Dealey Plaza Tourism Advice?

[W. Niederhut]

   I'm in Texas this week, and I'm looking forward to visiting Dealey Plaza for the first time ever.  (I'm a late comer to the JFKA research literature.)

    I noticed that Dealey Plaza is, apparently, the #1 tourist attraction in Dallas, but it sounds like the TSBD museum has been organized as a PR exhibit for the false Warren Commission narrative.

    Any advice for a Dealey Plaza pilgrim?

[Harvey Brammer]

Its still worth a visit to the museum.I would definately go.

[John Butler]

Definitely worth the visit.  This is a view of the interior.

and a view of Houston.  This is too steep for shooting for in front of the TSBD.  Even though more than 50 witnesses is where they said the president was when they heard shooting.

This is the approved view for shooting.  Actually, one window west.  They have the area of the Sniper's Nest glassed in.

 

[Ron Bulman]

Do the museum, a lot of interesting stuff to observe but keep in mind, as you kind of allude to regarding the PR bit it is in essence the Oswald did it alone museum.  I think there may have been one exhibit that mentioned something about some people not fully agreeing with the Warren Omission.  Wander through the souvenir shop, nothing about a possible conspiracy there either.  Seems like they might have had something like Case Closed, been six years since I was last there.  They do (or did) have copies of newspapers of the day for sale if you want a souvenir.  I did buy a USS John F. Kennedy cap.

Go down and stand on the curb between the two X's and think for a minute about being that close on that day.  Look back up at the sixth floor SE corner, the grassy knoll, the Dal-Tex building and the top of the Records building.  Go behind the picket fence and look at the X's, fish in a barrel for an expert?  Walk over to the railroad tower in the back parking lot for Lee Bowers perspective of what he said he saw, and maybe what he didn't say.  Go to the corner of the railroad overpass and the fence to view the X's from where some speculate a shooter might have been.  Walk onto the overpass over Elm for Sam Holland and the railroad workers view.  Walk on until your over Commerce to see where James Tague was nicked and his view.

Walk up to the corner of Elm and Houston, remember the front entrance to the TSBD has been re configured.  On around the corner to the plaque with the word alleged underlined by visitors scratching.  Cross the street and stand under the second window of the former Dal-Tex building and look back down Elm.  Go in the ice cream shop for a water, soda or tea and look out the window down Elm.

[John Butler]

And, walk over to the Old Red Courthouse on Main St.  Just east of the court house is the rather strange Kennedy Monument.

 

[Joseph McBride]

Hang out on and behind the Grassy Knoll. Crouch behind

the concrete retaining wall in the firing position. Explore the overpass and the parking

lot. Look at the possible firing position from the storm drain

next to the overpass. If possible, go in the drain on Elm Street,

as Penn Jones helped me do, though I doubt there was a sniper there,

even if the shot was possible. Look at Lee Bowers's tower. Look at the other buildings

around the plaza. Stand in the Mary Ann Moorman and Babushka Lady positions.

One thing I never understand is people going to Dealey Plaza

who say, "It's so much smaller than I expected." It was exactly

the size and dimensions I expected from seeing the photographs and films.

The Sixth Floor Museum is a farce. It's worth visiting to study the basic

(remaining) layout of the building and the propaganda, but the last time I went I zipped

through it so fast that a security guard asked me why I didn't linger longer,

and I said I knew it well and saw all there was to see. The alleged sniper's nest

is inaccessible behind Plexiglas. Before they made it inaccessible, comedian Bill Hicks said the most honest part of the

floor display is the window, because Oswald is not in it. The convoluted angle from

that window is part of what they don't want you to see. Hicks describes it

hilariously in his video on YouTube.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Joseph McBride

[Joe Bauer]

If I ever get to Dealey Plaza, I would also like to position myself exactly where Arnold Rowland and Carolyn Walther were standing on Houston Street just after noon on 11,22,1963 when they claimed they saw a man with a rifle ( Walther says she saw two men with rifles ) standing in and clearly visible to them through a window or windows on the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository building or, as Walthers mentioned, the third or fourth floor.

I want to see how close the distance was between these two eye witnesses and the windows in the Depository where they testified under oath they viewed a rifle holding man or two men.

My guess ( because I reenacted this distance in my own home town with windows in a 6 or 7 story building like the TXSBD one) is that the view of a person standing just inside such windows is closer than most would assume from the stated distance from this that Rowland and Walthers testified they were.

Also, the noon time sun shining directly on the TXSBD on 11,22,1963 was very brightly illuminating the entire Houston/Elm side of the TXSBD, which made it easier to see details of anyone in those windows versus a non-sun facing - in the shade building and it's windows imo.

