Jump to content
The Education Forum

Mexico City: Evidence Oswald may have been in an operation targeting Bakulin


Anthony Mugan
 Share

Recommended Posts

There's an impressive body of evidence concerning the quite extensive counter-intelligence operation in Mexico City in the days and weeks immediately after Oswald's visit, starting straight after the interception of the impersonation of Oswald on the telephone call on the 1st October, intercepted by the LIENVOY project. There has been some phenomenal work done on all this by a whole range of people and I am deeply indebted to the team that has put together the remarkable range of resources, such as the CIA Cryptonyms pages and the repository of documentation on the Mary Ferrell website.

In the attached paper I argue that the nature of the CI response excludes anyone connected with the wiretap operations and also excludes any reference to Cuba and Cuban operations. The reaction was very focused on Soviet operations and appears to include agents involved in an operation targeting a GRU officer, Valentin Bakulin, as a possible defection target, as well as agents involved in physical surveillance or who might have plausibly physically encountered Oswald. In the paper I suggest that, rather than the molehunt in Mexico City being based on a concern that LIENVOY was compromised, it was based on a concern that the operation targeting Bakulin had been compromised, with the blatant impersonation of Oswald telling the CIA (particularly Bill Bright who had been long aware of Oswald and was involved in the Bakulin operation) that something had gone wrong.

As always, any facts that would create a counter arguments, or any errors of fact or interpretation you may be able to point out (or for that matter other information that may add to the case) would be greatly appreciated. 

The Mexico City Molehunt_Was Oswald part of an operation targeting Bakulin.docx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Anthony Mugan said:

 

In the attached paper I argue that the nature of the CI response excludes anyone connected with the wiretap operations and also excludes any reference to Cuba and Cuban operations. The reaction was very focused on Soviet operations and appears to include agents involved in an operation targeting a GRU officer, Valentin Bakulin, as a possible defection target,

The Mexico City Molehunt_Was Oswald part of an operation targeting Bakulin.docx 33 kB · 3 downloads

Anthony,

Congratulations. One can tell that you put a lot of work into this, and your conclusions are reasonable and very thought provoking.

What, do you think,  would Bakulin have been able to offer to the U.S.?

 

Steve Thomas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/104-10215-10016.pdf

"There is no further record of any operation to target Bakulin after the 20th July memo discussing the possible use of various assets for this purpose."

Hey there Anthony -

I've done a bit of work on Mexico and am very interested in your work (although I still am not sure if an Oswald of any kind showed up in Mexico at the embassies there)

Above is a link from the recently released docs from Aug 1963 and it includes mention of BAKULIN going to San Diego?

 

I hope the follow helps in some way.... DJ

 

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/104-10215-10017.pdf

this is an Aug 2 1963 CIA note asking if SUBJECT BAKULIN is to be developed - and seems to have been given a 201- number

 

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/104-10215-10266.pdf

This one says BAKULIN was known as OXBLOOD

 

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/104-10215-10018.pdf

The July 20 1963 memo from CIA discussing what BAKULIN did and some of those running in his circles... still redacted though...

 

File Name Record Num Agency Doc Date To Name From Name Title
2018/104-10215-10025.pdf 104-10215-10025 CIA 07/02/1962 D/OS DEPARTMENT OF DOS DD PLANS SUBJECT: BAKULIN, VALENTIN VASILEVICH.
2018/104-10215-10266.pdf 104-10215-10266 CIA 05/01/1963 THE RECORD BRIGHT BILL SR/CI/A MEMO : VALENTIN V. BAKULIN
104-10215-10018.pdf 104-10215-10018 CIA 07/20/1963 DIRECTOR MEXICO CITY SINCE REF STATION HAS TRIED SPOT CANDIDATES FOR PLAUSIBLE ACCESS VALENTIN VASILYEVICH BAKULIN WHOSE OVERT ACTIVITY IS PRINCIPALLY THAT OF SUPPLYING PROPAGANDA FILMS TO INTERESTED LOCAL GROUPS.
2018/104-10215-10018.pdf 104-10215-10018 CIA 07/20/1963 DIRECTOR MEXICO CITY SINCE REF STATION HAS TRIED SPOT CANDIDATES FOR PLAUSIBLE ACCESS VALENTIN VASILYEVICH BAKULIN WHOSE OVERT ACTIVITY IS PRINCIPALLY THAT OF SUPPLYING PROPAGANDA FILMS TO INTERESTED LOCAL GROUPS.
2018/104-10215-10017.pdf 104-10215-10017 CIA 08/02/1963 MEXICO CITY DIRECTOR POA INITIATED ON POSSIBLE ACCESS ASSET TO BAKULIN MENTIONED PARA 2 REF.
2018/104-10215-10016.pdf 104-10215-10016 CIA 08/16/1963 MEXICO CITY DIRECTOR LIMITED INDICATION THAT BAKULIN IN MEXI FROM 18 THROUGH 23 JULY, JUST HOW DID LIMITED CONCLUDE THIS?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very interesting Anthony!   One of the things that has held my attention for some time is the chaos created by the various spy games being played against both the Russians and Cubans in Mexico City.  Certainly the CIA ran its own operations, on occasion using assets run out of either JMWAVE or using AMOTS deployed to Mexico City.  Bill Simpich and Stu Wexler have spent a lot of time on those over the years, collecting a great deal of research not all of which has been written up  yet, same for David Boylan. 

