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On 8/29/2020 at 6:57 PM, Robert Wheeler said:

In the meantime, the CDC says only 6% of Covid related deaths were Covid only deaths. That is, 94% of the deaths also had a co-morbidity.

Boy are people going to be pissed off when they find out the whole economic shut down was for nothing.

 

For nothing??

So what if most covid-19 deaths occur in people with co-morbidities? A lot of seniors have multiple chronic conditions and with meds live meaningful lives. I think it's disgusting that there are people who think that those lives don't matter and who won't wear a mask because there's little in it for them.

 

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3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I think it's disgusting that there are people who think that those lives don't matter and who won't wear a mask because there's little in it for them.

I think its disgusting that there are people that would exaggerate the risk of death for the majority of the population that does not have a co-morbidity.

I think its disgusting that there are people that would use the pandemic to effectively shut down the economy in the hope of scoring political points against Trump.

I think its disgusting that there are people that the Covid doubters were accused of ignoring the "science", with respect to the necessity of maintaining quarantine conditions and mask wearing, but at least two North East Governors refuse to allow businesses to open even if the current "science" says we are way past the the curve flattening phase.  

I think its disgusting that there are Governors who on March 25 would order Nursing Homes to accept Covid Patients into their Covid Free facilities and that they let the order stand even when the USN Hospital Ship arrived four weeks early in NYC providing the extra bed capacity (Javits Center and Central Park tent hospital too) to negate any reason to mix infected Covid carriers with non-Covid infected seniors with various co-morbidities.

I think its disgusting that there are people that stick their fingers in their ears whenever the consequences of social isolation on mental and physical health are discussed, including increased suicide ideation in the young, increased substance abuse, and overall lack of will to live in isolated senior populations, where the pre-covid weekly visit from the grand-kids was the only thing keeping Grandpa from checking out before he was really ready.

I think its disgusting that the peer reviewed and anecdotal and observed effectiveness of prophylactic and therapeutic use of existing and available prescriptions and over-the-counter vitamins and minerals has been censored from all MSM sources and social media platforms.

I think its disgusting there are people who have zero clue as to what they are talking about, and who only pop there head in here every few weeks, calls people disgusting. 

I think its funny that you think anyone here should take you seriously.

 

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7 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

For nothing??

So what if most covid-19 deaths occur in people with co-morbidities? A lot of seniors have multiple chronic conditions and with meds live meaningful lives. I think it's disgusting that there are people who think that those lives don't matter and who won't wear a mask because there's little in it for them.

 

Exactly Sandy, There are millions of people with preconditions (co-morbidities)who live very meaningful and satisfying lives. Wheeler's probably not even aware of that, if he is and he's callous enough to think those people should die, he should at least be honest enough to say so.
 
Wheeler said:
Boy are people going to be pissed off when they find out the whole economic shut down was for nothing.
 
Yeah, boy!  The only people who are "gonna be pissed"are already pissed, and some understandably would like to open up their businesses, then there are the "disgusted" others with nothing else to do but to rage at their computers  like moronic rabid dogs like Wheeler. They're always pissed anyway.
 
 
About wearing masks, using social distancing and bringing down the curve, this isn't that hard!
The fact is the entire death toll up to now in China with 1.4 billion people was accomplished in the last 3 days in the U.S.!

Now they know in the future they could release a virus and bring the U.S. and Latin America to it's knees!
Wow, that was easy!

The anti mask movement is akin to children staging protests that there's too much peer pressure to learn to ride a bicycle and it's JUST TOO HARD!!
Edited by Kirk Gallaway
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Excellent refutation of the Fox/Wheeler 6% meme at Salon yesterday.

Why the “6%” meme stating COVID-19 deaths are exaggerated is wrong

The right seizes on a misread CDC statement as "proof" that coronavirus isn't that deadly

https://www.salon.com/2020/08/31/the-right-has-seized-on-a-misunderstood-cdc-statement-as-proof-that-coronavirus-isnt-that-deadly/

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13 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:
The only people who are "gonna be pissed"are already pissed, and some understandably would like to open up their businesses, then there are the "disgusted" others with nothing else to do but to rage at their computers  like moronic rabid dogs like Wheeler. They're always pissed anyway.
 
About wearing masks, using social distancing and bringing down the curve, this isn't that hard!

 

You're right Kirk, it isn't hard at all to wear a mask and do social distancing.

Wheeler thinks I know nothing. What I do know is that, had Trump taken the pandemic seriously and taken the lead, and gotten most people to do those two things and limit crowd size, we could have dropped the curve to low numbers like most other developed countries have. And as a result we could have re-opened the economy earlier and not lost so many small businesses. There wouldn't have been mental health issues because people could have had social interaction earlier. (Actually I don't remember a time when we couldn't visit others as long as we wore a mask and did social distancing. But this is Utah (one of the worst hit states) and maybe it was different elsewhere.)

