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1959 Passport impossibility - ID used has different photo


David Josephs
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DJ,

Thank you for bringing together all these USMC documents!  Ever since I read H&L all those years ago, I thought the Marine Corps records were among the very best evidence of two Oswalds.  It's just all over the place in those docs, which is remarkable since there was surely a serious effort to conceal them.

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On 5/6/2020 at 11:56 AM, Jonathan Cohen said:

There is no "Harvey." Paperwork anomalies notwithstanding, every single photo being discussed here is of the same person - the one and only historical Lee Harvey Oswald.

Hit and run Jon?  Do all your opinions get this much supporting data...

Cheers Jon... to each their own.
 :cheers

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20 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Hit and run Jon?  Do all your opinions get this much supporting data...

Cheers Jon... to each their own.
 :cheers

No "supporting data" will ever satisfy H&L adherents that they're actually talking about the same person - not two distinct individuals who magically look exactly alike. All the supporting data anyone would ever need comes from the exhumation, which proves there was one and only one Lee Harvey Oswald. Was Oswald impersonated at various points throughout the assassination? I believe he was, in an attempt to strengthen the eventual case against him. But that certainly does not require subscribing to the preposterous and throughly debunked notion that he was part of a CIA doppelganger project.

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1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

DJ,

Thank you for bringing together all these USMC documents!  Ever since I read H&L all those years ago, I thought the Marine Corps records were among the very best evidence of two Oswalds.  It's just all over the place in those docs, which is remarkable since there was surely a serious effort to conceal them.

Always my pleasure Jim....   

So many people are aware of each of these men, separately,  and yet the Military offers enough excuses and/or in many cases simply ignores the evidence...

Then there's this nonsense... Official LEE military photo shows a man with an enormous head...  yet these are the same person?

2056013423_HarveyandLeeArrestandMarinephotoswithsizechart-small.jpg.13b9658a851f3458e649b12621f5ce29.jpg

And then there is the body mechanics... shoulder slopes and sheeer size...  5'8" 135 versus 5'11" 160...  people do not shrink from age 18 to 24....

  

813255003_Oswald-Harveysquareshoulders-LEEdroppedshoulders-moreexamplesincollage.thumb.jpg.18272493737ada97d59209feb400311b.jpg

 

990183609_LittleHarveyandBigLee.jpg.fbfbe365a5a082348e9e0819f1753bd4.jpg

 

Everything based on lined up left eye...

59f262c2eb7c1_matching-lhocolorized.jpg.d78fb29017768625e87b5e4c2058f8ed.jpg

712961847_MilitarySpecialtyandCivilianrelatedoccupation.jpg.9d6d9d1fd2ebc3608a9df642ac13814c.jpg  yet his training was AIRCRAFT MECHANICS...  what up?

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On 2/14/2020 at 1:09 PM, David Josephs said:

Gorsky specifically stating that the man's records were sent to DC.... in March 1959.... 

Allen GRAF says he was Oswald's platoon sergeant at EL TORO (not the same place as the Airbase in Santa Ana) for 6-8 months... John ELY was to write Oswald's biography yet repeatedly he comes in contact with men who know HARVEY but those who know LEE are unfamiliar - Rankin and Jenner knew they needed to do something about it...

I doubt Allen is talking about 1957 at El Toro for 2 months just prior to going to the Far East....  the 12-22-58 - 9-4-59 must have been HARVEY which is yet another example of how 2 men were combined into one record....  we're not sure what LEE did until October 1959 yet we have the interview of MRS STEENBARGE and her son...

2029442256_LOUISESTEENBARGERseesLeeOswaldonaplanetoFrance-OswaldgoingtoGermany.thumb.jpg.01d7e4c2c1a9c47a0db7481e33261744.jpg

 

 

803779477_MatrixofAssassination-GorskyandtheTaiwanMarines.thumb.jpg.e15dc32e08b36b1e7a2a3e4ae9b1a7a0.jpg

 

701064406_JennertoRankinaboutJohnElyandhisOswaldtimelineproblems-web.jpg.9a5b098c13e31e547706f76b8dcc8c9e.jpg

 

989294876_WCROswaldmarineassignmentsendingwithSantaAnawithGorskytalkingaboutElToro.jpg.9721af8b0dc4a5f5aeedb64b04ac18ab.jpg

 

Looks like no one can seriously "explain" the impossibilities of the '59 passport, and so I'd just like to repeat my favorite example of all the Marine Corps evidence for two Oswalds, which is:

Harvey Oswald traveled by ship to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan.