The FBI also ran its own projects - and sometimes the two shared information and ran joint efforts, especially if the Cubans or Russians were doing something that would cross the border one way or the other into the US.  Beyond that there is the question of what the Russians might have been doing in terms of gaming the US or even the Cubans in Mexico City.

Whether the Bakulin project ties directly to an Oswald impersonation or not, your paper is extremely educational in helping us understand how such counter intelligence projects worked.

What puzzles me equally, is if this much effort was put into Bakulin, what in the world did the FBI do about a known Russian agent who had been handed off to them by the CIA from activities in Europe and who was apparently in the American southwest, crossing back and forth into Mexico and actively conducting espionage (and possibly setting up sabotage networks). Such a target would appear to have drown a great amount of FBI attention but as far as I know the documents recovered to date are virtually non-existent once the CIA hands him over to the FBI.  We know names and crypts...but where is his story?  If someone has done some new work on Tumbleweed I would love to see it.  Certainly it should be equal to or greater than this Bakulin activity.

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/cryptdb.php?id=AEBURBLE

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Anthony Mugan said:

Anthony,

You wrote,

“In the immediate aftermath of the apparent impersonation of Lee Harvey Oswald, there was a significant level of reaction by the CIA indicating a concern that there may have been a serious security breach in Mexico City.”

 

“To date most authors have suggested that the concern was over a possible breach of security around the highly sensitive LIENVOY wiretap operations...”

 

“Overall the documentary evidence argues that the concern was focused on a security breach in operations against the Soviets rather than Cuba...”

 

Do you think that someone either let it slip to the Soviets, or in a casual conversation, revealed information that could only have been obtained though a wiretap, that the Soviet Embassy was being wiretapped?

 

Steve Thomas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anthony - After six years, it is great to see someone fully take on and question my hypothesis about Mexico City.  

I don't have time to fully analyze your work just now, but it is deeply thoughtful and you've put the right amount of time into it.

To aid your work, let me provide to you and everyone else my chrono on Bakulin.  

Again, I don't have time to fully summarize it, but I spent some time thinking about the possible links between Oswald and Bakulin because of a number of the factors you listed.

It is pretty clear to me that Bakulin had a drinking problem and was being assessed as a possible double agent at the beginning of October 1963.

Three amazing aspects to Bakulin:

One is that - like the FPCC - Bakulin was the focus of a joint CIA-FBI operation starting in May 1963.   These "joint" operations were unusual, as I understand it - Lou De Santi worked with Harvey's aide Anita Potocki during July 63 on a joint CIA-FBI operation against the FPCC, and wrote that he "expressed the hope that this would be only our first joint effort".

Another amazing aspect - he visited professor Olga Ferrer of LSU in September 1963 - after she asked to visit with Kuzentsov and Leonov - and she claimed to have defected in 1964.  Ferrer had a Russian background with a Hispanic last name - people have tried to tie her with Oswald because they were in New Orleans at the same time, but nothing definitive.  Was she a double or triple agent?

There is yet another amazing aspect - which I have never revealed until now - a possible link between Bakulin and Robert Webster.

