James DiEugenio Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 Dennis, I agree. What was so horrible about trying for detente with Russia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) Michelle Goldberg is right on. Democracy Grief Is Real Seeing what Trump is doing to America, many find it hard to fight off despair. By Michelle Goldberg Opinion Columnist https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/13/opinion/sunday/trump-democracy.html Edited December 16, 2019 by Douglas Caddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 The False Romance of Russia American conservatives who find themselves identifying with Putin’s regime refuse to see the country for what it actually is. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/false-romance-russia/603433/ December 12, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: The way the MSM leaped to support this Russia Gate narrative was really puzzling to me. 1) Trump fired his National Security Advisor Michael Flynn for lying about a conversation with the Russian ambassador. 2) Trump admited he fired James Comey in order to tamp down the FBI investigation into Russia/Flynn. 3) Don Jr. released the texts of an e-mail chain "Russia - Clinton -- Private and Confidential" https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/07/politics/donald-trump-jr-full-emails/ The Trump Tower meeting was the result of "secret cooperation" between the Trump campaign and Kremlin figures. Secret cooperation = collusion. Quote What made it worse is that this concept then engulfed and buried all the things Trump did that I thought were really objectionable, or at least should have been so. Who stopped Jim DiEugenio from writing an article about Trump over the past 4 and a half years? He reports being "engulfed" by RussiaGate, which is highly curious. DiEugenio has all the time in the world to launch barbs at Democrats but it's taken this long for DiEugenio to not yet write an article thoroughly eviscerating Trump? What pray tell is keeping him? Quote For example, his giveaway tax plan, the Pentagon budget, recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, appointments like Betsy DeVos, loading up the judiciary system with rightwing crazies, his non existent support for antidotes to global warming etc. etc. Trump's white supremacy doesn't rate a mention? Quote All of this was drowned out by Russia Gate. Jim DiEugenio has no one to blame but himself for not going after Trump ages ago. Quote Which now appears to have been a false alarm. Another guy who doesn't understand the word "collusion." "Russia - Clinton -- private and confidential" is the operative definition of "secret cooperation." Quote Not only was it a terribly missed opportunity, but it now provides a chance for the GOP to take advantage of a misfire. Jim DiEugenio missed the opportunity. Quote To say this was all badly played does not really do it justice. To refer to you as over-rated really doesn't do it justice. Edited December 16, 2019 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 To Michelle Goldberg: How did you feel about what was happening to America under Reagan and W? To Anne: What romance with Russia? The USSR/Russia has been portrayed as the Axis of Evil since Truman took office. When Kennedy, and then Nixon tried for detente, they were both removed. Reagan had an absolutely golden opportunity to forge a genuine detente with Gorbachev, and he let the hardliners wreck that moment. Gorbachev had gambled so much on the Iceland deal and then he lost and we saw what happened. The Neocons got their man in Yeltsin and he sent Russia back to the economic Stone Age. Russia is not a communist country anymore. And Putin was correct on Syria and we now know that Trump was intimidated by false intel to retaliate against Assad. This is how powerful the Neocons are. And that includes in academia. Anne Applebaum will will now find it easier to get books published as she advances her career in the ivory tower. About 80 per cent of the time, The Atlantic is only good for bird cage liner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 11 hours ago, Jeff Carter said: So it’s Greenwald’s pompous authorial tendencies and not the FBI’s abusing “it’s power in severe ways to subvert and undermine U.S. democracy” that’s the takeaway here... Along with the dismal performance of most of the American mainstream media, the past three years have seen concerted efforts to impose censorship on internet platforms and social media. Google and Twitter are aggressively removing or marginalizing information from both left and right margins as well as antiwar and anti-imperialist groups. Facebook came under concerted attack just a few weeks ago for its reluctance to do the same. This censorship regime is justified by reference to false narratives of Russian interference, conspiracy theory and fake news, against which the public must be “protected.” Soon enough it will be the democratic system itself that citizens need be protected from. Its been a psychic meltdown promoted by lies. (realize that sounds pompous too, but its still the case) Jeff, I thought you were going to converse about your thoughts about Trudeau. Why didn't show the paragraph in question Jeff? Anyway, You have to win a war of ideas . You have to be able to dispassionately communicate facts. That paragraph was everything I said it was. If you're originally from Moose Jaw Jeff, You probably like preachers, most of us don't. Oh contrare" Jeff, the message wasn't lost on me. It seems to be getting good media exposure. 'I'd think you'd be happy. I am. I use to like Glen Greenwald more, I still like him, but more often when I see him, he looks really run down, he gets really despondent, and pouty, and acts like a whiny little b-tch. Not that there's anything wrong with that! heh heh Granted, the last time I saw him was a couple of months ago. I thought at the time, he should check with his doctor, or take a vacation. The messenger is important, Jeff.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 We're now jumping to false narrative or alarm about "Russia Gate" that the IG report stated was properly predicated? Are we picking sections of the Mueller and Horowitz reports that criticizes those investigations and leaving the remainder conveniently ignored? That's a big jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said: Jeff, I thought you were going to converse about your thoughts about Trudeau. Why didn't show the paragraph in question Jeff? Anyway, You have to win a war of ideas . You have to be able to dispassionately communicate facts. That paragraph was everything I said it was. If you're originally from Moose Jaw Jeff, You probably like preachers, most of us don't. Oh contrare" Jeff, the message wasn't lost on me. It seems to be getting good media exposure. 