Truly and the Cover Up

[Guest]

It is either Truly in his FBI statement of Nov 22nd (4th thumb at the bottom) or it was Nat Pinkston 

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Bart Kamp

[James DiEugenio]

In other words, Truly got together with the FBI and started this whole second floor lunch encounter that Baker had already denied.

Therefore I think my entering assumption is correct, namely that it was Truly who gave Oswald's name to the police i.e. Fritz, and it was Truly who cooperated on this whole second floor lunch room encounter.

Is there any evidence that Truly was an FBI informant?  I mean, as Greg Parker dug up, those connections to Korth and Chennault would surely suggest it.

 

Edited October 21, 2019 by James DiEugenio

[Lawrence Schnapf]

and who gave the police the address for Oswald which was not listed on his TSBD employment application... 

[Guest]

I have found no evidence as such but he did appear to be a fine FBI collaborator nevertheless.

[James DiEugenio]

Pretty darn friendly if you ask me.  Man, they are almost hugging him. 

Larry, which address do you mean, the 605 one?

Edited October 21, 2019 by James DiEugenio

[Guest]

Hugging him? Yup more like a nazi collaborator if you'd ask me.

[Ron Bulman]

13 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

I myself would be interested in learning more about the relationship between Roy Truly and D.H. Byrd.

Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection

posted by Greg Wagner in the ROKC Forum 12/23/17

Roy Truly:

"Born August 9 1907.
·Began work for the Texas Book Depository in 1934 as head of the Miscellaneous Dept. – the same job Bill Shelley was filling in 1963
·Became superintendent in 1944 and at some stage was made a co-director of the company
·During WW II he held a second job at night at the North American Aviation Plant in Arlington by cutting down his hours at the depository."

 

“Corsicana Daily Sun” from Corsicana, Texas March 31, 1970 Page 10

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/41268447/

“The building (the Texas School Book Depository) is owned by the Dallas Trust Corp. The majority stockholder of the firm, Col. D. Harold Byrd, 69, has decided to liquidate some of his holdings.”

 

I tried to do a little research on the Dallas Trust Corp., but a simple Google search failed to yield any results.

 

John Simkin in the Education Forum December 2, 2006.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/8715-david-harold-byrd/

 

“In 1944 Byrd founded Byrd Oil Corporation and B-H Drilling Corporation. In 1952 Byrd established the Three States Natural Gas Company.

Byrd later sold Byrd Oil to Mobil and Three States to Delhi-Taylor. Byrd used this money to invest in aircraft production and established Temco. A company that employed Mac Wallace after he was convicted of killing John Kinser.”

 

Linda J. Minor writes in her blog: Quixotic Joust

http://quixoticjoust.blogspot.com/2011/06/other-uranium-explorers-in-texas-in.html

“Other Uranium Explorers in Texas in the 1950's “

“Jerrell Dean Palmer writes: "In 1952 the entrepreneur [Byrd] began to phase out Byrd-Frost and organized the Three States Natural Gas Company, which was purchased by Delhi-Taylor Oil Corporation in 1961."

https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/fby13

The United Press reported in mid-March of 1955: "Byrd Uranium Corp. had a new charter from Delaware Thursday making it a wholly-owned subsidiary of Byrd Oil Corp., President D. Harold Byrd said. The new company, authorized to operate in Colorado, Utah, New Mexico and Texas, will examine uranium prospects on the oil company's extensive holdings in the Rocky Mountain region."

 

It would have been during this period of time that George De Mohrenschildt's resume * reflects he worked for Three States Natural Gas in the Rocky Mountain area and in the Uintah basin.

 

* COL. LAWRENCE ORLOV: EDUCATIONAL AND PROFESSIONAL RECORD

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=7491#relPageId=3&tab=page

This is actually a resume of George DeMohrenschildt that he gave to Orlov in 1958.

“During the period of 1949 – 1959 acted as consultant on various projects, namely in Haiti, West Indies... for Western Hemisphere Oil Corporation; in France... for Three States Natural Gas Company...” “July, 1946 to January, 1949. Field Engineer for one year and then Chairman of Rangely Field Engineering Geological Committee, Colorado.”

 

Mac Wallace?

George DeMohrenschildt?

Roy Truly was a co-director in Byrd's company that owned the TSBD?

What other connections might there be out there?

 

Steve Thomas

 

I've read about Wallace working at Temco with Byrd as a part owner.  But not about Truly being a co director of Byrd's parent company for the TSBD.  Superintendent of the facility and operations is one thing.  Co director of the company that owned it would imply greater responsibility and a greater chance that he had a actual working relationship of some sort with Byrd, wouldn't it?

I'd never read about De Mohrenschildt working for Three States Natural Gas, owned by Byrd, either.

If you throw in him creating the Civil Air Patrol that brought together Oswald and Ferrie it makes one wonder about Byrd.