Bakulin's wife was Vera Ivanovna.  Webster's Russian girlfriend - who sparked his defection - was Vera Ivchenko.  

Vera Ivchenko is described by the CIA as the hot young woman that prompted Webster's defection in Oct 59.

Vera Ivanovna - also known as Vera Ivchenko - is the subject of a heavily redacted document dated October  26, 1959.  

This document - 104-10181-10122 - is right in the middle of the Robert Webster file.

The question has to be asked:  Was Bakulin's wife the honey trap for Robert Webster?

Bill

P.S. Here is my chrono on Bakulin - see what comes up for you!

Angus Thuermer called himself the cia spooksman - did public affairs
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/08/AR2010050803354.html

thuermer wrote a memo about confusion in identification of oswald re webster!  6/20/75 blind memo
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=411682
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=22859&relPageId=16

Vera Ivanovna in aug 59 married to bakulin (as seen further on -
7-14-60 Goodpasture observes Bakulin and his block head looking around MC and not missing much.
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=515674

larob docs go from late 61 to may 18, 62, the day after either lho or webster leave ussr (note - more later)
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=47771&relPageId=2

4/18/61 bakulin was nearby when communists set fire to mexicanamerican institute
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=55419&relPageId=65
even reported by wash post
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=55419&relPageId=64
4/21 more on attack
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=47781&relPageId=2

6/62 military attache, prob c/o in gru operations
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=55419&relPageId=52

Bakulin and family return to USSR June 19, 1962
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=43110&relPageId=4
This document is Bakulin's redcap sheet
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=43110&relPageId=7

July 62 movement of bakulin and bakulina - reported by ny fbi
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=515641
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=515639

Returns to Mexico sept 62
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=43110&relPageId=4

63-64 vera bakulina was still married to bakulin
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=515605
born 9/27/27, son born 54 - vera ivanovna worked as secy to sov commercial attache during "fillipova tenure" - that means philippines!
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=515605
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=613398
Another memo giving her birthdate as 9/27/27
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=613391
Her matronym was morozova, had a son born in 54
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=613391

This could be the same Vera Ivanovna that lived with Webster, she used last name of Ivchenko -10/26/59 
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=391673
 
10/26/59 document explicitly linking Webster and Ivchenko
Here her last name is platonova - vera ivanova platonova
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=390472

Vera Ivchenko pregnant by webster, not divorced from her husband
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=584951
vera resided at house 63, apt 18 in leningrad
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=584840
she worked at ukriane hotel - prob ukranian
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=1210930

both names ivanovna and platonova addressed in this memo
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=16424&relPageId=3

bakulin is 201-261813
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=240180


movement of soviet nationals, both of them
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=613460
he was employee in sov mil attache's office in mc 59-64
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=393750


BILL BRIGHT, SR/CI/4, May 63, is he now in MC?
jan. 1960-june 62, bakulin was mex based gru officer handling lineb-1, known to fbi as Oxblood
he's following a sov commercial officer named shaynok in mexico city, while working on bakulin file
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=55419&relPageId=43
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=461725 - fewer redactions

Note that from January 1960 until May 62 - Oswald was in Minsk (and so was Webster)
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=73691

May 1963 - joint kubark-odenvy (part of cia chrono to review)
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=43110&relPageId=4
 
 
May 63 - Larob was providing info on US army manuals and air bases to Bakulin.
 

May 25, 1963 Bakulin in trouble with his station, he's drinking too much, was reprimanded for unprofessionalism in lineb op, now
c/o for a odenvy lcimprove op (larob) - this was leak to manell/gestetner from matt crawford of fbi, gest believes leak intentional and approved by local chief odenvy
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=393778

May 27, 1963 MEXI 4741 asst attache Matt Crawford appears to be fbi c/o on bakulin case
cia c/o wants an all out effort to recruit bakulin
bakulin is c/o for lineb-1 - a double agent of cia
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=17441&relPageId=2

lineb in the mexico city file, 201-204930, additional numbers 65/710/70 and 50-6-66 box 20
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=234667
'
6/4/63 secret fbi larob doc  104-10215-10265
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=47762&relPageId=2
 
6/4/63 WC Bright of SR 6 slated for action:  Bak  surveilled from 5/29-6/1
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=55419&relPageId=34

