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Bob Dylan song about JFK assassination


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12 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

LOL.  Weberman would have been the perfect patsy... 🤥

 

LOL right. Everyone would have believed it. 

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On 4/13/2021 at 6:33 PM, Richard Booth said:

He would have been shot, and A.J. Weberman would have been setup as the patsy for his murder. "Crazed fan shoots Dylan" ...

Weberman does qualify in the Lone Nut category as well.

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3 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Weberman does qualify in the Lone Nut category as well.

I kind of like him. He is a real character. 

 

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That's really funny Richard. i like those phone calls.

Hey Pam, I tried to PM you.

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4 hours ago, Richard Booth said:

I kind of like him. He is a real character. 

 

To say he's a character is an understatement.  Plus he screwed me out of 20 bucks.  Con man.

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5 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

LOL.  Weberman would have been the perfect patsy... 🤥

As for the subject of rockers who may have contracted with Operation Mockingbird in the U.S., any likely candidates?

As an amateur Dylanologist, I would rank Bob Dylan last on the list of likely candidates, along with well known anti-Vietnam War rockers like Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young.

Was there ever a more profound take down of the U.S. military-industrial complex than Dylan's May 1963 Masters of War?

 

I don't know about a profound takedown, different genre, but Black Sabbaths War Pigs is pretty straight forward.  Generals gathered in their masses, just like witches at black masses.

 

Edited by Ron Bulman
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37 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

To say he's a character is an understatement.  Plus he screwed me out of 20 bucks.  Con man.

That's not cool. No bueno.

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17 hours ago, Richard Booth said:

That's not cool. No bueno.

I knew noting about Dylan-Weberman-Garbology when several years back I read about a new book coming out called The Oswald Code.  By the coauthor of Coup D Etat in America, which I had/have and thought it kind of revolutionary for the time of it's first publication (1975).  

So I googled the book and Weberman, finding his site featuring it.  I was skeptical about his "findings" from Oswald's diary.  I wondered about his Gary Hemming interviews as I'd read others views questioning Hemmings veracity.

But the website had information about two sets of tramps being arrested that intrigued me.  About a first set arrested about a half hour after the assassination.  Then about Bowers finally allowed to release trains from the yard about 2:00 or a little after.  One had crossed south over the triple underpass and Bowers saw a man, two or three rush up the embankment and climb into a grain car.  He stopped the train and radioed this to the dispatcher who called police back.  By the time he got the train stopped the car he specified was several hundred yards down the track getting close to the Union Station (near where Reunion tower is today).  Officers took off on foot from his tower and police cars went down a road between the Post Office and Union Station.  The officers rousted three "hobos" out and marched them back through Dealy Plaza.  The shadows in the famous hobo pictures supposedly matched the timing of this 2:00-3:00.  A cop whose name I'd read before grumbling about the long hike down the tracks and back. 

Bowers statement was supposed to be from a DPD report.  The arrest info from officers reports.  More documentation.  See even more information and documentation in the book! 

I was hooked.  Maybe I could verify the documents through other sources. 

The first key when I opened the book was no table of contents.  Then as I flipped through it no chapter on hobo arrests.  No page notes.  No chapter notes. No end notes. No index or bibliography.  No documents.  Nothing.

Reading through the rambling mess of mumbo jumbo mainly about what he read into Oswald's diary I found one part about this later arrest of hobos.  Hemming telling Weberman yeah that was Sturgis and --- and ---.  Then elaborating on all he knew about grain cars from riding the rails in his youth or some such horseshit.

Not only was the book useless and worthless but it pissed me off.  I went back to the website.  The story and limited documentation were gone.  Wish I'd printed it.  But why bother, I was ordering the book?

Later I learned of his creation of garbology and thought what an appropriate term for his work.

This has been discussed elsewhere on the site before.  I remember others disagreeing with me that maybe Weberman deserved the few punches from Dylan if he was scaring his wife and kids.  Especially if he'd been warned previously.

I still have the book in the bottom of a box to be disposed of.  Then held back for use if necessary in the covid toilet paper shortage.  I could no longer find it on amazon, guess that makes it a collectable.  $50 and it's yours, I'll pay the shipping (US only).  Anybody?

