelligence Committee will be displayed there, in all its Comic Sans glory. In it, Dowd memorializes a conversation he had with HPSCI Investigation Counsel Nicholas Mitchell on September 30, before he was officially the lawyer for Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, now placed in writing because he had since officially become their lawyer. He describes that there is no way he and his clients can comply with an October 7 document request and even if he could — this is the key part — much of it would be covered by some kind of privilege. Be advised that Messrs. Parnas and Fruman assisted Mr. Giuliani in connection with his representation of President Trump. Mr. Parnas and Mr. Fruman have also been represented by Mr. Giuliani in connection with their personal and business affairs. They also assisted Joseph DiGenova and Victoria Toensing in their law practice. Thus, certain information you seek in your September 30, 2019, letter is protected by the attorney-client, attorney work product and other privileges. Once that letter was sent, under penalty of prosecution for false statements to Congress, it became fact: Parnas and Fruman do work for Rudy Giuliani in the service of the President of the United States covered by privilege, Rudy does work for them covered by privilege, and they also do work for Joseph Di Genova and Victoria Toensing about this matter that is covered by privilege. Dowd might be forgiven if he immediately adopted the strategy that worked so well in guiding Trump through the Mueller investigation: just engage in a 37-person conspiracy to obstruct justice and name it a Joint Defense Agreement. Indeed, there are even similarities with current events. Then, John Dowd, Jay Sekulow, and Rudy Giuliani offered things of value to the others in the JDA — pardons — in exchange for their silence or even lies. Conspicuously, Toensing represented two people that — the Mueller Report seems to suggest — weren’t entirely candid in their testimony, Erik Prince (who managed to lose texts that explained why he was taking back channel meetings with Russians) and Sam Clovis (who sustained his lack of memory of being told that Russians were offering emails long enough for George Papadopoulos to change his mind on that front). Papadopoulos even managed to call Marc Kasowitz, when he still represented the President, to ask if he also wanted to represent a coffee boy with an inclination to lie to the FBI. The strategy all built to its successful crescendo when, instead of cooperating with prosecutors as he signed up to do, Paul Manafort instead figured out what they did and didn’t know, lied to keep them confused, and reported it all back through his own attorney, Kevin Downing, and Rudy to the President. It was never really clear who was paying the lawyers (aside from the RNC paying Hope Hicks’ lawyers and some other key staffers). And as details of Manafort’s lies came out, it became clear there was some kind of kick-back system to keep the lawyers paid. Still, Mueller never tied Manafort’s trading of campaign strategy for considerations on Ukraine and payment by Ukrainian and Russian oligarchs to the President. And so it may have seemed sensible for Dowd, in a bit of a pinch, to adopt the same strategy, with Rudy representing everyone, Dowd representing the Ukrainian grifters, and Kevin Downing even filling in in a pinch. It all might have worked, too, if Parnas and Fruman hadn’t gotten arrested before they managed to flee the country, headed for what seems to have been a planned meeting a day later with their sometime attorney Rudy Giuliani in Vienna, just one day after a lunch meeting with him at Trump Hotel across the street from the Department of Justice that was busy inking an indictment against the Ukrainians even as they paid money to Trump Organization for their meal. I mean, it still could work. Trump is still the President and DOJ, at least, will give some consideration to the attorney-client claims, so long as Rudy and Trump can maintain the illusion that Rudy is and was really doing legal work for the President. But something that Dowd may not have considered, before he sent a letter to Congress laying out an incestuous nest of ethical atrocities, is that by the time he sent the letter, DiGenova and Toensing were on the record as representing Dmitry Firtash, a Ukrainian oligarch who was named in some of the early search warrants targeting Paul Manafort. And in March, Rudy Giuliani went on the record to explain that Firtash was, “one of the close associates of [Semion] Mogilevich, who is the head of Russian organized crime, who is Putin’s best friend.” Yesterday, Reuters closed the circle, making it clear that Parnas and Fruman work for Firtash, the former as a translator for DiGenova and Toensing’s representation of Firtash. Firtash, by the way, is in Vienna, where Parnas and Fruman attempted to flee and where the President’s lawyer was planning to meet them a day later. Thus, when Dowd wrote Congress, explaining that Rudy worked for both Trump and the Ukrainian grifters, and the Ukrainian grifters worked for DiGenova and Toensing, he was asserting that the President is a participant in an ethical thicket of legal representation with a mob-linked Ukrainian oligarch fighting extradition (for bribery) to the United States. And all of that, Dowd helpfully made clear, related to this Ukraine scandal (otherwise he could not have invoked privilege for it). In other words, the President’s former lawyer asserted to Congress that the President and his current lawyer are in some kind of JDA from hell with the Russian mob, almost certainly along with the