'I'd think you'd be happy. I am. I use to like Glen Greenwald more, I still like him, but more often when I see him, he looks really run down, he gets really despondent, and pouty, and acts like a whiny little b-tch. Not that there's anything wrong with that! heh heh Granted, the last time I saw him was a couple of months ago. I thought at the time, he should check with his doctor, or take a vacation. The messenger is important, Jeff.. Greenwald would serve his message better if he wasn't running around with his hair on fire ridiculously overstating his case. I rather liked his points about the liberal MSM replacing journalists with former IC experts whose allegiances are in question (Brennan for one IMO). Once in that role their voices don't have to be questioned like they do in normal reporting. The problem is for me with the article was I was waiting for him to start in on Holocaust comparisons or Stalin or something (Comey, babies, pitchforks - you get the idea) instead of reading it to get a professional perspective without the nonsense. I'm not saying he shouldn't establish a voice but I had the same reaction as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 I find myself agreeing with most of the last page of posts. Which is weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 For an example I find my amigos Jim and Jeff are very binary. Maybe I can use an LBJ depiction of Gerald Ford. Let's say "walking" is realizing that Trump violated the constitution when he used taxpayer money as leverage to compel a foreign power to dig up dirt on his political rivals.which is the Democrat battle cry. And the procedural (17 (pts.) overstepping (including lies to obtain FISA warrants, etc.) which is the Republican battle cry is "Chewing Gum" .Where Jim and Jeff are perpetual gum chewers. I can both walk and chew gum at the same time and not feel at all conflicted. I notice a few other here are also very adroit at that. Than say I look down and see my fly is open , and zip it up, that would be akin to realizing, by Trump terminology, the obvious Trump connections to the only sh-t hole country he seems to care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Why do we focus on FBI procedural, even deliberate mistakes, when we have evil incarnate in the WH? Just how many of you are Trump supporters? Think it’s irrelevant? Not to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said: Why do we focus on FBI procedural, even deliberate mistakes, when we have evil incarnate in the WH? Just how many of you are Trump supporters? Think it’s irrelevant? Not to me. Procedural issues seem to be lonely items here until such time that it supports a Deep State view. "Process Crimes" are of negligible effect when it comes to dangling pardons, lying to investigators, intimidating witnesses and of course the infamously clear violation of federal statute by ordering counsel to alter evidence and obstruct justice (see McGahn). These we are told are meaningless technicalities but in fact call into question any down stream product especially after Flynn, Papadopolous and Manafort started getting shy with the Feds. It'salso curious that the President of the United States entered into a mutual defense agreement with virtually every potential subject and target of the inquiry including FIVE CONVICTED FELONS, a first in American history. Why does a President have to partner with felons to defend himself you may ask? The same reason salmon swim with other salmon would be the answer. Edited December 16, 2019 by Bob Ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 Paul: Maybe Kirk and Bob agree with you, but really, Trump is Evil Incarnate? That is a phrase I reserved for maybe Hitler. I mean really, how soon people forget about W, Reagan, and Nixon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said: Paul: Maybe Kirk and Bob agree with you, but really, Trump is Evil Incarnate? That is a phrase I reserved for maybe Hitler. I mean really, how soon people forget about W, Reagan, and Nixon. No I don't think he is evil incarnate but he could if he tried. The other three had two terms remember and after the first term it's "Katy bar the door" because there's no election penalty for him. He could very well act like a petulant child if he gets reelected and completely destroy any meaningful discourse in the country over important issues such as health care, tax policy, immigration, foreign policy and the like. He would do so because of his undeniable natural state of megalomania, sociopathy and narcissism combined with a completely misguided and malinformed understanding of what a democratic republic is and the Constitution which protects it's form. Trump could very easily slip into unimagined behavior bolstered by a morally corrupt Republican establishment who tremble with electoral fear at his every disapproval. There are sign posts that are easily recognized with Trump because, to his credit, he's not afraid to be who he is openly, which isn't a bad thing ordinarily and in this case has had warning sirens sounding since day one (Russia? if you're listening... etc"). Even if he loses in 2020 I wouldn't be shocked at all if he claimed the vote was rigged and refuse to step down. No doubt Nunes ,Gym Jordan and McConnell would be there to support him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Berube Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Paul Brancato said: Why do we focus on FBI procedural, even deliberate mistakes, when we have evil incarnate in the WH? Just how many of you are Trump supporters? Think it’s irrelevant? Not to me. How about zero Paul? Somehow, you, Kirk, Nieder, and that guy everyone ignores and others, seem to have the need to associate any statement that could imply anything other than trump is evil as confirmation of supporting him. This is simply wrong and badly missing the point. To be honest, seeing the predictable MSM article quoted in response by many here is getting quite tiresome and disappointing. The Russia bogey man narrative is ridiculous and has made many of you turn your backs on people who have done great work in this JFK/Cold war history field, its a shame. Edited December 16, 2019 by Dennis Berube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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