Shooting trajectory.

[Colm Byrne]

13 hours ago, David Andrews said:

How has this been "proven?"  Some lines drawn on a photograph, an assumption that the live oak tree was low enough in 1963, and the assertion that both TSBD windows were left sufficiently open, aren't proof.  Even given the tree and the windows, the target view would be limited to what would appear through those window frames for a few seconds. Is there even a single photo that shows that the two windows were open sufficiently to make that shot, or that someone was on that tower?

People who assert that JFK was shot from a curb level sewer opening by a man with a pistol standing underground have more evidence at this point, from anecdotal statements by John Roselli, from wound angle and trajectory, from open access to the sewer, from statements about the behavior of James Lawrence, a car salesman suspected of having been in the sewer.  Researchers have gone and stood under that sewer opening, and nobody can quite put credence in that story, yet.

What is it we're supposed to get real about?  There's been no investigation, and some of the past members who were Dallas researchers and might have taken a look into it are now departed.  Talk to an area researcher who might help you.  I don't feel comfortable mentioning names - maybe the word will spread, and someone will contact you because of your posting here.

From the Dal-Tex tower perch, the shooter might have put rounds into the floorboards or window frames and glass.  He might have hit one of the women in the car, which was not done even with the difficulties of hitting JFK from the standard sniper spots.  Nor were bystanders hit, except by debris fragments from a missed shot that struck a person in an obscure place (James Tague).

In the end, the coverup was such that no such ballistic heroics were needed.  Oswald was fingered, the FBI and Warren Report assigned all trajectories to the sixth floor window, and explained away James Tague with a single bullet theory.  What was to be gained over all the possible detriments?  The sniper's bragging rights?

You need to find the personnel support or research funding to investigate whether that shot was possible, much less if there was roof access at the Dal-Tex.  There's another thread currently that shows - just about to the point of proof - that an object once thought to be a rifle barrel protruding from a lower Dal-Tex window is actually part of the fire escape structure - and many people here put faith in that that theory.

Start writing up a book proposal or a documentary film treatment, with a proposed research budget for investigation.  Otherwise, learn who area researchers are and write to them.  The theory has built-in dramatics, and somebody may bite.

 

Thanks for this post!! It is supportive I appreciate all opinions/suggestions  this is just what the theory needs, and I personally am not out to try make money or to get my name in print, I am interested in History/Geo politics truth and justice and a few other topics. but I would be willing to help in the progression of putting this to the test, and whatever this would entail, be it in writing or on film

What I ment by lets get real about it, is that the theory is not a stupid one, it does have connections to a lot other aspects of happenings on the day, and as researchers with interest we should take it more seriously, I did see that other thread regarding the fire escape object, and as you say if that can get so many posts, then I feel this one deserves a similar approach if not more. 

I did say If the theory is proven, and we are a long way from that, at the moment, I do have military skills and was a very good shot during my service,  this would be a major factor in how I came up with the theory, when coupled with other pieces of evidence, I feel it is a very realistic scenario, although it can cause confusion to those who are not up to matters other than whats inside of the box.

James Taque could well have been hit by a bit of concrete, from one of the  bricks inside of the TSBD just to the left beside the alleged snipers nest window, maybe caused by the first shot, this also might explain the debri landing onto the guys head below on the 5th floor, would a bit of concrete travel such a distance to the underpass? I did see an old photo, where a few of these bricks were missing around the frame area of the window, but all of this additional detail might fall into place, if we can prove the theory as having a 100% possibility.

I would need considerable help to find this out, so if any researchers who are on the ground in the Dallas area, read this, please get in touch I would be delighted to discuss it.

Both yourself & Chris Bristow have  raised some very interesting avenues for further thinking/testing, I think we should just stick to the ballistics aspect of the scenario and the possibility of finding  it to being a fact, I could go on all day as to why it was so important to frame Oswald and cover up who really done it.

I wonder would sending a drone up to a level above the Daltex roof, to roughly where the water tower once stood,  and would it be able to give us the same view as the naked eye? if possible this would save a lot of bother with having to set up a scaffold platform, we might not need any access to the building at all, but the TSBD windows in question would need to be clear of all objects for the purpose, so the drone could film down onto Elm to look for X at Z313

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Colm Byrne

[David Andrews]

James Taque could well have been hit by a bit of concrete, from one of the  bricks inside of the TSBD just to the left beside the alleged snipers nest window, maybe caused by the first shot,

Is it very likely that a side-struck chip from the TSBD window area could travel at a distance and velocity comparable to a bullet and strike James Tague?

I have forgotten the most important point: You will never get the cooperation of the museum that occupies the TSBD in testing your theory, as your theory discounts both  the lone gunman myth and the sniper's nest myth.  They will not be moving those boxes for you, or opening and closing windows.  See if the City of Dallas will allow you to fly that drone.

This is absent any photo proof that the side window was open that day, or if it could be opened to the degree needed.

