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How Intel & Military Interact in Clan Ops


Al Carrier
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Tosh, I think it is time to take this a step further…

In the fall of 1981, one of several blocks of instruction on Counterinsurgency was given at SOA in Ft. Benning that focused on insertion of operational personnel into a specific region in Central America by utilizing indigenous personnel, financing these operational procedures by way of narcotics trafficking and gunrunning to counterevoloutionary elements within the region. The class was attended by some twenty-five subjects dressed in fatigues without rank or unit insignia who were all dark haired, brown eyed and tanned skinned, but spoke the English Language with no or little accent. They all carried a military bearing and were disciplined not to small talk amongst each other. Whether they had Latin descent or not, they could all pass for indigenous personnel and were all obviously US military personnel. The class was instructed by one Edwin Wilson, a ?former? CIA employee who was wanted at the time by the US for selling C4 and rockets to Lybia. With Wilson, was CIA employee Thomas Clines and another CIA employee who would later come under indictment twice in the Iran/Contra Hearings and walk on both charges. The latter not named for reasons that will not be commented on.

The students in the class would attend together other courses of specific nature to counterinsurgency including; Latin American Cultures, Spanish Linguistics Specific to the Region, Implementation of Coercion Tactics that involved Execution by scoped rifle, explosive ordinance and contact torture and execution.

The manual issued out in the specified courses was the Clandestine Operational Manual for Central America. It referred to both true operational and false operational cover procedures. Elements of indigenous personnel were to be utilized for access to targets and for blame of operational success and failure as a hands-on participant, when they were not. Organized crime would be utilized for financing and money laundering of such operations and could also be utilized to blame for such operations.

What does this have to do with the Kennedy Assassination of 18 years earlier, it is to put it into perspective with the evidence that is surfacing and the connections those are making to link non-American Personnel to the hands-on operation in DP.

Al

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Tosh, I think it is time to take this a step further…

In the fall of 1981, one of several blocks of instruction on Counterinsurgency was given at SOA in Ft. Benning that focused on insertion of operational personnel into a specific region in Central America by utilizing indigenous personnel, financing these operational procedures by way of narcotics trafficking and gunrunning to counterevoloutionary elements within the region. The class was attended by some twenty-five subjects dressed in fatigues without rank or unit insignia who were all dark haired, brown eyed and tanned skinned, but spoke the English Language with no or little accent. They all carried a military bearing and were disciplined not to small talk amongst each other. Whether they had Latin descent or not, they could all pass for indigenous personnel and were all obviously US military personnel. The class was instructed by one Edwin Wilson, a ?former? CIA employee who was wanted at the time by the US for selling C4 and rockets to Lybia. With Wilson, was CIA employee Thomas Clines and another CIA employee who would later come under indictment twice in the Iran/Contra Hearings and walk on both charges. The latter not named for reasons that will not be commented on.

The students in the class would attend together other courses of specific nature to counterinsurgency including; Latin American Cultures, Spanish Linguistics Specific to the Region, Implementation of  Coercion Tactics that involved Execution by scoped rifle, explosive ordinance and contact torture and execution.

The manual issued out in the specified courses was the Clandestine Operational Manual for Central America. It referred to both true operational and  false operational cover procedures. Elements of indigenous personnel were to be utilized for access to targets and for blame of operational success and failure as a hands-on participant, when they were not. Organized crime would be utilized for financing and money laundering of such operations and could also be utilized to blame for such operations.

What does this have to do with the Kennedy Assassination of 18 years earlier, it is to put it into perspective with the evidence that is surfacing and the connections those are making to link non-American Personnel to the hands-on operation in DP.

Al

Al; I am glad to see that someone has came to the plate and pointed out a few important matters concerning "Black Operations" (if I may use an overworked phrase) The specifics you mentioned are foundations which must be understood if one is to follow the lineage of field personal and why these "Cells" of specialized operatives are trained in the manner that they are.

When I attended these "familiarization" programs or (Covert Action Training Programs, CATP) that the manual was written from, I found Cubans, Iran, Tibet, and ? V.C. in those training classes, as well as personal from Angola.

Ed P Wilson, Tom Klines, Eugene Toffaya (sp) and others, of which I am sure you know, were engaged in the art of sabotage and sniper tactical training to various small groups within these cells. Others were assigned to "Illusionary Warfare Tactics", (IWT) LHO attended one of these type classes in 1959 at Nags Head NC before going over to Japan with the ONI.

