Buell Frazier's Book Set For 2020 Release

[Rob Clark]

2 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Rob I've thought for years it was the other way around.  He didn't surround himself with the buffers.  They surrounded him, on behalf of their employers, to make sure he towed the mark and walked the line.

Oh no...I've always wondered why he has been resistant to talking to researchers. Even back when Lane was doing his thing, Frazier wouldn't talk to him. If you read the notes from the HSCA investigators, they had quite a time pinning him down and getting him to talk to them. Ducking and dodging them, many times of him not showing up when he was supposed to, postponements, lawyers getting involved... He's been looked at for years as this hapless guy that happened to be in the wrong place, with the wrong person, at the time. He is the only living witness who REALLY knows for sure whether Oswald brought a rifle in a package to work. As a rifle owner and hunter, and being around guns in Texas your whole life,  you know darn well what a rifle in a hard shell case, soft shell case, leather case, canvas case, or wrapped in a freaking brown paper looks like. Oswald didnt have curtain rods, didnt need them, denied the story, and none were found. No 2 foot, thin dime store bag was found in the TSBD. That means one of two things...either Oswald had a rifle in a heavier type brown paper bag and Frazier knew it, lied about it because he didnt want to get pulled into all this, or Oswald didnt have a package or gun at all...PERIOD. It's as simple as that. EITHER WAY, HE'S BEEN LYING FOR 56 YEARS. We are running out of time for the truth!

[Andrej Stancak]

4 hours ago, Rob Clark said:

Oh no...I've always wondered why he has been resistant to talking to researchers. Even back when Lane was doing his thing, Frazier wouldn't talk to him. If you read the notes from the HSCA investigators, they had quite a time pinning him down and getting him to talk to them. Ducking and dodging them, many times of him not showing up when he was supposed to, postponements, lawyers getting involved... He's been looked at for years as this hapless guy that happened to be in the wrong place, with the wrong person, at the time. He is the only living witness who REALLY knows for sure whether Oswald brought a rifle in a package to work. As a rifle owner and hunter, and being around guns in Texas your whole life,  you know darn well what a rifle in a hard shell case, soft shell case, leather case, canvas case, or wrapped in a freaking brown paper looks like. Oswald didnt have curtain rods, didnt need them, denied the story, and none were found. No 2 foot, thin dime store bag was found in the TSBD. That means one of two things...either Oswald had a rifle in a heavier type brown paper bag and Frazier knew it, lied about it because he didnt want to get pulled into all this, or Oswald didnt have a package or gun at all...PERIOD. It's as simple as that. EITHER WAY, HE'S BEEN LYING FOR 56 YEARS. We are running out of time for the truth!

Rob:

your post hammered it well. The rifle has been always a major issue and the reason for Buell Wesley Frazier's misty descriptions. If there would be no rifle in the Depository which could be linked to Lee Oswald, there would be no way of pinning the killing of the President on Oswald.  Lee Oswald had to come to contact with that rifle in some way and even bring it to the building. Had Buell Wesley Frazier not witnessed Lee Oswald bringing the rifle, Mr Frazier would not even need to mention the long package he and his sister allegedly had seen. The fact that Mr Frazier did mention the package means that he was privy to a critical piece of information regarding how the rifle was brought to the building. 

One possibility, which I have developed in one other thread ("Curtain rods story revisited"), would be that the two lads brought the rifle at some point earlier on a different day. This is what Lee Oswald's statements from his final interrogation suggest. According to the postal inspector Holmes, Lee Oswald told the interrogators that the package that contained his lunch was big (oversized) and that Frazier's description of bringing a long package may have referred to a different occasion. Lee said that the bag contained lunch and was oversized for the volume of his lunch it contained.  Mr Frazier also mentioned to Pat Speer and maybe to other people that Lee could have brought his rifle in pieces before November 22. Thus, Mr Frazier knew that Lee had brought a rifle and that that rifle could have been used in the assassination - we do not know what information the two young lads discussed regarding the rifle.

