Colm Byrne Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chris Davidson said: I would suggest finding a good copy of the SS Recreation video from Nov/1963. Or, maybe this is good enough. A less desirable (quality) version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRiOTr2J9iM The line on this photo is way straighter that any produced by me so far 🙂 thanks, for posting it, I wonder would the alleged 2nd shot have been possible if fired directly down from that tower, without going via the TSBD. I did watch that video of the reenactment, they were very adamant that the 6th floor alleged SN was the firing point, so how in the world am I going to be able to convince anyone of this theory, even if the shot turns out to be possible, they will just write it off as another coincidence, and even though the odds of it all lining up in reality would have massive odds stacked against it, without Greers involvement. I will keep the thread updated on progress regarding the drone etc, as I do feel it is at least worth looking into. Edited March 28, 2020 by Colm Byrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bristow Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Colm, I made a mistake when I assumed the Dallas textile building to be the same height or close to the TSB. When I used Google Earth to check the line of sight from Elm Street back to the TSB things didn't line up. What I found is although both buildings are seven stories the Dallas textile is considerably taller. So using the street view I was able to position myself 20 feet East of the frame 313 X. The Google Earth camera was 9 feet off the ground which put it's line of sight 2 ft higher then Oswald's line to JFK. My view from there was nearly identical to The View in the photo Chris Davidson posted. Adjusting for being two feet higher would mean the Dallas textile building wood drop by about 1 foot as it relates to the TSB. So Chris Davidson's photo is only a foot or two off of the exact line of sight, vertical line of sight, that you're trying to determine. So if we picture the DT building a couple feet lower in relation to the TSB that gives you the real line of sight. And it looks like the building is still about 6 to 8 feet too high 4 a shooter on the roof to be able to look through Oswald window. Unless I've made a mistake again it looks like the headshot is impossible. If I knew the height of the DT building we could determine exactly where the line of sight hits the DT building but I couldn't find that factoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 One or the other ??? http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pdf/WH17_CE_877.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bristow Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 7 hours ago, Chris Davidson said: One or the other ??? http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pdf/WH17_CE_877.pdf I guess you mean it says a hundred and two in the map and then 110 in the link. Must be the tower that makes the difference. Or they just got it wrong. People agree that relative to JFK's head Oswald was 60 feet above him. But now I'm not fully confident that each floor in the TSB is 10 feet as is generally assumed. If it's 10 ft per floor on a 4-foot base and the TD building is 102 feet , then the theory is dead. if the floors were 12 feet it would still miss the lineup by a couple feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colm Byrne Posted March 30, 2020 Author Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chris Bristow said: I guess you mean it says a hundred and two in the map and then 110 in the link. Must be the tower that makes the difference. Or they just got it wrong. People agree that relative to JFK's head Oswald was 60 feet above him. But now I'm not fully confident that each floor in the TSB is 10 feet as is generally assumed. If it's 10 ft per floor on a 4-foot base and the TD building is 102 feet , then the theory is dead. if the floors were 12 feet it would still miss the lineup by a couple feet. I can't thank you guys enough for taking the time to read into this theory, it sure will save me a lot of time, effort, and money, if the possibility can be fully determined before moving onto the next stages, of actual on site visits To the eye it looks very possible at least for the 2nd & 3rd shots, and even from this photo of an area model, with the roof water tower omitted, but I suppose without going up there we are not going to be accurate to exact precision. If field of view is only out by 2 feet, in these off site judgments then perhaps taking the real on site calculations might be worth the shot. What are your opinions on me taking this chance please? does the line of fire seem to be off? and if it is indeed a possibility, we then only have another massive coincidence, in a case already full of them, but this said it would in actual fact contradict the official findings of the alleged 6th floor window as being the only scenario for the trajectories . Edited March 30, 2020 by Colm Byrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bristow Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 41 minutes ago, Colm Byrne said: I can't thank you guys enough for taking the time to read into this theory, it sure will save me a lot of time, effort, and money, if the possibility can be fully determined before moving onto the next stages, of actual on site visits To the eye it looks very possible at least for the 2nd & 3rd shots, and even from this photo of an area model, with the roof water tower omitted, but I suppose without going up there we are not going to be accurate to exact precision. If field of view is only out by 2 feet, in these off site judgments then perhaps taking the real on site calculations might be worth the shot. What are your opinions on me taking this chance please? does the line of fire seem to be off? and if it is indeed a possibility, we then only have another massive coincidence, in a case already full of them, but this said it would in actual fact contradict the official findings of the alleged 6th floor window as being the only scenario for the trajectories . When I say the field of view is off by 2 feet I mean the DT appears two feet higher than the actual line of sight would show . So you can take the photo and imagine what it would look like. Now that is not two feet of height relative to the TSB that is two feet of the DT which being farther