 

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38 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Excellent refutation of the Fox/Wheeler 6% meme at Salon yesterday.

Why the “6%” meme stating COVID-19 deaths are exaggerated is wrong

The right seizes on a misread CDC statement as "proof" that coronavirus isn't that deadly

https://www.salon.com/2020/08/31/the-right-has-seized-on-a-misunderstood-cdc-statement-as-proof-that-coronavirus-isnt-that-deadly/

 

If anybody cares:  Note that this article lists multiple ways in which the 6% figure is being misinterpretted by those on the political right. Some of it doesn't apply to Wheeler. The last six paragraphs do.

 

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3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

 

If anybody cares:  Note that this article lists multiple ways in which the 6% figure is being misinterpretted by those on the political right. Some of it doesn't apply to Wheeler. The last six paragraphs do.

 

From the article

Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding, senior fellow at the Federation of American Scientists, called the "6%" meme "a ludicrous misunderstanding and misinformation." "Basically, [they are] arguing that if you die with COVID and have any risk factors, then it somehow doesn't count as COVID," he told Salon. Feigl-Ding compared the situation to that of cancer patients, who frequently have compounding conditions that increase their risk of dying of cancer.

The quote from the Salon Article confirms you and Dr. Ding are not only "disgusting" but disingenuous as well.

Neither myself, nor others that have pointed out the significance of the 6% number, is arguing that Covid caused only 6% of the 180,000 deaths. 

The significance of the 6% number reflects the low mortality rate in populations that have low co-morbidity rates. That is, if a person or population (school aged kids for example) do not have high levels of other diseases, that the risk to that population is minimal at worst, if not significantly lower than other causes of death. Household accidents are by far the highest cause of death in the under 24 cohort.

Basically, you, Fauci, Ding and Salon invented a premise that no one is claiming. 

Is this even comprehensible to you?

If you do not have a co-morbidity then your chances of dying is so statistically insignificant the mandate to quarantine is criminal.

Not only do you not know anything, you have an extremely limited ability to comprehend what you read.

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11 hours ago, Robert Wheeler said:
16 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

If anybody cares:  Note that this article lists multiple ways in which the 6% figure is being misinterpretted by those on the political right. Some of it doesn't apply to Wheeler. The last six paragraphs do.

 

 

 

 

From the article

Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding, senior fellow at the Federation of American Scientists, called the "6%" meme "a ludicrous misunderstanding and misinformation." "Basically, [they are] arguing that if you die with COVID and have any risk factors, then it somehow doesn't count as COVID," he told Salon. Feigl-Ding compared the situation to that of cancer patients, who frequently have compounding conditions that increase their risk of dying of cancer.

The quote from the Salon Article confirms you and Dr. Ding are not only "disgusting" but disingenuous as well.

Neither myself, nor others that have pointed out the significance of the 6% number, is arguing that Covid caused only 6% of the 180,000 deaths. 

 

The whole point of my post was to point out that the paragraph you quoted (among others) does not apply to you! (It is not among the last six paragraphs of the article.)

So who is it again with the "extremely limited ability to comprehend?" LOL

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen
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5 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

 

The whole point of my post was to point out that the paragraph you quoted (among others) does not apply to you! (It is not among the last six paragraphs of the article.)

So who is it again that has "an extremely limited ability to comprehend what you read?" LOL

 

Wasting your time Sandy.

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I was surprised today traveling through the red right winged NW Texas panhandle.  The great majority of people get it in spite of their leadership.  80 - 90 % of those we encountered getting gas, going to the bathroom were wearing masks? Though there was that clerk with her mask on her chin.  Lunch to go on the road became a break with tables spaced at least 8-10 feet apart and some obviously missing.  Though this was at 2:00.  People overall seemed to be trying to social distance.  On there own, in spite of skepticism by some and limited leadership on the issue.  

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On 9/1/2020 at 10:16 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

For nothing??

So what if most covid-19 deaths occur in people with co-morbidities? A lot of seniors have multiple chronic conditions and with meds live meaningful lives. I think it's disgusting that there are people who think that those lives don't matter and who won't wear a mask because there's little in it for them.

 

I agree.

I had been waiting quite a while for the US to release the mortality stats covering the CV pandemic.

The best estimate for total CV related deaths would be the difference between the observed deaths and the expected (average) deaths over the time frame.  CV can cause death directly or indirectly by using health-care resources like ICUs.

