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FYI.  I'm posting this as a public service announcement for the forum.

I received a news alert today from the British Medical Journal (BMJ) advising docs that febrile patients with COVID-19 should be treated with acetaminophen (Tylenol) instead of non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) like Ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin, etc.) *

NSAIDs may worsen the course of coronavirus respiratory infections.

 

* Covid-19: ibuprofen should not be used for managing symptoms, say doctors and scientists

BMJ 2020; 368 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.m1086 (Published 17 March 2020) Cite this as: BMJ 2020;368:m1086

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Going grocery shopping is getting to be something of an adventure and an ordeal.

Had to go to three stores today and I still did not really get what I wanted.

I really wanted  one minute instant oatmeal in the large container.  Did not find it.  Had to settle for the pouch type oatmeal that is not instant.  And that was at the third store.

Two things that struck me.

First, the shelves are just as empty now as they were last week.  Does this mean the hoarders are still hoarding? I mean how big are their pantries? Or does it mean that there are more and more hoarders joining the ranks?  Whatever it is, the stores cannot keep up.

Second, half the people I saw, both customers and employees, had masks on. I guess those pictures from Italy have scared the heck out of everyone.

Anyway, I am thinking of not going to the market anymore and just ordering from home.

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

I am working from home now. 

Still finishing up the film.

Kind of suddenly it seemed to me so am I, primarily at least.   I don't know what to think.  There had been speculation that if a positive case occurred in this city of 19,000 or more especially at the university where I work this might happen.  But this afternoon they strongly urged us to work from home unless it its absolutely necessary to come in.  I may need to go in for an hour or two every other day or so.  This just feels so weird.  That's what I said to the department head I work for shortly before I left.  He said yeah it almost seems apoplectic.  I said I thought in terms of that word yesterday thinking of not Vietnam or that type of war but almost an Apocalypse Now.  He replied, you know what movie's trending now?

 https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=dustin+hoffman+outbreak&view=detail&mid=B5FD75E1C583077AC7B4B5FD75E1C583077AC7B4&FORM=VIRE

As I was leaving I told the Herpetologist who plays bass in a rock band, in the office next to mine, "Like Hendrix said, if I don't see you again in this world, I'll see you in the next one, and don't be late."

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=jimi+hendrix+voodoo+child+live&view=detail&mid=09589BFC10BA50B79ECD09589BFC10BA50B79ECD&FORM=VIRE0&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3djimi%2bhendrix%2bvoodoo%2bchild%2blive%26form%3dPRUSEN%26mkt%3den-us%26httpsmsn%3d1%26msnews%3d1%26rec_search%3d1%26refig%3d1eef8423168c43e99fefaa8a448bd032%26sp%3d-1%26pq%3djimi%2bhendrix%2bvoodoo%2bchild%2b%26sc%3d8-26%26qs%3dn%26sk%3d%26cvid%3d1eef8423168c43e99fefaa8a448bd032

This version's pretty good too.  As always full screen is best.  My laptop needs and amp and bigger speakers.

I need to find my chicken bones.

Edited by Ron Bulman
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Things are getting worse by the day here in Ontario. Everything but essential services has been shut down, including our court system.

The Canadian experts and talking heads, and prime minister are all talking about months, or maybe years before a semblance of normalcy returns. This has probably caused a new wave of hoarding.

My son has co-authored a number of papers in the UK over the past 2 weeks, 2 published in Lancet. There does not appear to be a quick fix.

Keep calm and carry on! But how?

 

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I' like to make a special request of the moderators that this topic be allowed to stay open in this locale even though it's not about JFK's Assassination per se, if it can be kept on topic.  The subject affects all members.

 https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/john_f_kennedy_490506

Suddenly that part about we all breathe the same air seems especially important.

I guess all the pubs are shut down in the UK, James, Bart?

 https://www.msn.com/en-ie/entertainment/music/let-gal-gadot-mark-ruffalo-kristen-wiig-and-more-sing-imagine-to-help-you-forget-coronavirus-video/ar-BB11oUeN 

Edited by Ron Bulman
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From my perspective it's been a bit if an over-reaction so far, but only time will tell. To be clear, if it gets really really ugly over the next few weeks, no one will remember that they started shutting stuff down before they needed to.