Some of these military specialized operatives with their secret MOS's of the 1979-81 era, were from Iran and Afghan and Central America, and Egypt. Two Latin Americans from Eden Pastroa's small group, before Pastroa took command as Captain Zero, were engaged in the SOA Benning sniper school as well as a few of the "Mosquito Indians" of northern Nicaragua.., This was one of the first test units formed.

The training book was being written at that time. This type of training was being conducted very hush-hush and did not follow any of the 'OLD' manuals that had previously been written. (1953-54) This 'testing' school threw away all the old manual material and started all over. In some ways this was the start of training a secret army to operate independent specialized CIA projects off the books.

Should we bring it up another notch?

Edited by William Plumlee
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I've got a question for you guys:

During late 81 and early82 while I was helping Jimmy Hall train the San Fransisco Tactical Response Team at the old Hamn's Brewery I was approached by two men, one claiming to be a former SOA trainer and another who claimed to be a contract agent for Massad, and both claiming to be recruiters for Mitch Werbell's Cobray School. They wanted me to join up with their Field-Craft training operation.

Now I know quite a bit about Mitch's background but I always sort of concidered the Cobray school to be a playground for weekend warriors and wannabe mercs so I declined the offer. But , after closely following your postings I'm wondering if I was correct in my initial assessment or was there a lot more to the school than I was led to believe?

Thanks in advance for your input ;)

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Tosh, I think it is time to take this a step further…

In the fall of 1981, one of several blocks of instruction on Counterinsurgency was given at SOA in Ft. Benning that focused on insertion of operational personnel into a specific region in Central America by utilizing indigenous personnel, financing these operational procedures by way of narcotics trafficking and gunrunning to counterevoloutionary elements within the region. The class was attended by some twenty-five subjects dressed in fatigues without rank or unit insignia who were all dark haired, brown eyed and tanned skinned, but spoke the English Language with no or little accent. They all carried a military bearing and were disciplined not to small talk amongst each other. Whether they had Latin descent or not, they could all pass for indigenous personnel and were all obviously US military personnel. The class was instructed by one Edwin Wilson, a ?former? CIA employee who was wanted at the time by the US for selling C4 and rockets to Lybia. With Wilson, was CIA employee Thomas Clines and another CIA employee who would later come under indictment twice in the Iran/Contra Hearings and walk on both charges. The latter not named for reasons that will not be commented on.

The students in the class would attend together other courses of specific nature to counterinsurgency including; Latin American Cultures, Spanish Linguistics Specific to the Region, Implementation of  Coercion Tactics that involved Execution by scoped rifle, explosive ordinance and contact torture and execution.

The manual issued out in the specified courses was the Clandestine Operational Manual for Central America. It referred to both true operational and  false operational cover procedures. Elements of indigenous personnel were to be utilized for access to targets and for blame of operational success and failure as a hands-on participant, when they were not. Organized crime would be utilized for financing and money laundering of such operations and could also be utilized to blame for such operations.

What does this have to do with the Kennedy Assassination of 18 years earlier, it is to put it into perspective with the evidence that is surfacing and the connections those are making to link non-American Personnel to the hands-on operation in DP.

Al

Al; I am glad to see that someone has came to the plate and pointed out a few important matters concerning "Black Operations" (if I may use an overworked phrase) The specifics you mentioned are foundations which must be understood if one is to follow the lineage of field personal and why these "Cells" of specialized operatives are trained in the manner that they are.

When I attended these "familiarization" programs or (Covert Action Training Programs, CATP) that the manual was written from, I found Cubans, Iran, Tibet, and ? V.C. in those training classes, as well as personal from Angola.

Ed P Wilson, Tom Klines, Eugene Toffaya (sp) and others, of which I am sure you know, were engaged in the art of sabotage and sniper tactical training to various small groups within these cells. Others were assigned to "Illusionary Warfare Tactics", (IWT) LHO attended one of these type classes in 1959 at Nags Head NC before going over to Japan with the ONI.