away appears smaller, so two feet is not much at all . The DT building would need to drop more like 10 feet to have the roof line up with the LOWER part of the snipers window. The top of the DT would have to line up with the open part of Oswald's window. There is no wiggle room left because we know fairly well the location and height of the Google earth camera which duplicates the B&L image Chris Davidson posted. Even considering the tolerances the shot is just not going to line up. If you could get someone to crouch down at JFK's head height while standing on the X on Elm and photograph the TSB you would have absolute final proof of the trajectory. However the since the camera height is shown in Google Earth and is consistently 9 feet above the ground in all street view images the only variable left is how many feet back from the X the google camera sat. From the street you can can compare your location with the lane markers to within a couple feet then you get out of street view and measure the lane marker from above. But even being 2 feet off would only change the DT buildings appearance by roughly 4 inches. It looks like it is case closed on this theory, I see no way to make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colm Byrne Posted March 31, 2020 Author Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chris Bristow said: When I say the field of view is off by 2 feet I mean the DT appears two feet higher than the actual line of sight would show . So you can take the photo and imagine what it would look like. Now that is not two feet of height relative to the TSB that is two feet of the DT which being farther away appears smaller, so two feet is not much at all . The DT building would need to drop more like 10 feet to have the roof line up with the LOWER part of the snipers window. The top of the DT would have to line up with the open part of Oswald's window. There is no wiggle room left because we know fairly well the location and height of the Google earth camera which duplicates the B&L image Chris Davidson posted. Even considering the tolerances the shot is just not going to line up. If you could get someone to crouch down at JFK's head height while standing on the X on Elm and photograph the TSB you would have absolute final proof of the trajectory. However the since the camera height is shown in Google Earth and is consistently 9 feet above the ground in all street view images the only variable left is how many feet back from the X the google camera sat. From the street you can can compare your location with the lane markers to within a couple feet then you get out of street view and measure the lane marker from above. But even being 2 feet off would only change the DT buildings appearance by roughly 4 inches. It looks like it is case closed on this theory, I see no way to make it work. Thanks again Chris it is confusing enough trying to figure out where we are in this without any accurate diagram, although I can not say how precise this is but when you look at this make up of the elevated view from the DT down onto the TSBD, it sure does look like the trajectory is very close. Can you calculate if possible does any firing point down on the lower floors in the DT have a view onto Elm through the TSBD windows? If we dropped down ten feet we would be on the 7th floor of the DT, which according to my calculations would be roughly in a level position with the 6th floor of the TSBD Key to this theory would be knowing the measurements of the tower structure which once stood on the roof of the DT. I still feel it is very possible and workable, with Greers help, along with a lookout or two in the TSBD, to move a few items around, make hand signals through the window facing the DT or radio communication , it would explain what the witnesses on the 5th experienced as well. the bullets were practically passing through the building Edited March 31, 2020 by Colm Byrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bristow Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 The DT only has 3 columns of windows and none are lined up with the window. All are visible to the right of the TSB. Even if the photo is off by a couple of feet it does not even come close to lining the roof up with the 6th floor window. I would not spend any more time on this cause it just does not add up. If I were you I would drop it and find another interesting CT to explore. We have all had theories we liked that got shot down. Most theories do not pan out so we do more eliminating of theories than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colm Byrne Posted March 31, 2020 Author Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Chris Bristow said: The DT only has 3 columns of windows and none are lined up with the window. All are visible to the right of the TSB. Even if the photo is off by a couple of feet it does not even come close to lining the roof up with the 6th floor window. I would not spend any more time on this cause it just does not add up. If I were you I would drop it and find another interesting CT to explore. We have all had theories we liked that got shot down. Most theories do not pan out so we do more eliminating of theories than anything else. This is a view any sniper would have from the top right window, of the Dal-tex Oswalds window has a portion visible through it, and while any shot onto Elm street where the limo was at Z313 is not possible, I still feel that it is worth checking what view would be available from the roof which has still a good few feet for manoeuvre. If after an on site inspection, and it don't line up, the theory is debunked, then I will have no choice other than to let it slide. Edited March 31, 2020 by Colm Byrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) Is that the Sixth Floor Museum's model of Dealey Plaza? When was that created? It seems to omit the Dal-Tex tower, as far as I can see. Mark Lane, in his presentations refuting the Warren Report, also used a 3-D scale model of Dealey Plaza. You might want to search for a large photo of that to check any comparison value. From the color photo of the model provided above, I'd venture that the roof would do better than the tower, and only for shots two and three (out of those postulated for the theory that the model represents). If this trick shot were actually possible and did happen, of course. Edited March 31, 2020 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colm