June 63 - Bill Bright is now SR/CI/A again, reports that HQ does not want cold street approach
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=55419&relPageId=32

juNE 13, 63, fBI DOUBLE AGENT OP WITH BAKULIN - ASSURED WE WOULDN'T INTERRUPT - AGENT
WORKS FOR AMERICAN AIRLINES - FIND OUT WHAT BARS THEY DRINK AT
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=393765

August 2, T ward memo wh/3/mexico,
Arturo Carrillo Esparza, access asset to Bakulin, who seems vulnerable
201-730511 https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=393761

jULY 63 - Bakulin running LINEB-1 again
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=17434&relPageId=2

bakulin main overt apporach is to provide prop films to interested groups - note by C/S for no cold street approach
 https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=393763
this function was taken over from Vladimir Khukhorev - who picked it up again after Bakulin's departure
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=43110&relPageId=4

Aug 16 - Bakulin stood up fbi double agent, was phys in mex during 7/18-7/23 period despite story, LIMITED Photos reveal.  ref to 201-729524 no mff match
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=515621

8/20, 201--729524 IS fbi agent
could be just incondequential story of near alcoholic
since 1957 repeat 1957 LIMITED has checked every soviet entering embassy
every day but sunday
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=55419&relPageId=22
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=47758&relPageId=2 no redactions

8/24 LINEB-1 meets with former GRU c/o bakulin again, looks sober, good meeting
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=47757&relPageId=2
 
bakulin visited LSU's olga ferrer sept 63 - was this related to a joint cia-fbi plan to recruit bakulin, may 63?  (Ferrer defected to the Sovs in 1964!)
 
 
bakulin seen talking to yatskov outside embassy oct 1
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/marysdb/showRec.do?mode=searchResult&id=713

lineb-1 met with bakulin on oct 1 in mc, still no word about philippines assignment, expects to know by oct 17
sov sympathetic about lineb-1's need for money, said he had none
lineb-1 quit working travel agent, now publicist for night club
next meeting covered by liembrace
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=33535&relPageId=2

oct 63 met with 201-729524
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=55419&relPageId=7


20 sets of reports re double agent LAROB (FBI'S AGENT) - DATED OCTOBER 11 - ASSUME THESE WERE FORWARDED
BY FBI TO HQ ON AUGUST 27
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=47756&relPageId=2

11/29/63 what should lineb-1 scheduled to meet with sov agent and other double agents be doing...
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=249355

Lineb-1 one of station's double agents - see
"Station's double agents have not had meetings with Sovs since assassination..."
See: LIJENNET-1, LINEB-1, LINILE-1, LITEASE-1, LISTEED-2.
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1576&relPageId=4
other double agents
----- ----- LISTEED-2
"...Station's double agent...LISTEED-2..."
  ----- ----- LICRAVE-1
"...Station's SOV access agents LICRAVE-1..."
  ----- ----- LICUFF-1
"...Station's SOV access agents ...LICUFF-1..."
  ----- ----- LICANNY-1
"...Station's SOV access agents... LICANNY-1..."
  ----- ----- LITEASE-1
"...Station's double agent ... LITEASE-1 has met..."


12/18/63 bakulin going to manila jan, vulnerability info, hq may wish reconsider desirability of pitching him
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=34028&relPageId=2
don't want to jeopardize lineb's viability in manila
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=34028&relPageId=3
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=28358&relPageId=3 no redactions

12/23/63 dir 90801 lineb-1 is male - will be in phil in jan
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=30922&relPageId=2
dec 63, cold approach to pitching him is recommendation , he's leaving soon
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=55419&relPageId=15

left for ussr jan 64
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=55419&relPageId=12
 
4/22/64  Ident search for Valentin Bakulin and FNU Larob 268 467
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=102733&relPageId=6

military attache sidorov, run in with him may 63, mexi 4812
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=393756
 
8/20/64  Marguerite Stevens - to the "Dottie Curtis Indices"
Valentin Bakulin looks like a double agent case
(Note:  "Dottie" was an apparent assistant to Win Scott,

12/23/66 Summary of traces.  Vera Ivanovna Bakulina wife
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=613391

 
   

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bill Simpich said:

There is yet another amazing aspect - which I have never revealed until now - a possible link between Bakulin and Robert Webster.

