John Newman on Lisa Pease's challenges to his research

[Gene Kelly]

I belive that Veciana was duplicitous, and I wouldn't put much stock in what he states.  That said, its not too difficult to connect the dots between Lobo, United Fruit, Dulles and Phillips. One of the largest companies with sugar holdings in Cuba during 1957-1959 was the United Fruit Company ... important at the time to Secretary of State John Foster Dulles and his brother, Allen Dulles ... both on the United Fruit payroll for nearly four decades (that's a long time). Cromwell and Sullivan had seats on the board of directors of United Fruit. And in 1958, Julio Lobo,  the “Cuban Sugar King”, employed Veciana as comptroller in his finance company, Banco Financiero.  It's difficult to ignore those associations.  In August 1973, Veciana was indicted for cocaine possession, convicted of drug trafficking in July 1974, and served 27 months. The CIA helped put him away.  I'd be interested in why he was railroaded in this fashion ... someone was clearing the playing field, and sending a message. The purported attempts on Veciana's life seem overly dramatic and perhaps staged.  Upon his release in February 1976, he starting conveniently  "singing" to Fonzi and Schweiker's Committee.  His story about meeting "Bishop" with Oswald has always seemed too pat, and good to be true (imho). 

Then there are the HSCA revelations about one Colonel Samuel G. Kail ... purportedly an Army military attaché in Havana. Kail  was a West Point graduate, and military intelligence, but assumed to be a "functionary" of the CIA (whatever that is). Lieutenant Kail was awarded a Silver Star for his exploits in Korea.  He told the HSCA "I assume that CIA pays our bills" but he also received a CIA legion of Merit Award.  That is why I belive the distinction between CIA and military is not clear and a moot point.    

According to Bill Kelly, colonels are the highest ranking officers on the battlefield – what the snipers call a High Priority Target – guys who take their insignia off before going out in the open. They are the - Go To guys the Generals personally give instructions and orders and they’re the ones responsible for seeing those orders are carried out. On the chess board, the Colonels are Bishops, Rooks and Knights and capable of maneuvering and striking from different directions and distances.  I belive that Kail was also referred to as Col. William Bishop.  

 

 

 

   

[Ron Bulman]

22 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Anyone who was at the Wecht Conference in Pittsburgh will understand that Parnell is misrepresenting Phillips attitude and actions before the HSCA.

Hardway said that not only  did Phillips lie before the HSCA, he admitted he lied.

This was especially true in regards to the delay in the Kostikov cable being sent up to Langley.  He also lied about the cameras being out and somehow this was the reason for there being no picture of Oswald. Third, he also lied about the Oswald tapes being gone and recycled.

When Phillips admitted he lied, Danny and Eddy and Mike Goldsmith put together a bill of indictment for perjury.  They felt they had an air tight case.  But the HSCA would not sign off on it.

(BTW, Danny said they also wrote one up for Goodpasture.  It was not quite as strong as the one for Phillips.)

Danny explained this inaction by saying it was intimidation due to the aftershock of the Sprague episode.  

Speaking of which, the whole idea Parnell is trying to sell here that somehow the Bishop alias is reliant on Veciana is also baloney.

As Jim Hougan showed, Edwin Wilson knew that Phillips used that alias, and Cliff Fenton, who was chief investigator under Tanenbaum, had sources inside the CIA who also confirmed that this was the case.

 

Jim.  I'm confused again.  I should really re read the entire section in depth but I skimmed this part of The Last Investigation the other night for the first time in years. 

He talks about the April 1978 HSCA interview of Phillips where he denies being introduced to Veciana previously at the Reston conference.  Because he, Veciana and a member of Sprague's office (?) witnessed such he wanted Phillips indicted for perjury then.

So if Hardway and Lopez wanted him indicted over the August 1978 questioning about Oswald/Kostikov/Mexico City does this mean members of the HSCA wanted Philipps indicted for lying  to them Twice, for two different times?  Or do I misunderstand everything?

[James DiEugenio]

No.

There is what Fonzi wanted him indicted for and there is what Danny, Eddy and Mike Goldsmith wanted him indicted for.

If one reads the Lopez Report, its pretty clear that Phillips lied about at least two or three matters concerning Mexico City, and I mentioned them above.

This is what the Hardway/Lopez/Goldsmith bill of indictment was about. 