Some of these military specialized operatives with their secret MOS's of the 1979-81 era, were from Iran and Afghan and Central America, and Egypt. Two Latin Americans from Eden Pastroa's small group, before Pastroa took command as Captain Zero, were engaged in the SOA Benning sniper school as well as a few of the "Mosquito Indians" of northern Nicaragua.., This was one of the first test units formed.

The training book was being written at that time. This type of training was being conducted very hush-hush and did not follow any of the 'OLD' manuals that had previously been written. (1953-54) This 'testing' school threw away all the old manual material and started all over. In some ways this was the start of training a secret army to operate independent specialized CIA projects off the books.

Should we bring it up another notch?

Tosh,

We probably shouldn't, but what the hell! Maybe it is time!

You opened the door when you brought out Tofoya so it is too late to close it. A man who had a great deal of control of SOA in that period and a strong backer of the likes of Sandavol-Alarcon'.

While the SOA attendees were primarily Central and South Americans with fifteen to twenty percent being from the middle east/north Africa and no more than ten percent from the US, the instructors were generally U.S. veterans of Iranian and El Salvadorian staging ops on the planning side and mostly U.S. Veterans of the SE Asia operational period of Phoenix and the likes there and Columbian field operations, on the tactical side.

I believe you are familiar with the type of class association I am referring to and why it was made up of this type of U.S. Soldier. Throughout various other courses, they would be intermingled with select foreign servicemen, but the same group of roughly twenty-five American Servicemen would be present throughout the majority of the neccessary courses. These men would later be deployed seperately and generally individually only to work on a limited basis with others of the same level but with different specialties in-country, and travel seperately from them. The term "reliance on others is not an acceptable risk" is gospel in this type of operation. When the operation ran it's course, the Black Widow policy would show it's ugly head often and would be utilized to maintain security of the operation. "Jack and Jill never made it home".

The COM for Central America was hardly a training manual and could not even be considered a policy manual as it was no more than a guideline for acceptable and reliable procedures of operation. It's true publishing date I believe was 1981 April through the DD31. I have quoted from it on Lancer and showed how it was in direct conflict of what Prouty produced, although it followed the same language, but came out with the opposite meaning.

The US operational sniper school of this period was ran out of Marathon for final testing with basic and advance instruction leading to this at Bragg and Benning.

Have I went too far?

Al

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I've got a question for you guys:

During late 81 and early82 while I was helping Jimmy Hall train the San Fransisco Tactical Response Team at the old Hamn's Brewery I was approached by two men, one claiming to be a former SOA trainer and another who claimed to be a contract agent for Massad, and both claiming to be recruiters for Mitch Werbell's Cobray School. They wanted me to join up with their Field-Craft training operation.

Now I know quite a bit about Mitch's background but I always sort of concidered the Cobray school to be a playground for weekend warriors and wannabe mercs so I declined the offer. But , after closely following your postings I'm wondering if I was correct in my initial assessment or was there a lot more to the school than I was led to believe?

  Thanks in advance for your input  ;)

John: I'll go on point on this one and give you my OPINION. (in spite of the potential Flak)

You did the right thing. Warbell was on the decline and because of his background a lot of wana-bees jumped in and was trying to use these names as their shields for personal whatever.

Number one. They approached you all wrong. You watch before you jump.

Point Two: You never recruite by giving the potential target the background of where you come from.

Point Three: If you were being recruted for a secret sanctioned operation then you would not know it until you had already been exposed to one or two cut-out ops. You would then be evaluated and a series of test would be given to you by others. If all went well, then someone would perhaps talk with you. It takes time to get into a top secret sanctioned MI operation, or for that matter a secret CIA 'cut out' Ops.

I think you did the right thing. Tosh

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I've got a question for you guys:

During late 81 and early82 while I was helping Jimmy Hall train the San Fransisco Tactical Response Team at the old Hamn's Brewery I was approached by two men, one claiming to be a former SOA trainer and another who claimed to be a contract agent for Massad, and both claiming to be recruiters for Mitch Werbell's Cobray School. They wanted me to join up with their Field-Craft training operation.

Now I know quite a bit about Mitch's background but I always sort of concidered the Cobray school to be a playground for weekend warriors and wannabe mercs so I declined the offer. But , after closely following your postings I'm wondering if I was correct in my initial assessment or was there a lot more to the school than I was led to believe?