To explain, it was less than a week ago that I attended a retirement party for a nurse, attended by 60-70 of her co-workers, mostly nurses and orderlies. People danced, and sang, and dished food out of large trays, etc. And why shouldn't have they? There was not a SINGLE case of coronavirus in their county at that point. And now, but a week later, in my county, most everything's been shut down--no schools, no movie theaters, no dine-in restaurants, no YMCA....and this despite not one fatal case of coronavirus having been recorded in the entire county.

I mean, c'mon, people are lining up outside the markets to buy toilet paper and water...when there is NO shortage of toilet paper or water.

Not to be a jerk, but thinking outside the box is kinda like my thing. The early stats indicate that one is far more likely to get the virus from a family member than from a stranger sitting in a nearby booth at a restaurant, etc. So it seems probable that some coronavirus patients are getting sick BECAUSE they stayed home with their family, as opposed to going on with normal life. And that's not even getting into that the strain caused by throwing millions of people out of work will probably lead to a much higher crime rate--and much lower birth rate, etc.

So...the draconian measures may actually backfire...and severely injure the youngest and healthiest sector of our population, while trying to save the oldest and sickest part of our population.

 

Edited by Pat Speer
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"So...the draconian measures may actually backfire...and severely injure the youngest and healthiest sector of our population, while trying to save the oldest and sickest part of our population."

Agreed...seems like they are willing to break the system to save the most vulnerable, who would most likely suffer from normal flu and disease anyway.

Is there something else going on here?  

Here in the UK shops are also pretty bear. I'm not sure if people are still hoarding (though now can only buy 3 of each item) or if deliveries have slowed/stopped. I really don't understand why the shelves are bear if deliveries are going on as normal.

It also goes to show how the population relies on these shops to survive. If the shelves stay empty, we are pretty much stuffed....i don't even have a vegetable patch. Perhaps its time to start thinking of starting one!

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I beg to differ regarding the drastic quarantine measures.  They will save lives.

Here's an interesting public health story from 1918.

Incidentally, my father's family has owned property and businesses up in Gunnison County, Colorado since the 1880s, and I spent every summer at our family cabin up there during my childhood years.

Gunnison, Colorado: the town that dodged the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/gunnison-colorado-the-town-that-dodged-the-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic/ar-BB10AdRC

Edited by W. Niederhut
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These draconian measures will save many lives. Yes they will destroy all of our concepts of normal daily life, but for many in our "me first " world, they will be totally unacceptable. 

Look at China and Italy. The UK epidemiologists predict about 1.5 million deaths in the US without these measures. Exponential spread would be a disaster.

 

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12 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Here's another take on this.  Possibly 25.5 million infected over 8 weeks?  In California alone?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/gov-gavin-newsom-orders-all-californians-to-stay-at-home/ar-BB11qBbf

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Many have probably seen this comparison of the Spanish Flu in 1918 in Philadelphia and St. Louis.  I read a different article a few days ago that I can't find now.  This one doesn't mention that St. Louis had a parade scheduled too, they cancelled it.

https://qz.com/1816060/a-chart-of-the-1918-spanish-flu-shows-why-social-distancing-works/

The other article I read may have been this one from 3/12.  Sometimes i can read WaPo articles, sometimes I have to subscribe to do so.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/ 

Well, that didn't work.

Edited by Ron Bulman
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If you quizzed most Americans at the beginning of the Great Depression and asked them if they would rather have a 2% die-off of the mostly elderly and sick, or a depression with 10-20% unemployment which ran simultaneous with the rise of fascism, and the prospect of another World War, I suspect they would choose the die-off. My point was that in a short-term scramble to "save lives", the long-term quality of life for the young will almost certainly be damaged, and more lives (or at the very least more quality years of life) will be lost down the road than saved in the short term.

Just thinking outside the box that's been built for us. Most see "Wow, they're trying to save lives!" But they should also see, "Wow, my son can't play with any of his friends, go to school, go out to eat, go to the library, or even go to a movie, and the nice people we chat with at the book store and breakfast place are all out of work and sweatin' how they're gonna pay their next rent, and if they can't pay their next rent, they're most certainly not gonna buy the (fill in the blank) my family needs them to buy for my family to stay employed...when there's not even one case of cornavirus in our town!"

And that's another thing. All this talk of handing out money indicates they plan on giving everyone the same amount of money. This is is yet another way for the Trump Administration to screw over those who didn't vote for him and reward those who did. Think about it. 1200 bucks is two months rent in the Bible belt but 3 weeks rent in Seattle, NYC, or L.A.

P.S. I wrote about the potential rise of fascism before I even read about what's going on in Israel.

 

Edited by Pat Speer
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