Next you add Byrd reportedly taking his first ever African hunting trip at the time of the assassination as I read somewhere years ago, if true.  If true could it be a case of Roy, I don't want affiliated with this, you let them do what ever they want.  I'm going hunting.  Speculation.

Then there's the window frame.  The "snipers nest" window frame Byrd supposedly had removed and mounted in his game or trophy room.  I read about it in a east Texas promotional magazine for one of the cities there in just the last couple of years.  It was being auctioned off or disposed of in an estate sale, in Dallas???   Anyway a local business had obtained it and put it on display.  But I digress from Truly.

Addendum.

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Ron Bulman

[Andrej Stancak]

There is one possibility that Lee Oswald was Prayer Man and the second floor lunchroom encounter happened. In that scenario nobody lied. The possibility is the one suggested by Bill Kelley right there on page 2 of the original thread started in August 2013. It may be possible that Lee heard the excitement when the motorcade turned to Dealey Plaza and walked fast from Domino room to the glass door and then out. He was photographed there as Prayer Man by Wiegman and Darnell and after staying in the doorway gor some 40 seconds or so he returned to the building with an intention to find out how bad his situation was, e.g. where was his rifle. He may have searched through the two closets, one on the first floor and the other on the second floor next to the passenger lift and not finding it he continued walking toward the stairs in the back of the building. At that moment he heard voices and steps and decided to take a refuge in the second floor lunchroom. Officer Baker appeared to enter the building only after first checking the fire escape route. I am working on a more precise timeline of this scenario, however, would be interested in knowing opinions of other debaters.

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Andrej Stancak

[Ron Bulman]

On 10/21/2019 at 2:04 AM, James DiEugenio said:

Hasan Yusuf is an underrated researcher and writer.

His take on Roy:

http://jfkthelonegunmanmyth.blogspot.com/2013/01/roy-truly-truly-interesting-character_14.html

Mr. Truly

 

No, no; not complete. No, I just saw the group of the employees over there on the floor and I noticed this boy wasn't with them. With no thought in my mind except that I had seen him a short time before in the building, I noticed he wasn't there.

[Steve Thomas]

On 10/21/2019 at 5:11 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Pretty darn friendly if you ask me.  Man, they are almost hugging him. 

Larry, which address do you mean, the 605 one?

Jim,

 

The Elsbeth address could have come in one of two different ways:

1) is through the FBI. Hosty told the WC that he had known of the Elsbeth St. address as far back as March of 1963. LHO , was brought back to police headquarters around 2:00 PM or so, and even though Hosty didn't get there until 3:00 or so, Bookhout was already there and could have called back to the office to see if the FBI had anything on this Oswald guy.

2) The other way the police could have gotten the Elsbeth address was via the Lumpkin to Crichton to George Bouhe pipeline. Bouhe had Oswald's Elsbeth address as far back as November, 1962, and we know that Crichton had an inside line on info to the White Russian community because of his call to Mamamtov looking for an interpreter.

Revill wrote a memo to Gannaway about Oswald around 3:00 or 3:15 PM and used the Elsbeth St. address, so we know they had it as early as that, but I don't know that the police got it via Roy Truly.

 

Steve Thomas

 

[Michael Cross]

9 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Jim,

 

The Elsbeth address could have come in one of two different ways:

1) is through the FBI. Hosty told the WC that he had known of the Elsbeth St. address as far back as March of 1963. LHO , was brought back to police headquarters around 2:00 PM or so, and even though Hosty didn't get there until 3:00 or so, Bookhout was already there and could have called back to the office to see if the FBI had anything on this Oswald guy.

2) The other way the police could have gotten the Elsbeth address was via the Lumpkin to Crichton to George Bouhe pipeline. Bouhe had Oswald's Elsbeth address as far back as November, 1962, and we know that Crichton had an inside line on info to the White Russian community because of his call to Mamamtov looking for an interpreter.

Revill wrote a memo to Gannaway about Oswald around 3:00 or 3:15 PM and used the Elsbeth St. address, so we know they had it as early as that, but I don't know that the police got it via Roy Truly.

 

Steve Thomas

 

Presumably LHO also filled out employment paperwork after the being hired.  He may not have listed the address on the application, but could have listed it on his w-4, employee file, etc.  Do we have copies of all employment docs?

Edited October 23, 2019 by Michael Cross
spelling

[Steve Thomas]

Deleted

Edited March 3, 2023 by Steve Thomas

[Paul Jolliffe]

On 10/21/2019 at 11:51 PM, Ron Bulman said:

I've read about Wallace working at Temco with Byrd as a part owner.  But not about Truly being a co director of Byrd's parent company for the TSBD.  Superintendent of the facility and operations is one thing.  Co director of the company that owned it would imply greater responsibility and a greater chance that he had a actual working relationship of some sort with Byrd, wouldn't it?

I'd never read about De Mohrenschildt working for Three States Natural Gas, owned by Byrd, either.