HARVEY Oswald Departed for Taiwan Aboard the USS Skagit (AKA 105) on Sept. 14, 1958. Note "AKA 105" Under "Record of Events" near top left of this document:

09%2014%2058.jpg

The Unit Diary below shows that HARVEY Oswald was in Ping Tung, Taiwan, on Oct. 6, 1958.

10%2006%2058.jpg

Here’s a 1953 image of the ship Harvey Oswald took .  Note the “K.A. 105” lettering by the bow.

uss%20skagit.jpg

 

During this very same time Harvey was aboard the USS Skagit and stationed in Taiwan, LEE  Oswald was being treated for V.D in Atsugi, Japan.  From September 14 through October 6 HARVEY Oswald was in Taiwan. At the same time, from September 16 through October 6, LEE Oswald was in Japan. Medical records for NAS Navy 3835 (Naval Hospital), located in Atsugi, Japan, show numerous medical entries for LEE Oswald recorded on Sept 16, 20, 22, 23, 29, and Oct 6.. HARVEY Oswald's assignment in Taiwan, while LEE Oswald made numerous visits to the Naval Hospital in Japan, are an obvious "smoking gun."

1-medical%2009:1958.jpg2-medical%2009:5858.jpg

 

Edited by Jim Hargrove
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2 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

No "supporting data" will ever satisfy H&L adherents that they're actually talking about the same person - not two distinct individuals who magically look exactly alike. All the supporting data anyone would ever need comes from the exhumation, which proves there was one and only one Lee Harvey Oswald. Was Oswald impersonated at various points throughout the assassination? I believe he was, in an attempt to strengthen the eventual case against him. But that certainly does not require subscribing to the preposterous and throughly debunked notion that he was part of a CIA doppelganger project.

You don't seem to understand Jon that YOU are being asked to back YOUR claims... not question ours... yet.

You want to read and cherry pick from a few dis-tractors, have at it....  but don't post like you know anything about the subject... they call that PARROTING

Which of all this debunking evidence do you like THE BEST for countering what ELY & Jenner wrote below?

btw, If you're not aware, El Toro and Santa Ana are two separate and distinct locations

883989037_ElToroAirStationversusSantaAnaAirBASE.thumb.jpg.4e9f2bb89974305444c8ebe4af7a3446.jpg

59d7ec98bea8c_Elyhighlighted-AlanGrafandmarinescompletelyunknowntohiswork.jpg.005d710a55febefbd3c46279f4ab18a1.jpg

701064406_JennertoRankinaboutJohnElyandhisOswaldtimelineproblems-web.jpg.9a5b098c13e31e547706f76b8dcc8c9e.jpg... 

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On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2020 at 10:47 AM, David Josephs said:

As serious as Gorsky and March 1959....  :P

Brady, I believe, was simply a HSCA staffer...

The story of Harvey's crossing on a ship is also kind of interesting... I've written about it here so do a search...

Take care... DJ

2 diff signatures... where have we seen that?

  

1484847204_oswaldhotelcardsfromhelsinkihavediffsignatureslikeCubanvisaAPP.jpg.bb66966bb4e371bde97a2b3d676d9cf1.jpg

 

 

 

David,

There's really no excuse for my laziness.  After awhile I shamed myself into looking that up and found your earlier work before you posted.  Good work I might say.  As serious as Gorsky and March says serious to me. 

So, is it worth putting into your timeline?  I believe it is.  It might even make more sense of the Lee Oswald / Steve Landesberg stories of Oswald and his buddy touring Europe in 60 If memory serves.

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John,

Speaking of boot camp (or right after, depending on who you believe)…. 

“Lee Harvey Oswald” was diagnosed with tonsillitis on 1/6/57, which is remarkable since the FBI told us he had a tonsillectomy about a dozen years earlier.

Of course H&L critics want us to believe that this sort of thing happens all the time, but it mostly happens to “Lee Harvey Oswald.”  Like, you know, when he loses two inches in height between the ages of 20 and 23, or when his adult front teeth grow back in his coffin.

tonsillits.jpgtonsilectomy.jpg

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5 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Of course H&L critics want us to believe that this sort of thing happens all the time, but it mostly happens to “Lee Harvey Oswald.”  Like, you know, when he loses two inches in height between the ages of 20 and 23, or when his adult front teeth grow back in his coffin.