[Robin Finn]

former CIA officer Glenn Carle:
"During the 1960s, Maurice Bishop was the alias used by an infamous CIA officer in Mexico City, whom conspiracy theorists believe met Lee Harvey Oswald shortly before President John F. Kennedy was murdered in 1963. The alleged meeting is cited as clear evidence that CIA officers were somehow involved in Kennedy’s assassination.
I knew Maurice Bishop, whose real name was David Atlee Phillips. A long time ago, he got me into the agency."
http://glenncarle.com/tag/central-intelligence-agency/

 

from the 2013 edition of Anthony Summers' book Not in Your Lifetime:
"In conversation with Phillips, he recalled in 2013, he asked him about the allegation that he had been “Bishop.” The response he received is startling, given Phillips’s history of flat-out denial." “He did not say, ‘Yes, I am Maurice Bishop,’ Carle remembered, “It was clear to me, however, that he was the man who had used the Bishop alias… . Phillips’ reaction was to acknowledge that he was the man in question… . He tacitly accepted its accuracy; but he did not explicitly confirm to me that he had done what he was accused of doing: meeting with Oswald. He avoided discussing this point.”
"The quote used here is from a February 5, 2013, letter from Carle to the author’s principal colleague Robbyn Swan, who had noted that—in a book review—Carle had written: “I knew “Maurice Bishop,” whose real name was David Atlee Phillips.” In his letter to Swan, Carle also wrote: “Another case officer colleague—a contemporary of Phillips, now long dead—in fact the man who introduced Phillips to his second wife, also spoke to me in a way that indicated that Phillips had been “Bishop.”  

 

 

[Robin Finn]

[Steve Thomas]

10 hours ago, Gene Kelly said:

Then there are the HSCA revelations about one Colonel Samuel G. Kail ... purportedly an Army military attaché in Havana. Kail  was a West Point graduate, and military intelligence, but assumed to be a "functionary" of the CIA (whatever that is). Lieutenant Kail was awarded a Silver Star for his exploits in Korea.  He told the HSCA "I assume that CIA pays our bills" but he also received a CIA legion of Merit Award.  That is why I belive the distinction between CIA and military is not clear and a moot point.     

Gene,

Colonels? Did somebody say something about Colonels?

Cryptonym: JMFIG

JMFIG is defined as the "Opa-locka Naval Base. Opa-locka CAC (note: Caribbean Admissions Center)

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/cryptdb.php?id=JMFIG

198-10004-10157 MOVEMENT OF THE CARIBBEAN ADMISSION CENTER (CAC) 1

Background on the use of the Opa-locka facility. "The Caribbean Admission Center was established in March 1962 as a joint DOD/CIA operation under CIA operational control and Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) cover..." See https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=19773#relPageId=10&tab=page

- it shows that "CIA's Domestic Contact Division (DCD) had primary responsibility for obtaining positive intelligence interest from refugees." DCD officers conducted interviews with refugees at the CAC.

124-90019-10155: No Title

Deputy Chief of the CAC is Colonel Sam Kail.

Remember too, Colonel Frank Brandstetter. He also was in Havana during that same time period. More blurring of the CIA and DOD.

Both lived in Dallas, BTW.

Colonel Frank Maryan "Brandy" Brandstetter (U.S. Army Ret.) died in the Hospital Megallanes in Acapulco, Mexico on August 21, 2011 at age 99. - See more at: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/nytimes/obituary.aspx?pid=153634344#sthash.woUiR4U2.dpuf

"Brandy continued for 40 years in uniform as a U.S. Army Reservist frequently providing assistance to the Office of the Army Chief of Staff for Intelligence, the Defense Intelligence Agency, the FBI, and the CIA."

 

Steve Thomas

Edited January 3, 2020 by Steve Thomas

[W. Tracy Parnell]

10 hours ago, Gene Kelly said:

In August 1973, Veciana was indicted for cocaine possession, convicted of drug trafficking in July 1974, and served 27 months. The CIA helped put him away. 

I have looked into Veciana's claim that he was "railroaded" and see no evidence for that by the CIA or anyone else. His two co-defendants turned state's evidence against him (they were not the only witnesses or evidence against him though) and I guess you can say that they were paid off by the CIA (or whoever) to do it but can you prove it? Actually, I guess Newman thinks that it would be the Army brass that "framed" him (?).  Veciana also told Fonzi that when he was released he just needed some time and he would prove his claims. That never happened. It seems to me at this point that most people would understand that it is dangerous to believe anything that Veciana says when there is no other evidence for it. Perhaps you can point me to something I don't know about and in that case I would be grateful. Here is an article I did that describes the situation (scroll down a couple of paragraphs).

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2019/05/vecianas-game.html

 

[Paul Brancato]

according to Brandstetter, Colonel Rose at ACSI suggested that Brandy contact Colonel Kail in Dallas. This was also when Colonel Rose assigned Brandy to the 488th Military Intelligence Detachment. Memory says this happened in 1959. I should mention that Dorothe Matlack was the Eastern European emigre expert at ACSI. Perhaps that’s how she and Kail were the ones who met with DeMohrenschildt in the spring of 1963 after he left Dallas for Haiti. Dorothe was serving as CIA/Pentagon liaison, as was Kail. So as Gene says, the line is mostly imaginary. Lansdale is another example of this Pentagon/CIA link. 