Bakulin's wife was Vera Ivanovna.  Webster's Russian girlfriend - who sparked his defection - was Vera Ivchenko.  

Vera Ivchenko is described by the CIA as the hot young woman that prompted Webster's defection in Oct 59.

The question has to be asked:  Was Bakulin's wife the honey trap for Robert Webster?

Bill,

I think they may be two different women.

In this link you provided,

"Bakulin's wife was Vera Ivanovna.  Webster's Russian girlfriend - who sparked his defection - was Vera Ivchenko."  

It says that

image.png.c2d37f67e896cc52fc8138fcd32fcd86.png

Whereas, the link you cited,

Vera Ivchenko is described by the CIA as the hot young woman that prompted Webster's defection in Oct 59.

image.png.2b859d9d9e02d73badf9037e75e32bca.png

 

Steve Thomas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Steve,

Yes, and I agree that someone's name is not a strong enough reed to build a definitive statement.

With that said, note that the redacted document of 10/26/59 - 104-10181-10122 - is right in the middle of the Robert Webster file.

This document does not describe the woman I believe was Webster's paramour as "Vera Ivanovny Ivcehnko" - it describes her as "Ivchenko, Vera, Ivanovna".

"Vera Ivanovna" is an exact match for the wife of Bakulin.

 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16804#relPageId=2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/14/2020 at 5:43 AM, Anthony Mugan said:

There's an impressive body of evidence concerning the quite extensive counter-intelligence operation in Mexico City in the days and weeks immediately after Oswald's visit, starting straight after the interception of the impersonation of Oswald on the telephone call on the 1st October, intercepted by the LIENVOY project. There has been some phenomenal work done on all this by a whole range of people and I am deeply indebted to the team that has put together the remarkable range of resources, such as the CIA Cryptonyms pages and the repository of documentation on the Mary Ferrell website.

In the attached paper I argue that the nature of the CI response excludes anyone connected with the wiretap operations and also excludes any reference to Cuba and Cuban operations. The reaction was very focused on Soviet operations and appears to include agents involved in an operation targeting a GRU officer, Valentin Bakulin, as a possible defection target, as well as agents involved in physical surveillance or who might have plausibly physically encountered Oswald. In the paper I suggest that, rather than the molehunt in Mexico City being based on a concern that LIENVOY was compromised, it was based on a concern that the operation targeting Bakulin had been compromised, with the blatant impersonation of Oswald telling the CIA (particularly Bill Bright who had been long aware of Oswald and was involved in the Bakulin operation) that something had gone wrong.

As always, any facts that would create a counter arguments, or any errors of fact or interpretation you may be able to point out (or for that matter other information that may add to the case) would be greatly appreciated. 

The Mexico City Molehunt_Was Oswald part of an operation targeting Bakulin.docx 33 kB · 22 downloads

I’ve tried to download this - my iPad thinks it’s not secure.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the various replies and apologies for the slow response from me (I was away over the weekend).  Glad the link to the download seems to be working now.

I'll reply approximately chronologically...

 

Steve: 

In terms of CIA interest in Bakulin, whilst an expert would no doubt be able to give a wider perspective I would think their interest would include information on GRU sources he might be aware of; GRU methods and procedures (even if only to confirm other sources) and information on personalities of other GRU / KGB / diplomatic personnel - particularly anything that might make them vulnerable in turn. The specific interest in Bakulin was to do with his potential vulnerability around his drinking and not handling LINEB-1 particularly well. I think OXBLOOD is the FBI crypt for LINEB-1 rather than Bakulin?

In terms of what was going on around the impersonation, that is perhaps the $64,000 question...At the moment I don't have a definite opinion but inclined to think it's not likely that this was done by the Soviets  due to the very odd nature of the conversations and I doubt the Soviet's would risk blowing their knowledge of LIENVOY like that if they knew about it.  My current thinking is around two hypotheses:

1.The standard interpretation is quite possible...It might be something set up to establish a link between Oswald and Kostikov that would be useful later. If (and that is an 'if' in my mind as this whole thing is deeply ambiguous) then it would need to have been set up by someone with pertinent knowledge of all the various pieces of this puzzle, (about Oswald,, that the call would be intercepted and that the link to Kostikov would become important later). The timings and to some extent content of the call indicate some knowledge of the physical visits to the Cuban consulate and Russian embassy by whoever it actually was.

