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1959 Passport impossibility - ID used has different photo


David Josephs
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33 minutes ago, John Butler said:

David,

The FBI doc confirms what we had talked about earlier concerning the rank differences between the two Oswalds in the fall of 1956.  This rank difference and discharge date suggests strongly.that Lee Oswald entered the Marines at least 6-8 moths earlier than Harvey.  That would have made him 16 when he entered the Corps.

Or was simply discharged earlier and became a spook???  just a thought.  

Gorsky specifically stating that the man's records were sent to DC.... in March 1959.... 

Allen GRAF says he was Oswald's platoon sergeant at EL TORO (not the same place as the Airbase in Santa Ana) for 6-8 months... John ELY was to write Oswald's biography yet repeatedly he comes in contact with men who know HARVEY but those who know LEE are unfamiliar - Rankin and Jenner knew they needed to do something about it...

I doubt Allen is talking about 1957 at El Toro for 2 months just prior to going to the Far East....  the 12-22-58 - 9-4-59 must have been HARVEY which is yet another example of how 2 men were combined into one record....  we're not sure what LEE did until October 1959 yet we have the interview of MRS STEENBARGE and her son...

2029442256_LOUISESTEENBARGERseesLeeOswaldonaplanetoFrance-OswaldgoingtoGermany.thumb.jpg.01d7e4c2c1a9c47a0db7481e33261744.jpg

 

 

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989294876_WCROswaldmarineassignmentsendingwithSantaAnawithGorskytalkingaboutElToro.jpg.9721af8b0dc4a5f5aeedb64b04ac18ab.jpg

 

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On 2/11/2020 at 6:05 PM, David Josephs said:

Yes Steve - the 1959 Passport...

Point is the photo and ID is faked....  Oswald shows them ID, and either has a photo taken or offers one that isn't the same person...

I simply find this indicative of the charade being played out by Military Intel with help from the CIA...

We come to find the 2 hotels in Helsinki that were way above his means, were CIA favorites and used by other CIA passing thru to Moscow...

FWIW

Who's Steve?  I thought Stephanie might be legit?

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On 2/14/2020 at 6:31 AM, John Butler said:

59b8004b2ded4_OswaldDODphotobothsidesreversedandpasted.thumb.jpg.b8ddb3e17ea25b8387f39ae02b198333.jpg

The center guy is reminiscent of the Oswald standing on the bridge with Marina in Minsk, IMO. 

For Chris B.  What's the big deal?  David Josephs, Jack White, and others have pointed out these features of composite photos for years.  If you agree that there is hanky-panky in one photo then I feel you have to open your eyes to the possibility there is photo editing going on in other source photos and films.

Chris says "The photo must have been a practice run because it never would have passed inspection."  Here, again I have to take a different view.  In my experience the general viewer will except worse than that and see it as true and reliable.  Others, for various reasons, will battle to the end that the photo is real and unaltered. 

Chris B. said, "For anyone looking closely at the photo I made you can ignore the lips. Rather than rotate both faces to vertical I got lazy and left them tilted. But the crop line down the middle of the face is a vertical line so it shows some errors by the time you get down to the lips."

Composites are made with more complexity than just matching one side of a face to another.  Details, such as you have cited are adjusted by adding smaller photo cutouts to take care of details that are not working.   Artwork, generally using darkened areas to represent shadows can shape the contours of various features to make them seem more realistic.  Brightened or lightened areas work the same way to cover up various things and make that appear more realistic.  There are more techniques than just one in these photos.

That bad composite of Oswald may have been able to fool the DMV and maybe a passport application. But of course Headley composite in the backyard photos like that we would have solid proof today that those photos are fake. Things in the backyard photos are debatable but no scientifically testable positive proof. I think they would have had to do a much better job on evidence like that or we would have busted them. I do believe there must be higher levels of technique and compositing a face but I bet there's some severe limitations to it. That's a guess because we don't know what the CIA could do then  or now

John, I am definitely open to fakery in any image I look at, basically because I'm pretty convinced that the Stemmons pincushion issue put forth by Dr Costella demonstrates an actual case of fakery. I also posted a thread about a year ago about Oswald's lean in 133 a and I'm almost completely convinced that it represents a cut and paste. At the same time I can probably name about 30 claims of photographic fakery that can be debunked.

