W. Niederhut Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said: I prefer Trump Ausfahrten. LOL. 😄 I think der Trump Ausfahrten has something to do with gas-lighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: LOL. 😄 I think der Trump Ausfahrten has something to do with gas-lighting. Is "aus" German for "ass'? (if it isn't it should be.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 46 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said: Is "aus" German for "ass'? (if it isn't it should be.) In Trump's "Ausfahrten" case, an exception should be made, considering his major daily contributions to the general Stinkenluft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said: "Regime change" has become a bit of a buzzword of Breitbart on the right and the left Peace movement. I don't agree with all your examples, it's true, in the Korean War, though not a regime change war, there are questions about if the ends justify the means. But there was and are a great many South Koreans who are glad we fought in that war, and there's standard of living now just completely demolishes the totalitarian North. But you're example of South Viet Nam, Do we really want to re litigate that? Your assertion is technically true. but doesn't answer why we we're down there in the first place. Re: Afghanistan, ,As I've said before, no matter how big a peacenik you think you are, there's no way an American President could have been inactive in prosecuting 911, and hope to get re elected. That's just American political reality. Iraq war was a regime change war, pure and simple, and a purely elective war by GWB, and PNAC etc. He was under no political pressure to do that. I don't quite get what you're saying. I'm not a "peacenik" nor am I trying to justify any of the mentioned wars. You seem to agree that Korea and Vietnam and Afghanistan were/are not regime-change wars, but you give other reasons why they were fought. Those reasons are irrelevant to my point. Tulsi needs to stop calling everything a regime-change war, especially if it's a buzzword from something like Breitbart, because voters (except for Breitbart readers) will know that she's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ron Ecker said: I don't quite get what you're saying. I'm not a "peacenik" nor am I trying to justify any of the mentioned wars. You seem to agree that Korea and Vietnam and Afghanistan were/are not regime-change wars, but you give other reasons why they were fought. Those reasons are irrelevant to my point. Tulsi needs to stop calling everything a regime-change war, especially if it's a buzzword from something like Breitbart, because voters (except for Breitbart readers) will know that she's wrong. No I agree with your conclusions, and I wasn't specifically calling you a peacenik, Ron. I called regime change a "buzzword" or buzz phrase. Most of our wars have not been regime change wars. But of course there are other reasons for us not to engage in war. I provided no support at all politically or otherwise for the Viet Nam War. Edited November 23, 2019 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Tulsi may be just using a buzzword, but it won't get her elected. If she started saying something like our wars are fought to enrich the military industrial complex, she would be right on. I know that the "military industrial complex" is just an Eisenhower buzzword, but it's one that reflects reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 At first I loved Tulsi Gabbard. I thought her big heart was on full display. It may be there still, but her ability to articulate and nuance her views are poor. I think what lies behind all of this is that dividing Democrats and liberals along a left right axis has an effect different than one might think at first glance. Yes, of course, the progressives in the caucus are trying to move beyond the old status quo - American exceptionalism, interventionist Foreign policies, weak support for domestic policies that really help the less fortunate. But signing on to conspiracy theories that paint the DNC and or the Clintons with the same brush as the Republican Establishment actually weakens progressives because it makes it harder to bring about concensus. We don’t like the Clintons? Yeah me neither. But compared to the Bush dynasty you bet I do. Clinton bashing has been an active deep state operation for a few decades, and making her into the spokesperson for the Deep State is absolute nonsense put forward by covert operatives and echoed, very unfortunately, by prominent lefties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted November 25, 2019 Author Share Posted November 25, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Couteau Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 (edited) Wow. Thanks for posting this Jim. My fav follow-up tweet, from @modmondays"Absolutely telling that Tulsi is the only candidate this century that understands WTF was going on in the last half of the last century. It is an absolute joke that she even has to share the stage tonight with these other buffoons and fakes." I should add that I also admire Bernie. But there sure is a lot of fakery on that stage and plenty of reason to get worked