President’s former campaign manager, who apparently gets consulted (via Kevin Downing) on these matters in prison. If that weren’t all overwhelming enough, there’s one more twist. The reason Rudy was emphasizing the mob ties of his current partner in crime lawyering, Dmitry Firtash, back in March is because the President’s former former lawyer, Michael Cohen, shared a lawyer at the time with Firtash, Lanny Davis. Davis, the Democratic version of Paul Manafort, is every bit as sleazy as him (which should have been a huge red flag when Davis was parading Cohen around as a big hero). Curiously, at a time when Davis was also representing Firtash and Cohen was furiously trying to come up with some incriminating evidence he could tell prosecutors that might keep him out of jail, Cohen apparently didn’t mention Ukraine at all. Now, the lawyer that Cohen used to but no longer shares with Firtash claims he has some insight onto these Ukrainian dealings. That’s likely just a desperate effort to stay relevant. But who knows? Until then, John Dowd’s desperate attempt to make this scandal go away the same way he made the Russia scandal go away (if you pretend they’re not actually all the same scandal and thus even the past JDA strategy may end up failing) at the same time involved admitting, in a letter to Congress, that his former client and his then current not-yet-but-soon-to-be-indicted clients are in a Joint Defense Agreement with the Russian mob. Don’t take my word for it. Take John Dowd’s legal representation to Congress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Kirk Galloway said: Yes it's true there was a big divide between new money and old money 50 years ago. But that doesn't really exist so much anymore. It may be more accurate to say that the divide 'doesn't really exist' only to those who are on the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 (edited) Pam, I think you're just living 50 years ago. People are becoming billionaires in 5 years now. I've heard those 3 people I cited make as much as the bottom 50%, but I'm never sure of those stats. Ok, whatever inside track you have to their resentments. Do you have any evidence or specifics of the upper crust who are going to oust Trump from office because he's vulgar? Or not one of them? We'll completely leave out evidence of being the most corrupt president in U.S. history, that a significant portion of the populace may be concerned about. If Trump gets kicked out of office, or doesn't get re elected, it will be because of broad based support among the populace. Just like the advocacy of people on this very forum. Perhaps you heard it here first. Edited November 11, 2019 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 On 11/9/2019 at 8:53 AM, James DiEugenio said: Interesting piece by Jeff Morley: https://deepstateblog.org/2019/11/08/the-deep-state-isnt-a-conspiracy-its-a-political-faction/ Yes. Very interesting and about what I think is going on. Cigar chomping bureaucrats "protecting "us. For the first time in my life I agree with them. Hopefully the electorate forecloses on the need. I personally believe the Republican party is at fault, mostly. Their candidates keep wandering off the road and presenting us with deeply flawed candidates. I realize many would say the same about HRC but at least she has guard rails. Trump is off the ledge IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted November 11, 2019 Author Share Posted November 11, 2019 5 hours ago, Robert Wheeler said: In another era, they would have just shot The President. Former White House Chief of Staff John Kelly and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson tried to subvert President Trump’s wishes and justified their actions as trying to “save the country,” former United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley says. In a her new book, “With All Due Respect,” Haley recalls a closed-door meeting with Tillerson and Kelly where they ask her to join their effort to counter Trump. “Kelly and Tillerson confided in me that when they resisted the president, they weren’t being insubordinate, they were trying to save the country,” Haley wrote, according to CBS News, which got an advance copy of the new tome. https://nypost.com/2019/11/10/nikki-haley-says-john-kelly-and-rex-tillerson-tried-to-recruit-her/ Interesting story Robert. Thanks. I wonder why she left though? Did Trump offer he the State job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 I wonder if the Donald's next t.v. programme will be called " The Appenitentiaryist", in which a group of Republicans are tested to see who can stop him being sent down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: Interesting story Robert. Thanks. I wonder why she left though? Did Trump offer he the State job? Let's not forget that Nikki Haley is the ultimate Neocon shill. * She's a spawn of PNAC and the phony GOP "war on Terror." Her conduct as UN Ambassador was the diametric opposite of JFK's approach to a fair and balanced mediation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In addition to promoting Trump's sabotage of the Iranian nuclear disarmament treaty, Haley directly promoted the disinformazia about the false flag chemical weapons attacks in Syria, and Trump's "retaliatory" cruise missile attacks on Syrian government positions. * Don’t Call Nikki Haley a Moderate. She’s an Extremist on Israel, Iran, and Human Rights https://theintercept.com/2018/10/11/nikki-haley-resigns-un-ambassador/ Edited November 11, 2019 by W. Niederhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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