I just took a look at Jack White's claim that he proved Mary Mormons position as shown in the Zapruder film does not match the line of sight in her photo. What I found was he based it on the position of a limo he placed on Elm Street at frame 313. He then overlaid Zapruder frame 312 to match the position of the limo. But I can now prove he had placed the limo in the wrong position. At least four feet farther east than it should have been. I have found most all of Jack White's claims we're not valid. And to go all conspiracy here I suspect his partner Gary Mack was actually there to screw up his investigations.

That bad composite of Oswald may have been able to fool the DMV and maybe a passport application. But of course any composite in the backyard photos like that and we would have solid proof today that those photos are fake. Things in the backyard photos are debatable but no scientifically testable positive proof. I think they would have had to do a much better job on evidence or we would have busted them. I do believe there must be higher levels of technique and compositing of faces but I bet there's some severe limitations to it. That's a guess because we don't know what the CIA could do then  or now

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On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 2:09 PM, David Josephs said:

Or was simply discharged earlier and became a spook???  just a thought.

A good thought, more then speculation and based on evidence of the Steenbarge letter in 1978.

This let's me trot out my bias again.  With the Steenbarge letter we now have two Oswalds in Europe in Oct. 1959.  One, Lee,  in Germany and the other, Harvey, in Finland and Russia.  That's closer to putting two Oswalds in Russia at the same time.  (my bias)  

According to Steenbarge after Lee Oswald landed in either Rhine/Maine or Frankfort, Germany he disappears from the records.  Supposedly, he is back in the Southeastern US later than mid-October.  I think there is a record for him with a general notation of being in New Orleans from Nov. 1, 1959.  David doesn't specify the source of this in his timeline.  He just notes that Lee Oswald in in NOLA in Nov. 1, 1959.

Perhaps David can provide more information here on Lee's whereabouts in NOLA at the first of Nov. 1959.  There must be something to denote this.  If so, then another smoking gun, or.:drive

Like so many of my notions, they often run afoul of the evidence.

 

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On 2/11/2020 at 12:24 PM, David Josephs said:

Talk about hiding in plain sight!

In September 1959 in California, Oswald applied for a PASSPORT using his DoD inactive ID - as noted on the application itself...

Problem being the DoD ID has a photo of HARVEY Oswald from years later and was used to create the fake ALEX HIDELL SSS Card

 

David,

I wonder who Leo Oswald was.

image.png.579e855acde145b1a57a7dcdf0ea9de0.png

 

Steve Thomas

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Steve,

Let's see.  We have a Lee Harvey Oswald, a Harvey Oswald, a Leon Oswald, O. H. Lee, , not to mention Alek Oswald (James Alex Hidell,) and now a Leo Oswald.  These names are from various, different records.

Leo Oswald.  A sharp eye.

Maybe the lone nutters are right an Lee Harvey Oswald was as goofy as an outhouse rat.  Nah...  there's to much evidence stating there were at least two Oswalds or perhaps more. 

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1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said:

David,

I wonder who Leo Oswald was.

image.png.579e855acde145b1a57a7dcdf0ea9de0.png

 

Steve Thomas

This seems to have been typed by someone after the fact looking at the signature which you just cut off...

I think a real problem - as I see it - is his using that DOD ID with HARVEY's picture, yet the passport has Lee..

Do you think that DoD card had a similar photo to the Passport, and was changed later... or simply not used as ID and the typing was well after the fact and a cya...

(Here's a mock-up of what the card SHOULD have looked like...  if he shows the bottom one and gives them or takes a photo for the passport... what up??

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... or ???  As we both know, he should not have had that card at the time of the 1959 passport application....

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Alex-James-Hidell-draft-card-replaced.jp

David,

This is my first effort at using layers.  I thought your excellent effort above could maybe use a third government ID with Harvey's photo from Dallas on it.  (don't mind the draft card I couldn't at the moment find the government ID)

That would clearly show the differences in the facial photographs attributed to Harvey Oswald. 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

There is no "Harvey." Paperwork anomalies notwithstanding, every single photo being discussed here is of the same person - the one and only historical Lee Harvey Oswald.

Anything to offer beyond your word Jon?  You know what they say about opinions...  but a well documented argument is hard to ignore...
Whatcha got?

This Asst PROVO MARSHALL talks of the Lee Oswald he knows

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The biographer John Ely finds some interesting things as well

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As serious as Gorsky and March 1959....  :P

Brady, I believe, was simply a HSCA staffer...

The story of Harvey's crossing on a ship is also kind of interesting... I've written about it here so do a search...

Take care... DJ

2 diff signatures... where have we seen that?

  

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