The results are not good:

source:  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/08/12/us/covid-deaths-us.html

"Across the United States, at least 200,000 more people have died than usual since March, according to a New York Times analysis of estimates from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. This is about 60,000 higher than the number of deaths that have been directly linked to the coronavirus."

(Very good plots by region and state at link)

Additionally, I run a plot from time to time to check the US death rate per million population with some other countries for comparison.  The data is from https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus.  There is no excuse for the USA's performance.

image.png.e3c0afbc46c373196055abafc2dd9fec.png

Edited by Bill Fite
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11 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I was surprised today traveling through the red right winged NW Texas panhandle.  The great majority of people get it in spite of their leadership.  80 - 90 % of those we encountered getting gas, going to the bathroom were wearing masks? Though there was that clerk with her mask on her chin.  Lunch to go on the road became a break with tables spaced at least 8-10 feet apart and some obviously missing.  Though this was at 2:00.  People overall seemed to be trying to social distance.  On there own, in spite of skepticism by some and limited leadership on the issue.  

   My wife and I are up in Estes Park this month, and I have been pleasantly surprised to see that almost everyone is wearing a mask on the hiking trails in Rocky Mountain National Park.  One notable exception was a portly couple we crossed paths with yesterday who were both wearing TRUMP 2020 T-shirts.  I felt unusually annoyed, but resisted the temptation to make a snide remark.

     When we got up to the Alpine Center on Trail Ridge Road yesterday, we could see columns of smoke billowing from the Cameron Peak forest fire a few miles away.   Creepy.

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A best friend from my high school days ( 50 to 54 years ago!) was in town yesterday. He lives in Virginia but grew up here in this small town on the California Coast 125 miles South of San Francisco.

We talked about old times of course. And so many other things such as family, what other old friends are up to, our current lives, our similar health problems, etc.

I know that my friend is of the FOX NEWS / Trump is great persuasion and as many here know I am on the opposite side of the political spectrum. 

But throughout our yearly or semi-yearly meet ups, we have enough maturity and such a strong respectful and appreciative innocent high school bond friendship, that the subject of politics rarely comes up. We just don't go there.

However, we couldn't avoid discussing the pandemic.

And immediately my friend suggested that the actual death numbers are highly exaggerated. He repeated sound bites I have heard on FOX NEWS many times.

When I didn't respond to his claim that much of the Covid-19 story and death count is exaggerated ( except to stare down and away with obvious disagreement ) he then asked me..."be honest...have you actually known anyone who has gotten the virus?"

When I said "oh yes, my nephew and his wife" he looked surprised.

I told them they both suffered a lot but got through it apparently.

I told him my nephew was a strong believer of the Covid-19 hoax story himself "before" he was afflicted.

Now, this nephew no longer post this sentiment on his social network pages at all. This nephew is a vet like my friend, and even lives in a heavy military presence state next to my friend on the East Coast.

Right after telling my friend about my nephew, I couldn't restrain my political thoughts for a second more and half joked with him " Purvis, I kind of believe the reported death numbers from Covid."  Then to his offended silence stare...I said meekly and almost apologetically (for sake of our remarkable 54 year long friendship)   "y'all know I'm a flaming liberal...right?"

No similarly friendship appreciative answer back. Just a blank stare...or glare?

We kind of cut short our meet up at that point. The Trump subject situation has that effect.

 

Edited by Joe Bauer
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9 hours ago, Bill Fite said:

I agree.

I had been waiting quite a while for the US to release the mortality stats covering the CV pandemic.

The best estimate for total CV related deaths would be the difference between the observed deaths and the expected (average) deaths over the time frame.  CV can cause death directly or indirectly by using health-care resources like ICUs.

The results are not good:

source:  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/08/12/us/covid-deaths-us.html

"Across the United States, at least 200,000 more people have died than usual since March, according to a New York Times analysis of estimates from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. This is about 60,000 higher than the number of deaths that have been directly linked to the coronavirus."

(Very good plots by region and state at link)

Additionally, I run a plot from time to time to check the US death rate per million population with some other countries for comparison.  The data is from https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus.  There is no excuse for the USA's performance.

image.png.e3c0afbc46c373196055abafc2dd9fec.png

I agree that excess deaths is the best way to gauge the virus threat. I notice when following the links in the article that overall excess deaths in the US are about 20%. That’s not too frightening. Then it says that the only two states with no excess deaths are Hawaii and Alaska, not attached to the mainland. How does one account for that? 
What is missing from the article are the numerous reports of long term problems after recovery, such as heart ailments. I’ve seen anecdotal reports, but no overall numbers analysis. 
 

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