2. The content of the calls are so odd they sound a bit like someone fishing for information. This second very speculative thought is that just possibly the calls were done by someone trying to figure out what Oswald was up to going to the consulate and embassy. Whilst that works OK with the subsequent focus on assets that might have seen Oswald in October, I'd have to think a bit more about how that might or might not fit in with all the rest of it. Initially it feels not quite right (why deep six the physical evidence but not the faked calls if the Agency did the calls themselves?)...There is a missing piece of this puzzle somewhere still as nothing seems to work quite right across all the evidence.

David:

Thank you...that's a very interesting document. It looks like Bakulin was testing out LINEB-1. In terms of the documentary record what is curious is that references to targeting him for defection, or preparations for that, seem to stop after 20th July. Other documentation on him continues but there isn't anything where someone senior closes down the plan to induce him to defect. On the 20th July they are looking at potential access assets (and there is the link someone has shared above to a request of Provisional Operation Approval for one the candidates for this after that date), but then...its all just information on him rather than the actual REDCAP operation. I get the feeling there are gaps in the documentary record here.

 

Larry:

Thanks. That's a very interesting point about the limited information on AEBURBLE / TUMBLEWEED....

Talk about a 'wilderness of mirrors'...!

Bill:

Thank you for your kind words...in fact I owe you a considerable debt on this one as it was in going back over State Secret and all the phenomenally detailed referencing in there that the thoughts around Bakulin began to form. Thanks for the huge amount of information. It will take me a while to look through all of that and ponder it...all very curious.

Glad the link is working now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/15/2020 at 6:19 PM, Bill Simpich said:

Steve,

Yes, and I agree that someone's name is not a strong enough reed to build a definitive statement.

With that said, note that the redacted document of 10/26/59 - 104-10181-10122 - is right in the middle of the Robert Webster file.

This document does not describe the woman I believe was Webster's paramour as "Vera Ivanovny Ivcehnko" - it describes her as "Ivchenko, Vera, Ivanovna".

"Vera Ivanovna" is an exact match for the wife of Bakulin.

 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16804#relPageId=2

Bill,

 

I did a little poking around.

In this link you provided, "Bakulin's wife was Vera Ivanovna

image.png.c2d37f67e896cc52fc8138fcd32fcd86.png

 

West, James L. Merchant Moscow: Images of Russia's Vanished Bourgeoisie. Series: Princeton Legacy Library Princeton University Press, 1998.

CHAPTER 6 Daily Life among the Morozovs

(pp. 73-82)

Karen Pennar

“My grandmother, Vera Ivanovna Morozova, was born in 1900 in Moscow, the fourth child of the wealthy prerevolutionary industrialist Ivan Vikulovich Morozov and his wife, Varvara Aleksandrovna. Her youth, like that of all children born in Russia at that time, was rocked by war and revolution. But for my grandmother and her siblings—as for many of their contemporaries in the nascent merchant class—the contrasts that marked their lives as they approached adulthood were especially stark. Over a period of a few years, the Morozov children watched their privileged daily life disintegrate, and in its place an existence marked...”

In that Webster file, there is also this:

(JFK, April 26, 2018 release).pdf

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/104-10182-10064_%28JFK%2C_April_26%2C_2018_release%29.pdf

Page 2

image.png.e58db7c8cd7f973c243af7ffd475d708.png

Compare that to:

ROUTING AND RECORD SHEET: REPORT ON VERA IVCHENKO

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16473#relPageId=3&tab=page

image.png.2435634575e8924b7520ee5efed37ceb.png

In the first document I cited, Vera Platonova is described as a married, hostess at the Hotel Ukraina, who also worked part time at the Medical Institute. Vera Plotnikova, on the other hand, was a 20 year old elevator operator who spoke poor to fair English.

 

In the document you cited, Vera Ivchencko is described a hostess at one of the restaurants in the Hotel, who lived alone with her mother.

 

Curiouser and curiouser.

One question I had:

Did the Medical Institute that Vera Platonova teach at, have any connection to Marina Oswald in her pre-Oswald days?