I think this was why both Arnold Rowland and Carolyn Walthers were able to describe what they saw with such details as skin tone, hair color, shirt and coat colors, etc.

The entire Elm street side of the TXSBD building at noon on 11,22,1963 could not have been illuminated any better than if they had a major Hollywood film premier search light shining on it.

I have always believed the testimony of these two Depository rifleman spotting witnesses.

Even though I think Walther's got the exact floor number wrong.

And as I have mentioned many times, to think that multiple bystanders in Dealey Plaza that day see a rifle bearing man or men in the windows of the TXSBD just minutes before JFK's arrival there, and not one security person sees this, turns your stomach.

Rowland and Walthers, and who knows what other bystanders who saw a rifle bearing man or men in the TXSBD that day, were not looking for this, they weren't trained or ordered to look for this and yet they all saw the gunmen without the enhanced aid of binoculars!

Couldn't have some part of JFK's security that day in Dallas thought of posting at least a few higher window parade route watchers with binoculars as JFK passed underneath? Or positioned even one man to be on the rooftops of most of those multi-storied buildings along the route?

Of course not. Too easy to do.

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Joe Bauer

[Ron Bulman]

Grassy knoll behind the fence is a given.  Second floor Dal-Tex is like setting in a tree stand hunting deer as a teen.  Slight elevation for a clear view, less than a hundred yard shot.  JFK's back shot and a miss hitting Connally's  arm pit, following the rib, exiting the nipple?  Back shot Almost simultaneous with the throat shot?  Time to reload?  Thoughts over the years, speculation.

Then the Coup de Ta from the right front, resulting in back and to the left? 

[Cory Santos]

Go around noon so you can see the shadows and how easy to would have been to conceal someone in the surrounding trees.

[Joseph McBride]

Coup de Ta? 

[Ron Bulman]

7 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

Coup de Ta? 

No habala espanyole.  Oops wrong language.  Spell check didn't save on that one. My French is obviously even worse than my Spanish.  You'd think I would know how to spell it as the book COUP  D ETAT in America (binding) or COUP D'ETAT (cover)  is on the shelf behind me.  Then again Wikipedia spels it Coup d'état  while Websters capitializes the D.

Guess I should have just said putsch.   

Edited December 10, 2019 by Ron Bulman

[David Andrews]

If he'd gone to New Orleans, they could have given him the Coodie Gras.

[Ron Bulman]

56 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

If he'd gone to New Orleans, they could have given him the Coodie Gras.

Is Harry Pitts from New Orleans?

[David Andrews]

And, walk over to the Old Red Courthouse on Main St.  Just east of the court house is the rather strange Kennedy Monument.

It's a visual metaphor for all the stonewalling in the case.

[Rick McTague]

W.,

Welcome to Texas!  Having been to DP several times (I go once a year), I avoid the Museum and the multiple vendors.  I try to go on a sunny Friday.  East of DP on Elm, there is a tiny little joint where you can get incredible diner burgers around lunch time which is when I usually go.  Then, I walk it off in DP.  I always walk down the Elm street extension in front of the TSBD building, behind the pergola and behind the picket fence in the parking lot (where Lee Bowers saw all the automobile activity) and to the triple underpass walkway.  Walking south over the TUP, you get a great perspective (ala Sam Holland and his coworkers) of the entire area.  I always go clear to the south end, near the south knoll which you cannot access but you can see how the cars coming down Elm curve and you can get Sherry Fiester's trajectories in perspective.

As you look down about 20' from the end of the walkway, you will see where James Tague was standing.  I then go back to the north, and you can get better ideas of how cars coming down Elm line up and also how they line up with the TSBD 6th floor.  I walk slowly behind the length of the picket fence, keeping the marked locations on Elm in view.  Realize that the trees are 56 years older than they were back then.  I stand near Zapruder's position (once I climbed up there that was cool) and take video/pics.  

You won't be alone!  Sadly, there will be idiots running into traffic on Elm and SMILING as they get their pics taken on the "X" spots.

I would note the storm drain on Elm on the south curb where Roger Craig was standing and a slug (.45 acp?) was found and confiscated.  I have also tried to get to James Altgen's position on the south side of Elm to align back to the TSBD ala Altgens 6.  Try to place the yellow painted curbs in the kill zone on Elm also.

It's a darkly fascinating place; I park on Elm in a lot near the diner I mentioned and then drive straight down in the center lane just like the limo did after the turn off Houston.  

The other places of note in this thread are also excellent ideas.

Take a lot of pics - I always do.  

Hope this helps!

Thanks and enjoy your trip!

Edited December 11, 2019 by Rick McTague
Typos