I do not know and may never know why did Mr Frazier and his sister Linnie, if Lee and Mr Frazier brought the rifle on some previous day, would flag up the long package right then on Friday afternoon or evening. It may be that Mr Frazier reasoned that the rifle would be traced to Paine's garage and if he did not come forward soon, he would be considered to be an accomplice to the crime later. So, he came up with a curtain rod story. Why curtain rods? He worked in the department store before arriving to Irving and given he was a very young and inexperienced man, he could only hang on to something he saw in the department store. I was able to estimate what would be the realistic length of the package - it would be 21 inches. If it contained curtain rods, there would be three thin, hollow telescoping rods for his three windows, each window being 31-32'' wide. It would be a very light package, not a bulky or heavy one. I could not find any statement by Mr Frazier as to how thin or thick or bulky or heavy the package was. Importantly, Linnie Mae Randle described the package as long, having a bulky end and almost touching the ground when Lee walked with it. However, such a long package could not be stuck into armpit and held in the cupped hand. Mrs Randle could afford to say the package would be the kind containing a rifle because she hardly could be considered for anything else than a witness. Buell Wesley Frazier had to distance himself from a long and bulky package so that nobody could say he had to see Lee's rifle because Mr Frazier would be an accomplice, not a witness. Merging the two different descriptions of the package, we got a sort of a fuzzy idea how the package looked like - it was both long and not too long, it was both light-weight and bulky or heavy. 

Lee Oswald and Mr Frazier may have been describing the same package: Lee - it contained my lunch and was too big for the content it carried. Buell Wesley Frazier: it was a paper bag which was possible to carry in the cupped hand and having it stuck in the armpit  which means that this was a 21' package and thin enough since it only contained three curtain rods and I know how curtain rods look like - they are quite thin (1/2') and light-weight.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Andrej Stancak

[Rob Clark]

4 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

The rifle has been always a major issue and the reason for Buell Wesley Frazier's misty descriptions. If there would be no rifle in the Depository which could be linked to Lee Oswald, there would be no way of pinning the killing of the President on Oswald.  Lee Oswald had to come to contact with that rifle in some way and even bring it to the building. Had Buell Wesley Frazier not witnessed Lee Oswald bringing the rifle, Mr Frazier would not even need to mention the long package he and his sister allegedly had seen. The fact that Mr Frazier did mention the package means that he was privy to a critical piece of information regarding how the rifle was brought to the building. 

One possibility, which I have developed in one other thread ("Curtain rods story revisited"), would be that the two lads brought the rifle at some point earlier on a different day. This is what Lee Oswald's statements from his final interrogation suggest. According to the postal inspector Holmes, Lee Oswald told the interrogators that the package that contained his lunch was big (oversized) and that Frazier's description of bringing a long package may have referred to a different occasion. Lee said that the bag contained lunch and was oversized for the volume of his lunch it contained.  Mr Frazier also mentioned to Pat Speer and maybe to other people that Lee could have brought his rifle in pieces before November 22. Thus, Mr Frazier knew that Lee had brought a rifle and that that rifle could have been used in the assassination - we do not know what information the two young lads discussed regarding the rifle.

Oswald could have been told to plant that rifle in the bulding...remember, it was purchased by AJ Hidell, a Castro sympathizer and supporter. Oswald may not have thought the rifle could ever be traced back to him. Maybe he was told of a plot to just shoot at and scare Kennedy into taking action against Castro, the rifle would be found and tied back to the mysterious Hidell. Oswald could have told Frazier a myriad of reasons to bring the gun to work. Rifles had been brought into the TSBD the day before and shown to Roy Truly. Maybe he told Frazier he was going to drop it off after work to get worked on? Maybe he told Frazier someone was going to buy it...it doesn't have to be ominous, he could have told Frazier anything. This whole rifle in pieces thing is ridiculous...the stock was only 4" or 5" shorter than it would be fully assembled. The juice wouldn't  be worth the squeeze...

[Andrej Stancak]

Rob:

I agree that Lee Oswald was deceived when someone asked him to bring his rifle to the building, possibly before the 22nd November.  It could be that Lee brought the rifle to trade it as it has been argued by Gerry Patrick Hemming in the book "The Oswald Code" by A.J. Weberman. Hemming allegedly offered Lee Oswald double the value of the rifle and asked him the weekend before the assassination to bring the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle to the Depository on Friday. Lee Oswald apparently had no suspicion about the purchase because he would not even think about the possibility of President's Kennedy assassination. Hemming claimed that Lee Oswald brought his rifle disassembled. This proposition would assume that the rifle was brought to the building on that fateful Friday.

