Bob Ness Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 4 hours ago, Jeff Carter said: ...rely on describing statistically insignificant activity as somehow “massive” and “extensive”. Well then Jeff that renders the study of a one month period of activity in 2017 that this report relies on less than useless doesn't it? Like in negative territory regardless of the intellectual mumbo-jumbo you're trying to state has meaning. You can't have it both ways. The activity was insignificant but this bunch of people were able to draw conclusions or hypotheses from the data? Yet on the other hand Intel agencies from six or more countries involving thousands of experts doing extensive data analysis with unlimited technical resources and corroborating evidence over a period of four or more years have no idea? Making sense of that is a heavy lift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 5 hours ago, Jeff Carter said: The authors are careful to address all possible variables, which adds credibility to their report. The sentence which you highlight is not representative of the accumulated analysis. And, again, notably, neither the intelligence community or the congressional committees refer to or commissioned any analysis whatsoever before asserting their maximalist interpretations, which in turn rely on describing statistically insignificant activity as somehow “massive” and “extensive”. To further add on to this... I think you're missing my point. I only passed quickly over your citation but what I came away with as far as it's main thrust (and yours) was that the messaging failed to move already convinced voters. As I've stated previously, messaging of this sort is used to identify a demographic and provide targeting, not influence (for the most part). I don't know about in Canada, but when I was young here it was highly offensive to ask a person how they voted. Sort of like asking how much money they make. Today we see this thrown around much more often. Anyone who reads these posts can pretty much tell where people here are and where they fall on the political spectrum. On Facebook, it's easy to tell a lot about a person simply by what they like, share, post, where they live, how old etc. By using this information, a highly targeted campaign, posing as a friendly like minded group, can let people know they don't need identification at the polling place, mail ins are good until November 20th, so and so looks to be going to win by twenty percent (stay home) etc. A 2,000 vote swing in Youngstown can swing all of the electoral votes in Ohio (not a real example). The call centers in Costa Rica I mentioned earlier did exactly that in Cleveland in 2004 IIRC (Standard Republican playbook I might add). It's now far easier and cheaper to do that sort of thing and has much better targeting due to Social Media and their selling of personal data for advertisers. Your assertion that the IRA campaign was insignificant (you deftly ignore organic campaigns) is wrong and I think that's been proven by the multitude of evidence provided to the SSCI and other sources. I know from my own experience that a campaign with significant resources can multiply the effects of good traffic analysis and prudent messaging many times, but the end result can be difficult to quantify unless you're the one reaping the benefits. Since Trump eeeked out an electoral win based on something like IIRC 77,000 votes in a few counties I'd say that's pretty effective. How much of it has to do with RF interference I don't know but since I've seen election cheating by Republicans before I wouldn't put it past them. Nobody should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Carter Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Bob, the relevant insignificance of the campaign can be determined by the dollar figures available for the IRA’s program, and the numbers of tweets and Facebook posts it generated as compared to total election related activity during the time period in question. These numbers can be found in Mueller Report, testimony by Twitter and Facebook representatives to Congressional committees, and the Symantec analysis - all of which is available online. There is no evidence that any kind of targeted effort directed at identified undecided voters took place. Everything about the IRA program is consistent with a commercial clickbait marketing scheme, which is exactly what the IRA does and did previously as conceded by all the available information, and there is no evidence that such a program was piggybacked with a malign voter influence campaign by Russian state agents. The idea that it was does not rise above a simple unproved and uncorroborated assertion - which nonetheless has achieved the mantle of “settled fact” with serious consequence (international tensions, arms buildups, censorship programs, generalized paranoia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Jeff Carter said: Bob, the relevant insignificance of the campaign can be determined by the dollar figures available for the IRA’s program, and the numbers of tweets and Facebook posts it generated as compared to total election related activity during the time period in question. These numbers can be found in Mueller Report, testimony by Twitter and Facebook representatives to Congressional committees, and the Symantec analysis - all of which is available online. There is no evidence that any kind of targeted effort directed at identified undecided voters took place. Everything about the IRA program is consistent with a commercial clickbait marketing scheme, which is exactly what the IRA does and did previously as conceded by all the available information, and there is no evidence that such a program was piggybacked with a malign voter influence campaign by Russian state agents. The idea that it was does not rise above a simple unproved and uncorroborated assertion - which nonetheless has achieved the mantle of “settled fact” with serious consequence (international tensions, arms buildups, censorship programs, generalized paranoia). Here's a Russian journalist's report on the "marketing group" you're speaking of. Keep in mind many journalists have been killed in Russia, so her going undercover there was particularly dangerous. She even got pictures and videos inside for ya Jeff! https://medium.com/dfrlab/the-russians-who-exposed-russias-trolls-72db132e3cd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) I hope Frazier isn't something other than what I had pictured him all these years. Just an innocently good person whose kind and generous nature is just who he was and is. Edited December 22, 2019 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) Interesting. I wonder if we're still going to see posts cited here. https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/20/21031823/facebook-twitter-trump-network-epoch-times-inauthentic-behavior Edited December 21, 2019 by Bob Ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 45 minutes ago, Robert Wheeler said: Update, December 20th at 3:51 PM ET: Updated to include that The Epoch Times denies any connection to The BL, and clarified that it is Facebook which is alleging that based on its own internal investigation. Yes, that's right, Facebook says they are connected. I gather they would know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) Deleted Edited December 21, 2019 by Bob Ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Robert Wheeler said: Admiral Rogers is dropping the hammer. https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/12/20/bad-news-for-coup-crew-former-nsa-director-mike-rogers-working-with-john-durham-for-several-months/ What if Snowden was CIA and was sent to spy on the NSA? Unattributed article? 