  Thanks in advance for your input  ;)

John: I'll go on point on this one and give you my OPINION. (in spite of the potential Flak)

You did the right thing. Warbell was on the decline and because of his background a lot of wana-bees jumped in and was trying to use these names as their shields for personal whatever.

Number one. They approached you all wrong. You watch before you jump.

Point Two: You never recruite by giving the potential target the background of where you come from.

Point Three: If you were being recruted for a secret sanctioned operation then you would not know it until you had already been exposed to one or two cut-out ops. You would then be evaluated and a series of test would be given to you by others. If all went well, then someone would perhaps talk with you. It takes time to get into a top secret sanctioned MI operation, or for that matter a secret CIA 'cut out' Ops.

I think you did the right thing. Tosh

Tosh,

I agree with you 100%. There were no shortages of SOF types of this period and before that drew radicals "with a cause". These were the dangerous types that were as inefective as they were problamatic. They often get confused with those on the outside as being mercs who contract, but in reality are cause driven and generally hands-off for official operational programs. That has been my opinion. And that is how I have a difficult time accepting Anti-Castro Cuban fanatical groups, even those supported by the intelligence community, as being operational in the JFK Assassination.

Al

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Tosh, I think it is time to take this a step further…

In the fall of 1981, one of several blocks of instruction on Counterinsurgency was given at SOA in Ft. Benning that focused on insertion of operational personnel into a specific region in Central America by utilizing indigenous personnel, financing these operational procedures by way of narcotics trafficking and gunrunning to counterevoloutionary elements within the region. The class was attended by some twenty-five subjects dressed in fatigues without rank or unit insignia who were all dark haired, brown eyed and tanned skinned, but spoke the English Language with no or little accent. They all carried a military bearing and were disciplined not to small talk amongst each other. Whether they had Latin descent or not, they could all pass for indigenous personnel and were all obviously US military personnel. The class was instructed by one Edwin Wilson, a ?former? CIA employee who was wanted at the time by the US for selling C4 and rockets to Lybia. With Wilson, was CIA employee Thomas Clines and another CIA employee who would later come under indictment twice in the Iran/Contra Hearings and walk on both charges. The latter not named for reasons that will not be commented on.

The students in the class would attend together other courses of specific nature to counterinsurgency including; Latin American Cultures, Spanish Linguistics Specific to the Region, Implementation of  Coercion Tactics that involved Execution by scoped rifle, explosive ordinance and contact torture and execution.

The manual issued out in the specified courses was the Clandestine Operational Manual for Central America. It referred to both true operational and  false operational cover procedures. Elements of indigenous personnel were to be utilized for access to targets and for blame of operational success and failure as a hands-on participant, when they were not. Organized crime would be utilized for financing and money laundering of such operations and could also be utilized to blame for such operations.

What does this have to do with the Kennedy Assassination of 18 years earlier, it is to put it into perspective with the evidence that is surfacing and the connections those are making to link non-American Personnel to the hands-on operation in DP.

Al

Al; I am glad to see that someone has came to the plate and pointed out a few important matters concerning "Black Operations" (if I may use an overworked phrase) The specifics you mentioned are foundations which must be understood if one is to follow the lineage of field personal and why these "Cells" of specialized operatives are trained in the manner that they are.

When I attended these "familiarization" programs or (Covert Action Training Programs, CATP) that the manual was written from, I found Cubans, Iran, Tibet, and ? V.C. in those training classes, as well as personal from Angola.

Ed P Wilson, Tom Klines, Eugene Toffaya (sp) and others, of which I am sure you know, were engaged in the art of sabotage and sniper tactical training to various small groups within these cells. Others were assigned to "Illusionary Warfare Tactics", (IWT) LHO attended one of these type classes in 1959 at Nags Head NC before going over to Japan with the ONI.

Some of these military specialized operatives with their secret MOS's of the 1979-81 era, were from Iran and Afghan and Central America, and Egypt. Two Latin Americans from Eden Pastroa's small group, before Pastroa took command as Captain Zero, were engaged in the SOA Benning sniper school as well as a few of the "Mosquito Indians" of northern Nicaragua.., This was one of the first test units formed.

The training book was being written at that time. This type of training was being conducted very hush-hush and did not follow any of the 'OLD' manuals that had previously been written. (1953-54) This 'testing' school threw away all the old manual material and started all over. In some ways this was the start of training a secret army to operate independent specialized CIA projects off the books.