You also correctly pointed out to the possibility of Lee Oswald being lured into a collaboration on a mock assassination attempt. Walt Brown has elaborated on this possibility quite deeply in his excellent book "Treachery in Dallas". Oswald's leftist, pro-Castro and quasi-militant (backyard pictures) profile could have been used already in February-March 1963 when he purchased his rifle and a hand gun via a postal order: "look, a treasonous defector can purchase a rifle at will and flaunt the system" - this already could have been a stunt. (Walker shooting could also be a just a fake assassination attempt.) However, I believe that Lee Oswald knew that the rifle would at some point be traced to him via Hidell-Oswald association, only it would have taken somewhat longer than it did.  However, what he was not ready for was that the President was killed and that he now was made a scapegoat. The point is that Lee was thinking that the stakes were not that high because there would not be any shooting at the President, maybe a shot to the grass or a shot with blank ammunition, which on itself would be serious enough to start investigation and blaming the pro-Cuban organisation Fair Play For Cuba Committee. Moreover, Lee would not be on the sixth floor during the mock shooting, he was free to go out and let himself photographed as this would be his alibi and a plausible denial: "You have my rifle, the rifle was used for a shot that missed, but you know, I am out of it because I was somewhere else at the time of shooting. Somebody has used my rifle and I do not know who." Walt Brown assumed that only one shot was fired from the Mannlicher-Carcano with a blank ammunition, and that shot was basically still within the original "mock assassination" plan.

Lee Oswald's actions after the shooting reveal that he realised very quickly that he has been the patsy and the target. I would not like to bring the Prayer Man saga into this thread, however, I think that the moment of Lee's realisation of how badly he was duped has been captured in Darnell film. There he was (so some people including me believe) standing at the western wall, frozen, looking in an indiscriminate way (while all other doorway occupants except Buell Wesley Frazier were gazing toward Triple Underpass) and thinking what was all this about. It is beyond the scope of this thread to elaborate on Lee Oswald's next steps, however, I think he immediately left the doorway and started to search for his rifle in the storage spaces on the first and second floor, and not finding the rifle there, he was on his way to the upper floors to continue his search. At that moment, when approaching the landing in front of the back stairwell, he heard Officer Baker's and Superintendent Truly's steps and voices, and he realised it was too late. He slipped into the second floor lunchroom using the door facing the office hallway and this was how the second floor lunchroom encounter could have happened.

 

 

 

[Rob Clark]

[James DiEugenio]

Oh no.  Dave Perry and Gus Russo?

[Ron Bulman]

On 1/15/2020 at 9:51 PM, Rob Clark said:

Oh no...I've always wondered why he has been resistant to talking to researchers. Even back when Lane was doing his thing, Frazier wouldn't talk to him. If you read the notes from the HSCA investigators, they had quite a time pinning him down and getting him to talk to them. Ducking and dodging them, many times of him not showing up when he was supposed to, postponements, lawyers getting involved... He's been looked at for years as this hapless guy that happened to be in the wrong place, with the wrong person, at the time. He is the only living witness who REALLY knows for sure whether Oswald brought a rifle in a package to work. As a rifle owner and hunter, and being around guns in Texas your whole life,  you know darn well what a rifle in a hard shell case, soft shell case, leather case, canvas case, or wrapped in a freaking brown paper looks like. Oswald didnt have curtain rods, didnt need them, denied the story, and none were found. No 2 foot, thin dime store bag was found in the TSBD. That means one of two things...either Oswald had a rifle in a heavier type brown paper bag and Frazier knew it, lied about it because he didnt want to get pulled into all this, or Oswald didnt have a package or gun at all...PERIOD. It's as simple as that. EITHER WAY, HE'S BEEN LYING FOR 56 YEARS. We are running out of time for the truth!