[W. Tracy Parnell]

9 hours ago, Robin Finn said:

“He did not say, ‘Yes, I am Maurice Bishop,’ Carle remembered,

No, he didn't and its clear to me that Carle misconstrued something Phillips said to him. After all, Phillips was a very careful individual and what would he have to gain by such an "admission" to Carle? Nothing but headaches. Amazing that Carle never said a word until years later also. There is not one person that knew of or said anything about a "Maurice Bishop" or "Jim or John Bishop," which is what Veciana also told the investigators Bishop's name could have been, before 1976. Only after Veciana's allegations did these people "remember" anything. and that was after it became a "fact" in popular culture.

[Steve Thomas]

6 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Gene,

Colonels? Did somebody say something about Colonels?

Colonel B.B. Smith

Daily Palmer Rustler October 14, 1954 page 2

(Member of the faculty 4150^th Army Reserve Support Unit, U.S.Army Reserve Training School, Dallas)

B.B. (Boise) Smith. Director, Civil Defense and Disaster Commission. Dallas Police Department, Deputy Chief of Police.

 

Colonel Charles Lumpkin, Deputy Chief of Police, Dallas Police Department. Commandant of the 4150^th Army Reserve Support Unit, U.S.Army Reserve Training School, Dallas. Took command of the TSBD crime scene. Provided the first transcript of the 11/22/63 police dispatch tapes to the Secret Service. Worked with Jack Crichton to obtain an interpreter for Marina Oswald.

 

Colonel Jack Crichton.

From John Simkin in the Education Forum 1/7/2009

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/6568-jack-alston-crichton/?page=2

“Crichton was appointed head of the intelligence component of the Dallas Civil Defense….

In 1961 Crichton joined forces with other right-wing figures in Dallas to establish a program called "Know Your Enemy". This was to combat communist influence that "was undermining the American way of life". The following year Crichton opened an underground command post under the patio of the Dallas Health and Science Museum that was intended for "continuity-of-government" operations during a communist attack.” Had its own proprietary communications system.

From John Simkin in the Education Forum 1/7/2009

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/6568-jack-alston-crichton/?page=2

“Jack Crichton also had a close association with George H. W. Bush. According to Fabian Escalante (The Secret War: CIA Covert Operations Against Cuba, 1959-62), in 1959, Crichton and Bush raised funds for the CIA's Operation 40. Originally it was set up to organize sabotage operations against Fidel Castro and his Cuban government. However, it evolved into a team of assassins.”

 

Colonel D.H. Byrd, owner of the TSBD.

 

John Simkin in the Education Forum December 3, 2006, (http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_i...e/rambler3.html)

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/8715-david-harold-byrd/

“Still more LTV intrigues were revealed by Peter Dale Scott: "A fellow-director of [Jack Alston] Crichton's firm of Dorchester Gas Producing was D.H. Byrd, an oil associate of Sid Richardson and Clint Murchison, and the LTV director who teamed up with James Ling to buy 132,000 shares of LTV in November 1963.”

 

Steve Thomas

[David Josephs]

11 hours ago, Gene Kelly said:

Then there are the HSCA revelations about one Colonel Samuel G. Kail ... purportedly an Army military attaché in Havana. Kail  was a West Point graduate, and military intelligence, but assumed to be a "functionary" of the CIA (whatever that is). Lieutenant Kail was awarded a Silver Star for his exploits in Korea.  He told the HSCA "I assume that CIA pays our bills" but he also received a CIA legion of Merit Award.  That is why I belive the distinction between CIA and military is not clear and a moot point

A while back I did a hand drawn connections chart including KAIL...  based on the work here at the Forum - especially Steve Thomas'...

Maybe it helps see the bigger picture...  DJ

[W. Tracy Parnell]

23 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Very nice presentation Mike.

I'll be attacked for this, but I woke up in a mood so here goes. It's amazing to me how the conspirators worked so hard to push the fact that Castro was behind the assassination. This was ostensibly done to get the US to invade Cuba and remove Castro. But the WC, even with the evil Dulles sitting as a member, never said that Castro had anything to do with it. Yes, maybe Oswald was a Castro agent in his own mind but not overtly. He did it alone. So the conspiracy was only 50 percent effective. They killed JFK but Castro sat there for years and years.  But you think that the evil conspirators, who were smart enough to hatch this plot that had to involve hundreds if not thousands, would have foreseen that this could happen. Did they not think that the feds could take control of the investigation? I guess you guys will say 50 percent is better than nothing.