Should we bring it up another notch?

Tosh,

We probably shouldn't, but what the hell! Maybe it is time!

You opened the door when you brought out Tofoya so it is too late to close it. A man who had a great deal of control of SOA in that period and a strong backer of the likes of Sandavol-Alarcon'.

While the SOA attendees were primarily Central and South Americans with fifteen to twenty percent being from the middle east/north Africa and no more than ten percent from the US, the instructors were generally U.S. veterans of Iranian and El Salvadorian staging ops on the planning side and mostly U.S. Veterans of the SE Asia operational period of Phoenix and the likes there and Columbian field operations, on the tactical side.

I believe you are familiar with the type of class association I am referring to and why it was made up of this type of U.S. Soldier. Throughout various other courses, they would be intermingled with select foreign servicemen, but the same group of roughly twenty-five American Servicemen would be present throughout the majority of the neccessary courses. These men would later be deployed seperately and generally individually only to work on a limited basis with others of the same level but with different specialties in-country, and travel seperately from them. The term "reliance on others is not an acceptable risk" is gospel in this type of operation. When the operation ran it's course, the Black Widow policy would show it's ugly head often and would be utilized to maintain security of the operation. "Jack and Jill never made it home".

The COM for Central America was hardly a training manual and could not even be considered a policy manual as it was no more than a guideline for acceptable and reliable procedures of operation. It's true publishing date I believe was 1981 April through the DD31. I have quoted from it on Lancer and showed how it was in direct conflict of what Prouty produced, although it followed the same language, but came out with the opposite meaning.

The US operational sniper school of this period was ran out of Marathon for final testing with basic and advance instruction leading to this at Bragg and Benning.

Have I went too far?

Al

Al: Your in the ball park and batting 400. Jack and Jill went up the hill.. they each had a dollar and a quarter... Jill came down with two and a half... And They Shot Her. It was aslow day in the jungles. ;)

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Tosh, I think it is time to take this a step further…

In the fall of 1981, one of several blocks of instruction on Counterinsurgency was given at SOA in Ft. Benning that focused on insertion of operational personnel into a specific region in Central America by utilizing indigenous personnel, financing these operational procedures by way of narcotics trafficking and gunrunning to counterevoloutionary elements within the region. The class was attended by some twenty-five subjects dressed in fatigues without rank or unit insignia who were all dark haired, brown eyed and tanned skinned, but spoke the English Language with no or little accent. They all carried a military bearing and were disciplined not to small talk amongst each other. Whether they had Latin descent or not, they could all pass for indigenous personnel and were all obviously US military personnel. The class was instructed by one Edwin Wilson, a ?former? CIA employee who was wanted at the time by the US for selling C4 and rockets to Lybia. With Wilson, was CIA employee Thomas Clines and another CIA employee who would later come under indictment twice in the Iran/Contra Hearings and walk on both charges. The latter not named for reasons that will not be commented on.

The students in the class would attend together other courses of specific nature to counterinsurgency including; Latin American Cultures, Spanish Linguistics Specific to the Region, Implementation of  Coercion Tactics that involved Execution by scoped rifle, explosive ordinance and contact torture and execution.

The manual issued out in the specified courses was the Clandestine Operational Manual for Central America. It referred to both true operational and  false operational cover procedures. Elements of indigenous personnel were to be utilized for access to targets and for blame of operational success and failure as a hands-on participant, when they were not. Organized crime would be utilized for financing and money laundering of such operations and could also be utilized to blame for such operations.

What does this have to do with the Kennedy Assassination of 18 years earlier, it is to put it into perspective with the evidence that is surfacing and the connections those are making to link non-American Personnel to the hands-on operation in DP.

Al

Al; I am glad to see that someone has came to the plate and pointed out a few important matters concerning "Black Operations" (if I may use an overworked phrase) The specifics you mentioned are foundations which must be understood if one is to follow the lineage of field personal and why these "Cells" of specialized operatives are trained in the manner that they are.

When I attended these "familiarization" programs or (Covert Action Training Programs, CATP) that the manual was written from, I found Cubans, Iran, Tibet, and ? V.C. in those training classes, as well as personal from Angola.