I'd go with the latter on your one of two things, I.E. he didn't take anything in except his sandwich.  But that brought up the question years ago for me, who came up with the curtain rods?  I don't think Wesley came up with this on his own.  The story was then given some (supposed) support by Ruth Paine's claim of curtain rods in the garage.  Who could have dreamed up such a story and coordinated it between Wes and Ruth?  I've never said this publicly but since I'm out on a limb speculating...  I've also thought for a long time somebody got to Wes before the DPD did.  I wonder about the hours at the hospital with his dad.  That in the ongoing aftermath he was urged to keep a low profile.  Now, with further coaching he is useful in promoting the ongoing Warren Omission story.  Is Hugh Aynesworth writing the Foreword?

[Joe Bauer]

Did Frazier's sister ever say she also saw Oswald with a paper wrapped object when she saw Oswald through the kitchen window the morning of 11,22,1963?

And after what Will Fritz and the Dallas PD put Frazier through for hours upon hours that evening and then seeing Oswald blown away just two days later,

I could see Frazier clamming up about his connection to Oswald after being quite traumatized by the entire ordeal.

Kind of hard to see Frazier as some life long Oswald secret keeper imo.

He's not exactly a sophisticated spy type.

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

Joe, he wasn't sophisticated but intimidated.  Frazier's sis never saw out a window a package being carried to the car because there is no window on that side of the house.  You can check it out on google maps street view.  Nor would going to the back door to look out at Wes's car have worked as it couldn't be seen through the louvers on the side of the carport.   This is all discussed in depth on a thread here or on JFKFACTS.

[Joe Bauer]

8 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Joe, he wasn't sophisticated but intimidated.  Frazier's sis never saw out a window a package being carried to the car because there is no window on that side of the house.  You can check it out on google maps street view.  Nor would going to the back door to look out at Wes's car have worked as it couldn't be seen through the louvers on the side of the carport.   This is all discussed in depth on a thread here or on JFKFACTS.

Ron I see.

I shouldn't have mentioned a specific window.

I'm just trying to see if "anyone" besides Buell Frazier saw Oswald carrying a paper wrapped package to Frazier's car that morning.

I'm sure there are many threads and sites with this info. I would like a link to any of them for my own question answers.

[Rob Clark]

3 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

I'm just trying to see if "anyone" besides Buell Frazier saw Oswald carrying a paper wrapped package to Frazier's car that morning.

Linnie Mae Randle said she saw Oswald with a package, whether she actually did or not, nobody knows. According to TSBD employee Edward Shields, Frazier parked his car at the State Building that morning and that Oswald wasn't with him. He told Givens that upon being asked where his rider was, he said "I dropped him off at the building." Shields stated he overheard this conversation.  According to multiple TSBD employees, including Roy Lewis in an interview from 2017, stated Oswald rode with Frazier everyday and usually parked on the curve of Houston St. at the rear of the TSBD.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Rob Clark

[Pat Speer]

It seems like I have to repeat this post every year or so, but here goes... This bit about Frazier being reclusive and uncooperative is no longer accurate. He made an appearance at the 2014 Bethesda Conference, and was pleased to find most people were willing to listen to him, and has made numerous appearances since. I ran into him in a hallway late at night at that conference and asked him a few questions, which led to more questions, and more questions, and a small crowd gathered around. When all was said and done, three or four researchers beyond myself talked to Frazier for well over an hour. He didn't dodge any questions. In fact, he seemed delighted that people would listen to him. The sad truth about Frazier is that he's from the country, and sounds it. He's got an accent and is not particularly educated, or articulate, and he knows he comes across as a bumpkin. That was the main reason he shied away from the spotlight for so long. He was (and is?) ashamed of how he comes across--which was one of the reasons he was drawn to Oswald--who came from humble beginnings but nevertheless came across as educated.

But he's by no means a dummy. The next year, as I recall,  Frazier attended the Lancer Conference, with his son. His son was an Armed Forces radio disc jockey, as I recall. In any event, he was once again quite forthcoming, telling people the truth as he sees it. He was also quite open to outside questions. Frazier and his son took questions for a good half hour after his presentation, and announcement of his upcoming book.

A year or two later (time fades), moreover, I ran into Frazier again. This time he was in the Lancer book room, selling paper bags the size of the bag he saw in Oswald's possession. Despite the fact I did not buy a bag,  we had yet another hour long chat about the events of 11-22-63, and life in general.  He could have blown me off, but didn't. I think he was sincerely grateful to have someone listen to him who wasn't trying to force their theory on him.