Edited by Ron Bulman
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40 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

I knew noting about Dylan-Weberman-Garbology when several years back I read about a new book coming out called The Oswald Code.  By the coauthor of Coup D Etat in America, which I had/have and thought it kind of revolutionary for the time of it's first publication (1975).  

So I googled the book and Weberman, finding his site featuring it.  I was skeptical about his "findings" from Oswald's diary.  I wondered about his Gary Hemming interviews as I'd read others views questioning Hemmings veracity.

But the website had information about two sets of tramps being arrested that intrigued me.  About a first set arrested about a half hour after the assassination.  Then about Bowers finally allowed to release trains from the yard about 2:00 or a little after.  One had crossed south over the triple underpass and Bowers saw a man, two or three rush up the embankment and climb into a grain car.  He stopped the train and radioed this to the dispatcher who called police back.  By the time he got the train stopped the car he specified was several hundred yards down the track getting close to the Union Station (near where Reunion tower is today).  Officers took off on foot from his tower and police cars went down a road between the Post Office and Union Station.  The officers rousted three "hobos" out and marched them back through Dealy Plaza.  The shadows in the famous hobo pictures supposedly matched the timing of this 2:00-3:00.  A cop whose name I'd read before grumbling about the long hike down the tracks and back. 

Bowers statement was supposed to be from a DPD report.  The arrest info from officers reports.  More documentation.  See even more information and documentation in the book! 

I was hooked.  Maybe I could verify the documents through other sources. 

The first key when I opened the book was no table of contents.  Then as I flipped through it no chapter on hobo arrests.  No page notes.  No chapter notes. No end notes. No index or bibliography.  No documents.  Nothing.

Reading through the rambling mess of mumbo jumbo mainly about what he read into Oswald's diary I found one part about this later arrest of hobos.  Hemming telling Weberman yeah that was Sturgis and --- and ---.  Then elaborating on all he knew about grain cars from riding the rails in his youth or some such horseshit.

Not only was the book useless and worthless but it pissed me off.  I went back to the website.  The story and limited documentation were gone.  Wish I'd printed it.  But why bother, I was ordering the book?

Later I learned of his creation of garbology and thought what an appropriate term for his work.

This has been discussed elsewhere on the site before.  I remember others disagreeing with me that maybe Weberman deserved the few punches from Dylan if he was scaring his wife and kids.  Especially if he'd been warned previously.

I still have the book in the bottom of a box to be disposed of.  Then held back for use if necessary in the covid toilet paper shortage.  I could no longer find it on amazon, guess that makes it a collectable.  $50 and it's yours, I'll pay the shipping (US only).  Anybody?

I also believe The Oswald Code is useless.

Coup d'etat in America, however, is another story. A groundbreaking book. While I disagree with the central thesis that the tramps are Hunt, Sturgis and Christ, I believe the book has otherwise important information in it such as the significance of the Harlandale safe house, and the fact that the man on the grassy knoll showing Secret Service ID was ID'd by Seymour Weitzman as Bernard Barker. That book also had a good deal of good documentation in it.  

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1 hour ago, Richard Booth said:

I also believe The Oswald Code is useless.

Coup d'etat in America, however, is another story. A groundbreaking book. While I disagree with the central thesis that the tramps are Hunt, Sturgis and Christ, I believe the book has otherwise important information in it such as the significance of the Harlandale safe house, and the fact that the man on the grassy knoll showing Secret Service ID was ID'd by Seymour Weitzman as Bernard Barker. That book also had a good deal of good documentation in it.  

You confused me, not you but what I found.  I'd forgotten about DPD officer Weitzman ID'ing Watergate burglar Bernard Barker on the Grassy Knoll.   A pretty incredible fact itself.  Kind of gives meaning to that  "whole Bay of Pigs thing".  But I'd never really connected that with finding the Mauser in the TSBD with Roger Craig.

The Warren Omission got him to change the latter and ignored the first.

The part that does confuse me is his forum bio.

Seymour Weitzman (spartacus-educational.com)

The graduated engineer, shot down in WWII, a Japanese POW, was manager for Holly's Dress Shops for 15 years.