Ed P Wilson, Tom Klines, Eugene Toffaya (sp) and others, of which I am sure you know, were engaged in the art of sabotage and sniper tactical training to various small groups within these cells. Others were assigned to "Illusionary Warfare Tactics", (IWT) LHO attended one of these type classes in 1959 at Nags Head NC before going over to Japan with the ONI.

Some of these military specialized operatives with their secret MOS's of the 1979-81 era, were from Iran and Afghan and Central America, and Egypt. Two Latin Americans from Eden Pastroa's small group, before Pastroa took command as Captain Zero, were engaged in the SOA Benning sniper school as well as a few of the "Mosquito Indians" of northern Nicaragua.., This was one of the first test units formed.

The training book was being written at that time. This type of training was being conducted very hush-hush and did not follow any of the 'OLD' manuals that had previously been written. (1953-54) This 'testing' school threw away all the old manual material and started all over. In some ways this was the start of training a secret army to operate independent specialized CIA projects off the books.

Should we bring it up another notch?

Tosh,

We probably shouldn't, but what the hell! Maybe it is time!

You opened the door when you brought out Tofoya so it is too late to close it. A man who had a great deal of control of SOA in that period and a strong backer of the likes of Sandavol-Alarcon'.

While the SOA attendees were primarily Central and South Americans with fifteen to twenty percent being from the middle east/north Africa and no more than ten percent from the US, the instructors were generally U.S. veterans of Iranian and El Salvadorian staging ops on the planning side and mostly U.S. Veterans of the SE Asia operational period of Phoenix and the likes there and Columbian field operations, on the tactical side.

I believe you are familiar with the type of class association I am referring to and why it was made up of this type of U.S. Soldier. Throughout various other courses, they would be intermingled with select foreign servicemen, but the same group of roughly twenty-five American Servicemen would be present throughout the majority of the neccessary courses. These men would later be deployed seperately and generally individually only to work on a limited basis with others of the same level but with different specialties in-country, and travel seperately from them. The term "reliance on others is not an acceptable risk" is gospel in this type of operation. When the operation ran it's course, the Black Widow policy would show it's ugly head often and would be utilized to maintain security of the operation. "Jack and Jill never made it home".

The COM for Central America was hardly a training manual and could not even be considered a policy manual as it was no more than a guideline for acceptable and reliable procedures of operation. It's true publishing date I believe was 1981 April through the DD31. I have quoted from it on Lancer and showed how it was in direct conflict of what Prouty produced, although it followed the same language, but came out with the opposite meaning.

The US operational sniper school of this period was ran out of Marathon for final testing with basic and advance instruction leading to this at Bragg and Benning.

Have I went too far?

Al

Al: Your in the ball park and batting 400. Jack and Jill went up the hill.. they each had a dollar and a quarter... Jill came down with two and a half... And They Shot Her. It was aslow day in the jungles. ;)

Tosh, I am batting 1000. Due to a rain delay, it became home field advantage and Jack and Jill's guardian ANGEL eliminated them both before taking it on the road. They met their demise by distant detonation of their own charges.

Al

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I've got a question for you guys:

During late 81 and early82 while I was helping Jimmy Hall train the San Fransisco Tactical Response Team at the old Hamn's Brewery I was approached by two men, one claiming to be a former SOA trainer and another who claimed to be a contract agent for Massad, and both claiming to be recruiters for Mitch Werbell's Cobray School. They wanted me to join up with their Field-Craft training operation.

Now I know quite a bit about Mitch's background but I always sort of concidered the Cobray school to be a playground for weekend warriors and wannabe mercs so I declined the offer. But , after closely following your postings I'm wondering if I was correct in my initial assessment or was there a lot more to the school than I was led to believe?

  Thanks in advance for your input  ;)

John: I'll go on point on this one and give you my OPINION. (in spite of the potential Flak)

You did the right thing. Warbell was on the decline and because of his background a lot of wana-bees jumped in and was trying to use these names as their shields for personal whatever.

Number one. They approached you all wrong. You watch before you jump.

Point Two: You never recruite by giving the potential target the background of where you come from.

Point Three: If you were being recruted for a secret sanctioned operation then you would not know it until you had already been exposed to one or two cut-out ops. You would then be evaluated and a series of test would be given to you by others. If all went well, then someone would perhaps talk with you. It takes time to get into a top secret sanctioned MI operation, or for that matter a secret CIA 'cut out' Ops.