If you throw in him creating the Civil Air Patrol that brought together Oswald and Ferrie it makes one wonder about Byrd.

Next you add Byrd reportedly taking his first ever African hunting trip at the time of the assassination as I read somewhere years ago, if true.  If true could it be a case of Roy, I don't want affiliated with this, you let them do what ever they want.  I'm going hunting.  Speculation.

Then there's the window frame.  The "snipers nest" window frame Byrd supposedly had removed and mounted in his game or trophy room.  I read about it in a east Texas promotional magazine for one of the cities there in just the last couple of years.  It was being auctioned off or disposed of in an estate sale, in Dallas???   Anyway a local business had obtained it and put it on display.  But I digress from Truly.

Addendum.

 

Ron, 

According to O.V. Campbell, the wrong window was removed. Campbell quoted Truly who accompanied the carpenter team that removed the window on Byrd's instructions, the the westernmost window on the sixth floor was removed, not the one in the southeast corner.

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/WindowAuthenticity001.pdf

 

Now, as to Jim DiEugenio's question about Truly, well Roy Truly never gave a coherent reason for suspecting "Oswald" within minutes of (supposedly) clearing "Oswald" in the infamous 2nd floor lunchroom encounter with Marrion Baker.

Since I doubt that (lunchroom) encounter occurred in the manner described in the Warren Report, Truly's actions a few minutes later become much more psychologically plausible - he was prepared to point the finger at "Oswald." 

Only later did Truly have to help invent the lunchroom encounter story, which upon examination, not only fell apart from a timing perspective, but also never made any sense psychologically!

If the lunchroom encounter at 12:31 ish was real, then Truly could never have accused missing "Oswald" of complicity just a few minutes later! Truly did not then, nor did he ever formulate a reason to suspect "Oswald" of anything at that moment!

Yet we know that Truly did point the accusing finger at "Oswald" so therefore, the lunchroom encounter never happened . . .

Edited October 24, 2019 by Paul Jolliffe

[Steve Thomas]

On 10/23/2019 at 12:28 PM, Michael Cross said:

Presumably LHO also filled out employment paperwork after the being hired.  He may not have listed the address on the application, but could have listed it on his w-4, employee file, etc.  Do we have copies of all employment docs?

Michael,

 

That's a good question.

Roy Truly told the WC, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/truly1.htm

"So I told him if he would come to work on the morning of the 16th, it was the beginning of a new pay period. So he filled out his withholding slip, with the exception of the number of dependents.
He asked me if I would hold that for 3 or 4 days, that he is expecting a baby momentarily.
So some 4 days or so later--I don't remember the exact day--he told me that he had this new baby, and he wanted to add one dependent.
He finished filling it out. And I sent it up to Mr. Campbell who makes out the payroll for the company.
Mr. BELIN. Now, on October 15th you saw him fill out the application form for employment in his own writing?
Mr. TRULY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. You also saw him fill out the withholding slip, except for the number of exemptions, in his own writing, is that correct?
Mr. TRULY. Yes, sir."

 

I don't think I've ever seen Oswald's TSBD W-2 form.

 

Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

On 10/21/2019 at 9:27 AM, Steve Thomas said:

I myself would be interested in learning more about the relationship between Roy Truly and D.H. Byrd.

John Simkin in the Education Forum December 2, 2006.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/8715-david-harold-byrd/

 

“In 1944 Byrd founded Byrd Oil Corporation and B-H Drilling Corporation. In 1952 Byrd established the Three States Natural Gas Company.

Byrd later sold Byrd Oil to Mobil and Three States to Delhi-Taylor. Byrd used this money to invest in aircraft production and established Temco. A company that employed Mac Wallace after he was convicted of killing John Kinser.”

 

I just ran across this in looking for something else, and thought I'd pass it along:

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/B%20Disk/Boxley%20Memos%20Miscellaneous/Item%2006.pdf

4. J. CARLIN BRANDT, chief, accounting clerk for Mobil Oil, moved from 601 N. Ewing St. in 1963 to 223 S. Ewing, Jack Ruby’s apartment house. Brandt is the name of the prime suspect in the Minute Man recruitment effort in the Matamorros bar six weeks before the assassination who told Alan Dale’s informant that the Minute Men had a contract to kill JFK. The latter Brandt - one John Brandt, combination gunsmith and Minute Man from the Ray Brantley circle in Dallas, a former employee of Brantley’s, dropped out of directory listings after the assassination, and Penn Jones advises via Mary now that John Brandt is living covertly at 2960 Colfing Green, Farmers Branch, Texas, another widely recognized residential area of Dallas, which was a hot-bed of anti-castro speeches and activities prior to the assassination. At the time of the killing, JOHN 3RANDT was living at 801 Rindie, Irving. He was given a job by LING-TEMPCO-VAUGHT, than disappeared about a year ago, ostensibly for an operation, and went into his present hiding in Farmers Branch.

 

Steve Thomas