Byrne Posted March 31, 2020 Author Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 hour ago, David Andrews said: Is that the Sixth Floor Museum's model of Dealey Plaza? When was that created? It seems to omit the Dal-Tex tower, as far as I can see. Mark Lane, in his presentations refuting the Warren Report, also used a 3-D scale model of Dealey Plaza. You might want to search for a large photo of that to check any comparison value. From the color photo of the model provided above, I'd venture that the roof would do better than the tower, and only for shots two and three (out of those postulated for the theory that the model represents). If this trick shot were actually possible and did happen, of course. Hello David Thanks again for your further input, it is a theory very well worth pursuing until it is either proven as a possibility or debunked as a complete no no, the lack of a muzzle flash and the ear witness total confusion to the sound of the gunfire, show that the alleged SN was not the firing point, then if we add the need for the real shooters to escape and frame Oswald at the same time, a lot seems to fit together, when considering this scenario Shooting from the Dal-Tex roof or tower above it certainly does seem to line up to my eye, I do however think the water tower would have been the firing point of choice, due to the need for cover to hide the shooter from any overhead obstacles which might have had SS agents looking down on it from the air or from any taller building in the distance. Here is a link about the 3-D scale model I am not sure when it was created but it looks like was made by the F.B.I and is now held in the TSBD museum, and yes it is strange for them to leave an important piece of landscape out of it, ie the tower on the Dal-Tex roof perhaps they were trying to hide it out of the picture, and this might also be the reason why the structure was removed from the roof in real life as well, it would be interesting to know was the tower removed before the model was created. https://www.cnet.com/pictures/in-dallas-jkfs-memory-still-haunts-pictures/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Colm Byrne said: Hello David Thanks again for your further input, it is a theory very well worth pursuing until it is either proven as a possibility or debunked as a complete no no, the lack of a muzzle flash and the ear witness total confusion to the sound of the gunfire, show that the alleged SN was not the firing point, then if we add the need for the real shooters to escape and frame Oswald at the same time, a lot seems to fit together, when considering this scenario Shooting from the Dal-Tex roof or tower above it certainly does seem to line up to my eye, I do however think the water tower would have been the firing point of choice, due to the need for cover to hide the shooter from any overhead obstacles which might have had SS agents looking down on it from the air or from any taller building in the distance. Well, you asked for an opinion on the sightlines using the model, and the tower seems less likely than the roof to me, and the roof only for shots 2 and 3. I used a ruler. You should apply for the proper permissions and go to Dallas. Edited March 31, 2020 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colm Byrne Posted March 31, 2020 Author Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, David Andrews said: Well, you asked for an opinion on the sightlines using the model, and the tower seems less likely than the roof to me, and the roof only for shots 2 and 3. I used a ruler. You should apply for the proper permissions and go to Dallas. This large photo of the area, looks to be roughly from a similar view on the scale model, it might be easier to line up for a possibility, the tower does look like it was a massive enough addition to the height on the roof, I think it was a clear view right down through the TSBD onto Elm from both it and the roof, but I do tend to side with you about the roof being a good vantage point, judging by this close up of the SN window the roof does look to be perfect, and almost within arms reach from the the far side. I have applied for permission to get the ball rolling on at least flying a drone up, and over the same trajectory on this theory. I would be expecting a lot of obstacles, because I can hardly see those in charge wanting anyone coming over and challenging their conclusion again All I might be able to prove is that their investigation into the alleged firing at Oswalds window might not have came from there but simply passed through it instead. Everything else stays the same, the medical evidence etc, due to the same line of fire, except now something else exists which suggest the accused might not have even heard the shots It is going to be tricky trick shot to uncover, but if the bullet paths line up, others can take it from there, and fill in the other minor details. Edited March 31, 2020 by Colm Byrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colm Byrne Posted April 6, 2020 Author Share Posted April 6, 2020 (edited) The tower which was on the Dal-Tex roof during the shooting was quite a big structure, which would have allowed a perfect covered elevation, for any would be assassins to see directly through the TSBD. I wonder was the interior ever photographed or would drawings of it, be available anywhere? It beggars belief why it was not included in the 3D model made by the F.B.I, considering it was more or less the highest platform in the area at the time. Having the exact measurement of it's height etc would be most useful in helping to check this theory out to the best standard, as the drone would need to fly and record the exact view which would have been available from up there, or if a scaffold is to be erected it would need to replicate it in detail as well Edited April 6, 2020 by Colm Byrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colm Byrne Posted May 3, 2020 Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 This photo might help you understand it a bit more. J.F.K's head is marked by the red dot, roughly just after the 100 point on the ruler the 6th floor window is the yellow circle at just before the 155 point and the tower in the blue was positioned roughly at the 165 mark. The trajectory for the Tower location and the 6th floor window are both the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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