up about it. At this point I'll be glad just to see Trump defeated, even by the local dog catcher. But Tulsi is reminding us about something that too many have forgotton. Something about honorable goals and leadership. Edited November 27, 2019 by Rob Couteau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 7 hours ago, Rob Couteau said: At this point I'll be glad just to see Trump defeated, even by the local dog catcher. It will get real interesting if Trump is defeated but refuses to leave. We know not to underestimate how looney he is. He could just declare electoral fraud and say his defeat was a hoax. And anyone who disagrees can talk to Rudy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Price Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 At this point Trump has removed/replaced so many people in the governmental hierarchy with acolytes of "Der Fuhrer" and subjugated so many through fear of the liberal mob plotting a coup since day one of his administration, the very apt words of Michael Cohen may soon be considered visionary (as in nightmarish). Cohen warned that he feared Trump would not relinquish power peacefully. Cohen understands that Trump has so much to lose if he no longer has the power of the Presidency, that he will go to any extent necessary to retain power. I have the same fear for our country. I am no great historian, but have read and seen enough to see the parallels of Hitler and the Nazi's in Germany. They were essentially a minority as well, but when fronted by a charismatic corrupt leader who promised a return to earlier glory, placed "true believers" in high office and proceeded through fear and violence to purge any opponents. He too, was viewed as "the chosen one" by those he raised up to serve. Consider the following possibility: if Ruth Bader Ginsburg dies or is incapacitated prior to the election date, he won't have to say "go talk to Rudy", he will be absolutely insulated by all the "Trump judges", the Senate of the US (assuming the current class of Republicans retain their advantage) and an adoring 30% of the populace. The populace and Senate have already confirmed their fealty. The judges, in particular, the Supreme Court is still to come to their "time of judgement" and may be the country's last hope. JFK's book "Profiles in Courage" shows that one man (person) can hold the balance of democracy in their hands alone. But many times that person must sway the outcome by convincing others of the greater good for the country vs a personal/political victory. I think we may have reached the point at which there is no one to convince on the " new right" and Trump and his followers are very adept at driving a wedge between the "left" and "centrist" factions thereby deriving a majority by commanding his 30-40% of the population. Many of those persons who consider themselves members of the "right" or conservatives have already left and made clear that Trump followers have deserted their core values. Thoughts, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Ron Ecker said: It will get real interesting if Trump is defeated but refuses to leave. We know not to underestimate how looney he is. He could just declare electoral fraud and say his defeat was a hoax. And anyone who disagrees can talk to Rudy. Followed by lawsuits, endless appeals, fictional narratives, and obstruction of investigations by crooked Billy Barr's Department of Justice Obstruction (DOJO.) How did the former CIA lawyer who orchestrated the Iran-Contra pardons for GHWB muster the 53 GOP votes for his Senate confirmation to run Trump's DOJO -- with scarcely any honest MSM coverage of that historic chicanery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 11 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: How did the former CIA lawyer who orchestrated the Iran-Contra pardons for GHWB muster the 53 GOP votes for his Senate confirmation to run Trump's DOJO -- with scarcely any honest MSM coverage of that historic chicanery? Corruption rules. But don't worry. Any day now Trump is going to drain the swamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted November 27, 2019 Author Share Posted November 27, 2019 Ron, In my view I do not think she is talking about regime change wars in the historical sense, that is going back to say WW I. I think she is mainly addressing the more recent ones. Perhaps since Reagan. Is anyone going to say that Nicaragua was not designed as regime change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 23 hours ago, W. Niederhut said: Followed by lawsuits, endless appeals, fictional narratives, and obstruction of investigations by crooked Billy Barr's Department of Justice Obstruction (DOJO.) How did the former CIA lawyer who orchestrated the Iran-Contra pardons for GHWB muster the 53 GOP votes for his Senate confirmation to run Trump's DOJO -- with scarcely any honest MSM coverage of that historic chicanery? Could there also be a Trump Body Count? First there was Epstein, and now: https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/former-deutsche-bank-executive-who-oversaw-trumps-loans-dies-by-suicide/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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