I think you did the right thing. Tosh

Tosh,

I agree with you 100%. There were no shortages of SOF types of this period and before that drew radicals "with a cause". These were the dangerous types that were as inefective as they were problamatic. They often get confused with those on the outside as being mercs who contract, but in reality are cause driven and generally hands-off for official operational programs. That has been my opinion. And that is how I have a difficult time accepting Anti-Castro Cuban fanatical groups, even those supported by the intelligence community, as being operational in the JFK Assassination.

Al

Al: I agree fully. Its hard to seperate the Cubans from the Kennedy matter because it seems so simple. The Cubans were pissed so they assassinated the President.., all two hundred and ten of them. Most were there that day to watch it happen. I too, do not by this.

The Cubans were operating a gun running operation through Dallas and other cities that were not government approved, CIA or otherwise. This had been going on for over three years and the FBI had most of the names and M.O. on file with Hoover.

These independent operations often cried CIA when their tit got caught in the Wringer. In fact, after the assassination their little operations were compromised and they all drifted back to Miami and made applications for work with the CIA. Most were REJECTED on the spot. (for reasons as you have pointed out)

In later years, they were the first to tell and sell their little embellished stories to the first magazine and book writers that came along. In time they became the references we quote today and that validates them and their distorsions of facts. That has been what the CIA has designed and wanted all these years..., a damn good diversion. The politics and policies behind the assassination remain protected to this day. Jack and Jill never came home from that OPS..

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Tosh,

Although we compliment each others content on these posts, I get the feeling you are still proceeding cautiously with me to determine just who I was and my credibility. You surely are now aware of me by now. A simple yes or no will suffice.

Al

I have to pull out my fingernails to say YES and I have to pull out my toenails to say NO. As you know we have unwritten rules and a code of conduct. ;)

As I said to the little lady on the bar stool, next to me. "Hell, I can't Fart and chew gum at the same time anymore".

"What did you do in the Big WAR Uncle? Come here little girl.., sit on my lap and I'll tell ya.

Its time for bed. ;)

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Tosh,

Although we compliment each others content on these posts, I get the feeling you are still proceeding cautiously with me to determine just who I was and my credibility. You surely are now aware of me by now. A simple yes or no will suffice.

Al

I have to pull out my fingernails to say YES and I have to pull out my toenails to say NO. As you know we have unwritten rules and a code of conduct. ;)

As I said to the little lady on the bar stool, next to me. "Hell, I can't Fart and chew gum at the same time anymore".

"What did you do in the Big WAR Uncle? Come here little girl.., sit on my lap and I'll tell ya.

Its time for bed. ;)

Tosh, Well said. I didn't mean for you to be forthcomming here. And I appreciate it that you were not. Sleep does not come easy when reliving this, I simply asked for a yes or no. But it is not always that black and white when dealing with such a history.

Al

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Al

"What does this have to do with the Kennedy Assassination of 18 years earlier, it is to put it into perspective with the evidence that is surfacing and the connections those are making to link non-American Personnel to the hands-on operation in DP."

You wonder about what happened 18 years after the assassination and I am intrigued by things that happened years before.

One of the successful counter-intelligence operations of WWII was to lead the Germans to believe that an invasion of Norway was imminent. The Germans were producing "heavy water" at a Norwegian hydro electric plant that was needed to process uranium for their atomic bomb. By the end of the War some 300,000 German troops were in Norway, equal to some 20 German Divisions unavailable for the Eastern or Western Fronts.

Two of the groups that planners invisioned for an operation into Norway were the 99th Battalion (seperate) and the First Special Services Force. The 99th was made up of Norwegian speaking Americans (William Colby being one of these men) and Norwegian nationals while the FSSF was a joint Canadian American Force. They were both trained to engage in covert operations and, what made them different than most units, they were of mixed nationalities that were united to attain a single goal. Needless to say the experiment worked and became the model for the type of covert training that you speak of above.

Why I like looking back at this is because Major General Edwin Walker, the other guy the Warren Commission says Lee Harvey Oswald attempted to assassinate, led both these outfits by the end of the war and continued training or supporting similar groups throughout his career.

Just a coincidence?

Jim Root

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