Also, this presentation doesn't say one word about the Pentagon. It's all about the CIA. And the subject of this thread is Newman, so this just points to the severe fracture that exists in the community and the coming battle if Newman sticks to his guns. I think that while Newman has been blustering about how everyone needs to change their attitude and adopt a "new paradigm," that he will change his tune when he realizes his sales could dry up (he must make $20 a book easy since the thing costs $32 and is printed on demand). He will then say that key CIA assets were working with the Army. I just want to see his "proof" that Veciana was released early by the conspirators. Amazing how they still had people in place 13 years after the fact that could do this. I guess it is the same way the media still has CIA assets that work to this day to promote the coverup.

OK begin the attacks.

Edited January 3, 2020 by W. Tracy Parnell

[Michaleen Kilroy]

13 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Great stuff yourself Mr. Kilroy.  Lots of information there in one place but still concise.  

Curious, when you gave the presentation did you elaborate further, and, how did they react?  With questions? 

I added a bit more context here and there but mostly focused on the PR tactics that were used since that was my audience and topic.

I got a few questions mostly for confirmation, such as "Butler did a media drop?" referring to the WDSU-TV film, and "The DRE release came out before the assassination?" Also, someone asked how COINTELPRO hurt citizen's movements.  I said they would often try to associate them with communism.

My impressions were a) the younger crowd was not emotionally tied to the assassination like older generations and b) they expressed no real shock in seeing government disinformation/malfeasance at work.

I avoided asking what anyone thought  of the case at the end and wanted to leave it up to them.

Of course I have my thoughts but kept them to myself.  But I'll share them here (naturally).

If you look at the facts of the public influence campaign immediately following the assassination and how it was put together, there are only one of 3 conclusions you can make:

1) It all happened organically. LHO found the DRE publicity director, provoked him, the DRE and Butler responded, the media covered it, Butler held onto the film and the debate tape, etc., etc. And the CIA lied about it all for decades just because. (Fat chance, IMHO.)

2) The CIA ran a COINTEL campaign against the FPCC in NO using LHO, and then LHO shot JFK or someone hijacked him as a participant but the CIA knew nothing.  Hence the cover-up.  (My argument against this idea is if the FPCC was non-existent in NO, then why go to the trouble of damaging the reputation of a chapter that doesn't exist?)

3) By the times Helms hired Joannides, the conspiracy was well underway. 

So it's either happenstance, Oswald fooled the CIA, or the CIA fooled Oswald.  My bet's on the latter.

 

 

[Michaleen Kilroy]

47 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

I'll be attacked for this, but I woke up in a mood so here goes. It's amazing to me how the conspirators worked so hard to push the fact that Castro was behind the assassination. This was ostensibly done to get the US to invade Cuba and remove Castro. But the WC, even with the evil Dulles sitting as a member, never said that Castro had anything to do with it. Yes, maybe Oswald was a Castro agent in his own mind but not overtly. He did it alone. So the conspiracy was only 50 percent effective. They killed JFK but Castro sat there for years and years.  But you think that the evil conspirators, who were smart enough to hatch this plot that had to involve hundreds if not thousands, would have foreseen that this could happen. Did they not think that the feds could take control of the investigation? I guess you guys will say 50 percent is better than nothing.

Also, this presentation doesn't say one word about the Pentagon. It's all about the CIA. And the subject of this thread is Newman, so this just points to the severe fracture that exists in the community and the coming battle if Newman sticks to his guns. I think that while Newman has been blustering about how everyone needs to change their attitude and adopt a "new paradigm," that he will change his tune when he realizes his sales could dry up (he must make $20 a book easy since the thing costs $32 and is printed on demand). He will then say that key CIA assets were working with the Army. I just want to see his "proof" that Veciana was released early by the conspirators. Amazing how they still had people in place 13 years after the fact that could do this. I guess it is the same way the media still has CIA assets that work to this day to promote the coverup.

OK begin the attacks.

No attack but a clarification:  the preso wasn't meant to be a comprehensive theory of who killed JFK.  It was a brief overview of the PR and propaganda tactics that have been used over the years to influence public opinion about the case.

[Michael Clark]

A side note regarding Glenn Carle. He responded to an email that I sent him, as follows...

 

———————

 

Greetings, My name is Michael Clark. I have had too much time on my hands of late and have been sucked into "research" of the JFK assassination. I recently watched "Two Men in Dallas", a 1976 video featuring Mark Lane and Dallas Police Officer Roger Craig. The narrator indicates that the interviewer is a "Lincoln Carle". Your name came up while reading some other unrelated articles and I was wondering if, by chance, you might be Glenn Lincoln Carle, and, by chance, the interviewer of officer Craig.

I hope my message finds you doing well .....

Regards,

Michael

 

—————-

 

 

Interesting.  Glenn Lincoln Carle is my name, but I am not the "Lincoln Carle" in the interview.  I have never heard of anyone else with two thirds of my name.  No relation.

Sorry.
 

Yours,
 

Glenn Carle