Takeaways from these conversations.

1. Frazier stands by his statements he saw Oswald carrying a bag, and stands by his statements the bag was too small to hold the assassination rifle.

2. While discussing the whole paper bag story, I pointed out to him that the "official" story holds that Oswald brought the paper out to Irving the night before the assassination, in his (Frazier's) car. Frazier states, as fact, that this did not happen--that he would have noticed if Oswald had had a large paper bag folded up under his shirt. (I'm curious to see how he deals with this in his book, and whether Aynesworth and/or Perry have convinced him to back off from this point--on which he was most adamant.)

3. Frazier did not see Oswald on the steps during or after the shooting.  (As I recall, one person showed him the prayer man image and asked him if this was Oswald and he said no he didn't know who that was. If he'd said it was Sarah Stanton, or someone else known to have been on the steps, that would have been one thing. But he didn't. So it remains to be seen how he'll deal with "prayer person" in his book.)

4. When I last spoke to Frazier, I stressed to him that he was pretty much the last co-worker of Oswald's standing, and that he really needed to fill in the blanks about Jack Dougherty, Billy Lovelady, Charles Givens, etc. I told him that he should devote a significant portion of his book to his co-workers beyond Oswald. He seemed to agree and told me a bit about Dougherty, including that Dougherty was not "retarded" as claimed by Truly, but a little off, which to me meant "autistic".  He said that Dougherty was big and strong, and that he would sometimes wrestle Frazier with one arm while wrestling Lovelady with the other. 

 

So.... I'm expecting Frazier's book to be in line with his public statements---that is a conspiracy book that is still somehow disappointing to most CT's still buying books.

 

Edited March 10, 2020 by Pat Speer

[Ron Bulman]

9 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Ron I see.

I shouldn't have mentioned a specific window.

I'm just trying to see if "anyone" besides Buell Frazier saw Oswald carrying a paper wrapped package to Frazier's car that morning.

I'm sure there are many threads and sites with this info. I would like a link to any of them for my own question answers.

Joe this is not the thread I was talking about but it is interesting and relevant.  Before I ever posted here in the years I just lurked and read I always enjoyed the comments of Gil Jesus.  I wonder what ever happened to him.

Don't miss this link within the article.  On a rainy cloudy morning 15 minutes after normal sunup, I don't think anyone could see through the plastic louvers clearly enough to ID Oswald or that he was putting a package in the back seat. 

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0097a.htm

Plus she gives conflicting testimony.

[Ron Bulman]

7 hours ago, Rob Clark said:

Linnie Mae Randle said she saw Oswald with a package, whether she actually did or not, nobody knows. According to TSBD employee Edward Shields, Frazier parked his car at the State Building that morning and that Oswald wasn't with him. He told Givens that upon being asked where his rider was, he said "I dropped him off at the building." Shields stated he overheard this conversation.  According to multiple TSBD employees, including Roy Lewis in an interview from 2017, stated Oswald rode with Frazier everyday and usually parked on the curve of Houston St. at the rear of the TSBD.

I thought the name Roy Lewis sounded familiar.  But I never remember reading Oswald rode with Frazier every day and usually parked on the curb of Houston at the rear of the TSBD.  Is this possibly where he says it?  I can't hear what they are saying with the volume all the way up.

 https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Roy+Lewis+Texas+School+Book+Depository&view=detail&mid=7DF43A1FB92B6E39DAD07DF43A1FB92B6E39DAD0&FORM=VIRE

There's something mentioned on the Who Was Prayer Man site about WC CD954 but I didn't find it there or in a google search.

[James DiEugenio]

We have been through this many times.

If you follow Linnie's testimony it is very hard to buy her story since the car was--correct me if I am wrong-- allegedly on the other side of the carport.   

Frazier also said he locked his car doors every night.   But the HSCA asked him then, how did Oswald place a bag in the car?

Frazier replied well, there was that one door lock that was broken, and that was the exact door that Oswald opened.

Moriarty said words to the effect , hmm, you can help us figure that one out.