Since he regrew his teeth and tonsils do you think he might have a touch of vampirism and would eventually rise from the grave to everyone in the CIA's horror.  Maybe his loss of two inches was bound up in the regrowth of organs?  When he eventually rises do you think he will tell all?  Will he reveal those dark secrets that he took to the grave?

Will he really tell us that he truly was the son of Emile Kardos, AKA Emil Gardos?  Will he tell us what he was doing at all those mysterious military bases?  Oh... pardon, that was Lee.  Will he tell us dark secrets naming names of the high and mighty?

When will he arise?  Soooo...nnnn!  Beware all you scoffers and deniers.  The truth will be revealed Soooo....nnnn…

   

 

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On 5/9/2020 at 8:42 AM, John Butler said:

I ran across this recently and haven't seen it before.

Had seen it but without the caption....  here is a partial list of men in San Diego... tells us where the men are from as well...

I don't see any Evansville, Indiana....  This shows "DAVIS, ELAM, OSWALD & SCOTT" were recruited from Dallas TX.... 

And the WRONG Felde (not Robert A Felde but Alex R Felde) coming from Wisconsin...

56-27.thumb.jpg.c76dc089864bb5d58729a315c485caa5.jpg

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42 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Had seen it but without the caption....  here is a partial list of men in San Diego... tells us where the men are from as well...

I don't see any Evansville, Indiana....  This shows "DAVIS, ELAM, OSWALD & SCOTT" were recruited from Dallas TX.... 

And the WRONG Felde (not Robert A Felde but Alex R Felde) coming from Wisconsin...

56-27.thumb.jpg.c76dc089864bb5d58729a315c485caa5.jpg

This yearbook photo was also there with the photo.  Supposedly there were 6 men from Indiana who went through basic with Oswald.

oswald-and-marines-in-an-annual-1.jpg

the whole thing may be a fraud based on the original photo:

marines-oswald-men-from-indiana-bloused-

These do not appear to be Marines from 1956.  Their uniform and boots appear to be from the early to mid-1960s.  The only 1950ish thing I see in this photo in the wooden stock from the M1 Garand which was not totally phased out in the Marines in favor of the M14 rifle until about 1965.  Someone has forged evidence claiming association with Oswald.

Here is a more realistic photo of Marines of the Mid-1950s.  You can also check what is being said here by reviewing Oswald's 201 file photos on board ship enroute to Japan.

Marines-of-1960s-with-brown-boots.jpg

What is phony is the bloused boots.  This was something the US Army did and not the Marines.  The US Army did not adopt shiny, calf length, black boots until 1957.  Prior to that Army boots were brown.  The marines did not adopt shiny, calf length, black boots until much later than 1956.  If you will, notice the brown ankle sized boots of that period.  These were easier to get off in case your ship was sunk and you had to go into the water.  Most Marine transportation in those days was done by Naval transport.

Marines on Bexar ship:

lho-180-1.jpg

Notice unbloused boots.

I was told by Navy people that the reason for Navy bell bottom trousers and Marines not blousing their boots had to do with jumping into water.  Air would supposedly enter their trouser legs and that would make them float better or longer.  I don't know whether that's true or not, but that was what I was told by Navy personnel.

 

Edited by John Butler
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16 minutes ago, John Butler said:

Someone has forged evidence claiming association with Oswald.

Another questionable thing about this photo is that people from Evansville, Indiana were sent to California for basic training.  The Marine Corps had two training centers.  One at Paris Island, SC, which handled trainees from the east part of the US, namely east of the Mississippi River.  The other was in San Diego, CA, which trained people from the western part of the US, namely west of the Mississippi River.

I have written of this before.  I helps explains some of the anomalies of the two Oswalds.  If Lee joined the Marines at age 16 (illegally) in New Orleans he would have been sent to Paris Island to do basic training.  There is some evidence for Lee Oswald to be in South Carolina at Paris Island in the summer of 1956.  This would help keep their military records separate.

Harvey, just turned 17, would enlist in the Marines in Ft. Worth and be assigned to the training center in San Diego. 

 

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