Without any further testing, your theory tends to act as disinformation rather than healthy speculation.  If you believe in it, you've got to put in the work, find interested researchers, and find funding.  Send the idea to producers of JFK documentaries - they may be able to use the test and the results as a segment of a documentary, though most docs tend to support the lone gunman myth.

Edited March 26, 2020 by David Andrews

[Larry Hancock]

Pictures of the Pain, page 101, windows closed, you can see the cross pieces in the lower window so they are not raised...

[David Andrews]

38 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

Pictures of the Pain, page 101, windows closed, you can see the cross pieces in the lower window so they are not raised...

Larry, can you describe the photo?  At about what time was it taken?  Is it an outdoor shot of the north side of TSBD?

[Larry Hancock]

It really would be best for all that are interested in this to get the photo itself since this is just my subjective call and the lighting is not the best on the north side...but I think is clear enough.   Really anyone interested in events in the TSBD should take advantage of all the fine photograpy in Trasks two books as well as Grodens two photo books.

In any event a broad frame shot of an officer with a pump shotgun at the corner of Elm and Houston, apparently taken from the photographers kneeling position since its upward looking. It is focused on the cornor of the building, the full side view up to the roof and the Elm street side is well lit while the Houston side is in the shade. It really only shows the corner fifth and sixth floor windows on the Houston side as another officers left shoulder covers the rest.  It is an outdoor shot, at around one pm.

I think all this series of photos were by Murray.

I'm sure there are other views of that side available, this just the first one I found in a quick look at Pictures of the Pain.

 

 

[David Andrews]

And circle gets the square...

Of course, some might argue that it's quicker to close a window and stack boxes in front of it than to assemble policemen under it.

THANKS, Larry.

Edited March 26, 2020 by David Andrews

[David Andrews]

Interesting article on how the opposite, NW corner window is blocked to the public by the museum

https://throughtheoswaldwindow.com/articles/oswald-window/

Edited March 26, 2020 by David Andrews

[Larry Hancock]

That's the one David, you found it pretty darn quick!

[Colm Byrne]

6 hours ago, David Andrews said:

And circle gets the square...

Of course, some might argue that it's quicker to close a window and stack boxes in front of it than to assemble policemen under it.

THANKS, Larry.

Thanks guys it's great to get a bit of help, with such things like finding and posting this photo, also even the slightest suggestion, can guide, to taking it to the next level

I have taken advice, as mentioned here, and have asked for permission to Dallas city for  flying a drone above the Dal Tex roof, perhaps I might not need the TSBD to get this theory verified just yet, as precise calculations probably can be taken without looking through the windows for the exact field of fire view.

The window being closed at 1pm does not change the possibility of the theory,  by the time those cops got on scene anyone could have replaced a glass pane with a couple of tacks or a bit of putty, or even closed the whole frame in a split second, as a lot of fixers were around the building laying the floors.

If I can get some filming of the area, from a height where that old tower on the roof was, then this would be a good start, initially it should not require any traffic disruption in the area, but perhaps if it went well, it could be repeated with another camera or two working together.

The project might not ever change the overall belief that Oswald fired from the alleged SN window, but it will certainly bring into disrepute the W.C testing and naming it as the only viable firing point,  it should open it up to serious debate for the future.

Thanks again to all contributors on the thread and please continue to express opinions, be they for or against the possibility of the theory.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Colm Byrne

[Chris Bristow]

12 minutes ago, Colm Byrne said:

Thanks guys it's great to get a bit of help, with such things like finding and posting this photo, also even the slightest suggestion, can guide, to taking it to the next level

I have taken advice, as mentioned here, and have asked for permission to Dallas city for  flying a drone above the Dal Tex roof, perhaps I might not need the TSBD to get this theory verified just yet, as precise calculations probably can be taken without looking through the windows for the exact field of fire view.

The window being closed at 1pm does not change the possibility of the theory,  by the time those cops got on scene anyone could have replaced a glass pane with a couple of tacks or a bit of putty, or even closed the whole frame in a split second, as a lot of fixers were around the building laying the floors.

If I can get some filming of the area, from a height where that old tower on the roof was, then this would be a good start, it might not require and traffic disruption,

You do not need a drone. If you were to stand on the X on Elm Street and at a height that matches the back of JFK's head you would have the view that you need from the other side. Then you could use binoculars or a laser.

[Colm Byrne]

41 minutes ago, Chris Bristow said:

You do not need a drone. If you were to stand on the X on Elm Street and at a height that matches the back of JFK's head you would have the view that you need from the other side. Then you could use binoculars or a laser.

Now that is a great idea, it still would be good maybe at a later stage to see it from the firing point though, I wonder would City hall have any old maps of that tower? I better cancel my requisition for now regarding the drone.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Colm Byrne

[David Andrews]

Just now, Colm Byrne said:

Now that is a great idea.

Except the museum has boxes stacked in front of that window to reproduce the 1963 photographs.

[Colm Byrne]

1 hour ago, David Andrews said:

Except the museum has boxes stacked in front of that window to reproduce the 1963 photographs.