 

Steve Thomas

Edited by Steve Thomas
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 3:05 AM, Anthony Mugan said:

David:

Thank you...that's a very interesting document. It looks like Bakulin was testing out LINEB-1. In terms of the documentary record what is curious is that references to targeting him for defection, or preparations for that, seem to stop after 20th July. Other documentation on him continues but there isn't anything where someone senior closes down the plan to induce him to defect. On the 20th July they are looking at potential access assets (and there is the link someone has shared above to a request of Provisional Operation Approval for one the candidates for this after that date), but then...its all just information on him rather than the actual REDCAP operation. I get the feeling there are gaps in the documentary record here

Thanks Anthony - understood....  I guess I'd like to hear more peer support of our Oswald NOT having been there...  In fact, despite the stories offered - I am still not 100% convinced ANYONE was there for the Cubans/Mexicans to have reported upon... (like the ALVARADO STORY - it simply never happened...)  I'm actually sitting down now to write an update to the Mexico City trip charade...  (the actual purpose of the tapes and different correspondence is nicely addressed by you and Bill... I try to stay focused on what should be the easiest part of the charade... the trip itself...  send an imposter and leave breadcrumbs...buy a 4-part round trip bus ticket to Mexico City for example... but we get the exact opposite....

The FBI et al goes thru an awful lot to fabricate evidence of this trip...  'cept the lightest wind blows away the masking and we find each and every stop and/or section of this trip to be FUBAR in every aspect of the saying.....

------

I'm curious....   If Oswald was actually there - why do none of the contemporaneously written reports mention it?
(kinda like no one mentioning the rifle until AFTER 11/22)

We listened to the Soviet Embassy (LIENVOY), compound and the homes of many of Soviet people of interest (LIFEAT) ....  you'd think some of the soviets would say something of the crazy American barging in on a Saturday....

In the monthly reports for both these operation for the months of Sept and Oct 1963 not a single word is uttered about a "Harvey Oswald Lee; Lee, Harvey Oswald;
O. H. LEE, or any iteration there of. 

There are the contemporaneous reports dated October 8 and November 7 1963...

The Sept 27 and 28th visits would/should have been mentioned as LEADS in the October 8th Summary... it is not
The Nov 7th Summary report - which by then would have had full knowledge of who and what occurred from Sept 27 thru Oct 3rd only mentions

"a contact by an English-speaking man with the Soviet Embassy..."

The November Summary report is not dated until January 7 1964....

Here is an example of the July LIENVOY report and what happens when an English-speaker is found... (on Sept 27th the caller spoke Spanish, not English)

105-3702-216 is a report from SA FERRIS claiming that TERESA PROENZA says Oswald spoke English to her FIRST - and then she turned him over to a superior who did speak English..
FWIW - AZCUE claims the staff held morning meetings from 9-11 am....  first call is supposedly at 10:37am...

5ab2b3771f1f7_JulyLIENVOYstatusreportshowingwhattheydidwithEnglishspeakingpersons-smaller.jpg.a66e8a6e9a37bbe48e374c2384ff659c.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Thanks Anthony - understood....  I guess I'd like to hear more peer support of our Oswald NOT having been there...  In fact, despite the stories offered - I am still not 100% convinced ANYONE was there for the Cubans/Mexicans to have reported upon... (like the ALVARADO STORY - it simply never happened...)  I'm actually sitting down now to write an update to the Mexico City trip charade...  (the actual purpose of the tapes and different correspondence is nicely addressed by you and Bill... I try to stay focused on what should be the easiest part of the charade... the trip itself...  send an imposter and leave breadcrumbs...buy a 4-part round trip bus ticket to Mexico City for example... but we get the exact opposite....

The FBI et al goes thru an awful lot to fabricate evidence of this trip...  'cept the lightest wind blows away the masking and we find each and every stop and/or section of this trip to be FUBAR in every aspect of the saying.....

------

I'm curious....   If Oswald was actually there - why do none of the contemporaneously written reports mention it?
(kinda like no one mentioning the rifle until AFTER 11/22)

We listened to the Soviet Embassy (LIENVOY), compound and the homes of many of Soviet people of interest (LIFEAT) ....  you'd think some of the soviets would say something of the crazy American barging in on a Saturday....

In the monthly reports for both these operation for the months of Sept and Oct 1963 not a single word is uttered about a "Harvey Oswald Lee; Lee, Harvey Oswald;
O. H. LEE, or any iteration there of. 