1 hour ago, Robert Wheeler said: In the real world, FISA court judge declassifies letter excoriating FBI and other US Government Agencies for defrauding the court. Reveals that Horowitz referred FICA attorney for crimes criminal referral. ...but Vietnamese bots are the problem. https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/12/20/fisc-releases-previously-classified-judge-collyer-order-what-other-fisa-cases-was-kevin-clinesmith-involved-in/ Unattributed article? What gives? I find it interesting the author published ten articles in one day. Quite the writer. I also find it curious the site is behind a proxy for some reason. Why would they hide their identity Robert? Edited December 21, 2019 by Bob Ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Robert Wheeler said: What if Snowden was CIA and was sent to spy on the NSA? No sht, Sherlock. On page 33 in this thread: On 11/13/2019 at 12:43 PM, Cliff Varnell said: I don't think Mr. DiEugenio understands that Richard Nixon was trying to gain political control of the CIA. Nixon tried to get his hands on the CIA Family Jewels in regard to the BOP, and the overthrows of Trujillo and Diem. If he had succeeded, I doubt there would have been an improvement in the National Security State. Yeah, the CIA cut Nixon down. And Edward Snowden -- CIA operative -- managed to clip the wings of the NSA and the DEA in a spasm of intel community internecine warfare. Why be a stooge for either side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 .Father Kirk says But the Falun Gong is very spiritual! I like that! The Epoch Times is a multi-langubage newspaper[2] founded in 2000 by John Tang and a group of Chinese Americans associated with the Falun Gong spiritual movement.[3] Though the newspaper is known for general interest topics with a focus on news about China and its human rights issues, it has become known for its support of U.S. President Donald Trump and favorable coverage of far-right politicians in Europe; a 2019 report showed it to be the second-largest funder of pro-Trump Facebook advertising after the Trump campaign.[4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11] The newspaper is part of the Epoch Media Group, which also operates New Tang Dynasty Television (NTD).[7] The group's news sites and YouTube channels are viewed by NBC News as spreading conspiracy theories such as QAnon and anti-vaccination propaganda.[7] In recent years, the newspaper has also been noted for favorable coverage of the Trump administration, the German far right and the French far right.[9][54][4][5][7][11] According to a report by NBC News, The Epoch Times "generally stayed out of U.S. politics" before 2016, "unless they dovetailed with Chinese interests. Ben Hurley, a former Epoch Times employee until 2013, told NBC News that the newspaper was critical toward abortion and LGBT, and that Falun Gong practitioners "saw communism everywhere" including in figures like Hillary Clinton and Kofi Annan who were considered sellouts, "but there was more room for disagreements in the early days." Since 2016, according to NBC News, The Epoch Times has promoted favorable coverage of Donald Trump's campaign and presidency, and emphasized issues such as Islamic terrorism and illegal immigration to the United States. It has also emphasized "what the publication claims is a labyrinthian, global conspiracy led by [Hillary] Clinton and former President Barack Obama to tear down Trump. ***** It is a global conspiracy led by Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama in that order.! I've read that here before on this forum! They are supporters of Q Anon! and anti Vaccination ! Sign me up! Vacuous morons! ***** But that credo in conservative treehouse is even more awesome!!!!!! One person alone could never fill the void Andrew Breitbart leaves behind! Yes without him I am desolate!!!! We need a thousand Andrew Breitbarts!!!!!!! UH, OK, that would be easier. We need you to be Andrew Breitbart!!!! Who, me? I want you to be Andrew Breitbart!!!!! I am Andrew Breitbart!!!!! Uh, yeah Andrew...Get out of my face!... How's that for liberty?!!!!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 21, 2019 Author Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) From what I understand, Durham is going after Brennan. Boy does FISA need to be amended. Tens of thousands approved and only 12 turned down. Edited December 21, 2019 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) BREAKING NEWS ... for Robert Wheeler and Jeff Carter... Donald Trump Passes the "Duck Test" Once Again -- He's a Russian Asset “If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.” https://www.salon.com/2019/12/20/trump-administration-opposes-grahams-russia-sanctions-bill-after-meeting-with-kremlin-official/ December 21, 2019 Edited December 21, 2019 by W. Niederhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 Was at the AOC/Sanders rally in Venice today. Must have been 10,000 people there. Little or no media. As much as people like Sanders, they really love AOC. Probably because she is what HRC was not. If it was possible Bernie should pick her as VP. Off that rally plus some of the polls, I think Bernie has a really good chance of winning. Especially since California moved up its primary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: Was at the AOC/Sanders rally in Venice today. Must have been 10,000 people there. Little or no media. As much as people like Sanders, they really love AOC. Probably because she is what HRC was not. If it was possible Bernie should pick her as VP. Off that rally plus some of the polls, I think Bernie has a really good chance of winning. Especially since California moved up its primary. Yes, the corporate MSM blackout of Bernie's candidacy continues, but Common Dreams published a lead article tonight about the Sanders/AOC rally in Venice. https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/12/21/promising-radical-realignment-our-priorities-ocasio-cortez-tells-los-angeles-crowd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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