 

 

If they refuse to move them for the test, the drone would be a 2nd option, I think only about 3 or 4 from the back pile facing the Daltex would block the lazer

They might not like the publicity, of non compliance with helping to find out if another important piece of the jigsaw is missing, which can be completed, with or without their help.

This theory still includes the alleged Oswald window, and does not deny a bullet, or bullets passing through the museums 6th floor, so they can just alter the story, according to the new found facts, and it would still exist as a tourist attraction, perhaps if the theory is proven that the firing point really was on the old tower of the Daltex roof then maybe they can build a replica of it, and put it on display in the building as well.

I.M.O General Walker trained his sniper in to take this shot, by having him practice out at his house, with firing in through the window, in a very similar fashion, to this theory, he then took a flight on 22.11.63 to have an alibi lined up.

 

https://www.tpaak.com/walker-allegations

Mr. LIEBELER. I show you a copy of a picture that has been marked as Commission Exhibit No. 1007, and ask you if you can recognize what is shown in that picture.
General WATTS. Can we go off the record a minute?
Mr. LIEBELER. Certainly.

(Discussion off the record.)
General WALKER. Yes; I can identify this picture.
Mr. LIEBELER. What is it, generally?
General WALKER. It is an outside picture taken looking into the house, taken from the west. The camera pointed east and took the house, and it shows the shot and the broken glass in the window.
Mr. LIEBELER. The window of your home?
General WALKER. The window of my home at 4011 Turtle Creek Boulevard.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is the window through which the shot was fired at you on April 10, 1963?
General WALKER. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is it possible to see your desk?
General WALKER. Yes; you can see the chair. Let's go off the record a minute.
Mr. LIEBELER. Let's stay on the record. It is all right.
General WALKER. All right, what I had mixed up, I never knew anybody got a picture of me pointing at anything, and that looks like my hand. I didn't know this photographer was outside at the time. I was thinking the picture was taken from the inside, but I see it perfectly now and it is from the outside. This looks like there is a table here, from this window, and in the corner running that way.
Mr. LIEBELER. Just inside the window?
General WALKER. Just inside the window. Then there is a space between that and the desk. Then the desk is here at an angle across this corner, and that looks like the chair. No; I ,am not sure. I did have a chair in between me and the table, which may be that chair. It is possible that you are not seeing the desk chair. There are two windows in this wall, but those are too close to be the windows. That is one of those panels, I suspect, like the flower panel. The window is still further back here.
Mr. LIEBELER. So it is not possible to see your desk from that picture?
General WALKER. That picture is taken at this angle, see.
Mr. LIEBELER. So you can't really see your desk?
General WALKER. I would say my desk is back in that corner.
Mr. LIEBELER. But it would be directly, if you stood at the window and looked straight through the window, you would be able to see your desk across the room?
General WALKER. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was your desk directly across the room from the window, or was it sitting catercornered?
General WALKER. It was sitting catercornered in the corner on the opposite side of the room. I was facing out over the desk toward the center of the room.
Mr. LIEBELER. When the shot was fired?
General WALKER. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. So that you were almost facing the window at the time the shot was fired; is that correct? Looking sideways?
General WALKER. No; I was looking to the center of the room.

Mr. LIEBELER. Sideways to the window? I am trying to drive at what kind of shot the man had at you. Was he shooting at you from the side, from the back, or from the front? I think it would be from the side.
General WALKER. More from the side than the front. Definitely from the side but a little at an angle, because I was facing the center of the room.
Mr. LIEBELER. Right. I show you a copy of a photograph that has been marked Commission Exhibit No. 1006, and ask you if this is not also a picture of the window through which the shot was fired showing where the shot had apparently hit the sash at one point?
General WALKER. That looks like the window and where the shot was fired through the window into the room. It certainly must be the same shot.
Mr. LIEBELER. It purports to be a photograph that was turned over to the Commission by the police department and it purports to be a picture of that window.
General WALKER. That is the same shot then.
Mr. LIEBELER. The bullet apparently actually hit a portion of the window frame before it went through. Does that accord with your recollection?
General WALKER. The bullet went through the screen frame. Then it went through a portion of the window frame, and a portion of the glass.
Mr. LIEBELER. I show you a copy of a photograph that has been marked Commission Exhibit No. 1009, and ask you if this is not in fact a picture of the next room.
General WALKER. To closer identify that further, the screen frame has a crosspiece in the center also, and the bullet went through the crosspiece in the screen and then hit both the window frame and the glass.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Colm Byrne

[Colm Byrne]

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/27/entertainment/bob-dylan-new-song-scli-intl/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1PwC9Fc4LtdSzim6rMexzzdHDP4rCH9An5kADbugwzSjkXJiysAr2Iygs

 

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Colm Byrne

[Chris Davidson]

I would suggest finding a good copy of the SS Recreation video from Nov/1963.

Or, maybe this is good enough.

A less desirable (quality) version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRiOTr2J9iM