There are the contemporaneous reports dated October 8 and November 7 1963...

The Sept 27 and 28th visits would/should have been mentioned as LEADS in the October 8th Summary... it is not
The Nov 7th Summary report - which by then would have had full knowledge of who and what occurred from Sept 27 thru Oct 3rd only mentions

"a contact by an English-speaking man with the Soviet Embassy..."

The November Summary report is not dated until January 7 1964....

Here is an example of the July LIENVOY report and what happens when an English-speaker is found... (on Sept 27th the caller spoke Spanish, not English)

105-3702-216 is a report from SA FERRIS claiming that TERESA PROENZA says Oswald spoke English to her FIRST - and then she turned him over to a superior who did speak English..
FWIW - AZCUE claims the staff held morning meetings from 9-11 am....  first call is supposedly at 10:37am...

5ab2b3771f1f7_JulyLIENVOYstatusreportshowingwhattheydidwithEnglishspeakingpersons-smaller.jpg.a66e8a6e9a37bbe48e374c2384ff659c.jpg

Hi David.

 

I'm very interested in reading that discussion of the alleged Oswald's trip to Mexico. The contradiction between the Odio incident and the official timeline for the trip to Mexico City is a distinct problem.

Throw in the description given by Duran and Azcue of the visitor to the Cuban consulate as 5' 6'', 125lbs, thining blond hair and mid thirties and the absence of any actual photos of Oswald, plus the definite impersonation of him on the telephone, and well...I am indeed open to persuasion that he never visited the Cuban and Russian compounds. Against that are other witness statements saying it was him and the photo on the visa application which is LHO...but an oddly old photo from 1962 (and wearing a sweater).

By 2nd October there was a full scale CI operation going on around concerns of a 'high level of penetration' and it looks like the paper trail about all this needs to be read in that sense, so perhaps not too surprising this was left out of the monthly report? As this CI reaction was triggered (it appears) from the LIENVOY intercepts and with Bill Bright involved in all that it does seem that 'Oswald' turning up in those calls was a source of worry to the Mexico City station about a breach of security in Mexico. That does make me think LHO was involved in an operation in Mexico City by the 1st October (particularly as he got a Mexico visa shortly before).

Strictly speaking it doesn't mean he had to have arrived on the official timeline...

That's why I'm very interested in a deconstruction of the evidence around the actual trip to Mexico and how solid or otherwise that might be. It's not an area I've looked at in detail before but this Bakulin thing now takes me to that next question. I hesitate to even raise this next point as I have no evidence but I just wonder about a later trip immediately after the Odio incident but in time to be around to alarm Bill Bright on the 1st October. Not sure that makes any sense either though...why would they set up things with a contradiction built in...?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Anthony Mugan said:

I'm very interested in reading that discussion of the alleged Oswald's trip to Mexico.

I tried to stay away from the CI Op you and Bill do such a great job dissecting and explaining.... by focusing on the one thing that bothered me most:

This is from the Lopez Report and I find it par for the HSCA course that they concur with a part of the WCR which takes over 1500 documents to hide the fact he didn't make the trip to Mexico City... he was elsewhere doing his FBI job.

5a0f628228e83_LopezreportstatementaboutOswaldtriptoMexico.jpg.6f6309a2b8a756f5400ae66d7010a0f9.jpg

I wrote this out a number of years ago now...  LITAMIL-9&7 evidence released in 2017 helps confirm it (doc excerpt below)...  I show - for example - that while the FBI tries Flecha Rojas and Anahuac to get Ozzie from Monterrey to Mexico City... the evidence shows plainly that their witnesses where not on the same buses as their subject.  This happens throughout the trip.
I hope the info is still applicable and helpful to you...  DJ

The Mexico City Trip

I like how they call DURAN's time with Mexican Police a "performance"...

5aba5ec7b3540_LITAMIL-9CIAassetwithinCubanEmbassyinMexicoCitysaysheneversawOswald.jpg.3ede49c0fc42566f4f755f641bd88adf.jpg1437174343_63-11-28LITAMIL-9ANDLITAMIL-7HAVENOPERSONALKNOWLEDGEOFOSWALDATCUBANEMBASSY104-10262-10355-highlighted.thumb.jpg.c69444c36b14dab882c742b8826ca492.jpg

  •  
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...