First.  Holly's Dress Shop's rings a bell for some reason.  Affiliated with Zapruder's dress making firm in the Dal-Tex building?  Did I maybe read something about this years ago?  Anybody?

Second.  I thought Wietzman, the engineer, he, his family owned and operated a sporting goods store, which included gun sales.  I.E. he was more familiar with rifles than most other cops.

Picking out Bernard Barker and a Mauser.  Astute observations by a conscientious man?

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2 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

The Warren Omission got him to change the latter and ignored the first.

 

Well, it should be noted here that Weitzman made the ID many years later. He never ID'd Barker to the WC, or even said his name, nor was shown photos. He merely testified that a man presently secret service credentials was there.

It was only after Canfield and Weberman showed Weitzman a photo spread that Weitzman ID'd Barker. It's a pretty shocking, and if true, explosive revelation. 

We have to view it with some skepticism, I suppose, given the ID was for a guy that Weitzman saw for less than a minute ten years before. I know that if I saw a guy for less than a minute it would be difficult to ID him, especially after ten years.

However, it's interesting...

As for the Mauser, you are correct about Weitzman having owned a sporting goods store and being an engineer. The Mauser subject is really frustrating--always has been--and I don't know what to make of it. It's a real head scratcher. If there were a conspiracy--and I believe there was--then wouldn't the people involved in that conspiracy not make such a sloppy mistake as leaving the wrong kind of weapon in the building to be found? We are to believe they left a Mauser in there and then later did some kind of switch, replacing it with a 6.5 Carcano?  Right under the nose of the DPD?  Even if they had people inside the DPD (and I think they did) that's a tall proposition, hard to reconcile. You see why then the issue is so frustrating. 

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1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

This old tread is interesting.  Weitzman was committed to a mental institution, like Nagell?  

Seymour Weitzman - JFK Assassination Debate - The Education Forum (ipbhost.com)

I wasn't aware of that -- though I do not think that a person receiving treatment for psychological problems means their eyesight is bad or they're necessarily a xxxx. 

It certainly doesn't look good for his credibility. However, in my view I look at this hypothetical scenario: five people observe a robbery take place. All five people identify the robbery. One of those five witnesses was once a mental patient. Does that mean the robber can't be identified, or that it didn't happen?  Food for thought.

Then there is this:

"Weitzman's mental problems, which appear to stem from acute paranoia about his experiences related to the assassination of JFK"

Can't say that I blame the guy -- you're the one guy who interacts with a man on the grassy knoll who has secret service credentials, and then you watch as the Warren Commission tells you that there were no Secret Service agents on the gnoll and that Oswald did it. That's gotta really weigh on a guy. Would kind of make you question your sanity, and reports of witness deaths would make a person a bit paranoid if you're the guy who may have seen and interacted with one of the conspirators...

Edited by Richard Booth
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It's interesting to me that his acute paranoia stems from the JFKA to the point he has to be institutionalized.

Who was he paranoid about.  Were his fears justified or irrational?  Was he being imprisoned to shut him up?

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17 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

It's interesting to me that his acute paranoia stems from the JFKA to the point he has to be institutionalized.

Who was he paranoid about.  Were his fears justified or irrational?  Was he being imprisoned to shut him up?

Weitzman claims that he had to chase a couple Cubans out of his house at gunpoint. Sounds similar to some of the stuff that Roger Craig experienced. 

Beyond that, I can only speculate. Perhaps he was fearful because he testified that he ran to the grassy knoll because that is where the shots came from but the authorities were saying the shots came from the TSBD. Perhaps, too, he was fearful because he learned in 1964 when the WC report came out that what the authorities were saying about that day just didn't jibe with what he heard that day.

If I were a witness to an event and saw a few things that didn't jibe with the official story to such an extent that I realize the official story is in fact a lie, I would probably feel a little uneasy about it.

Perhaps, too, he DID observe a 7.65 Mauser with a 2.5x Weaver scope on it, and then watched as that turned into a 6.5 Manlicher-Carcano with a 4x scope. If THIS is the truth, he would find himself in an episode of the Twilight Zone--he would absolutely have reason to be fearful if he knew for a fact the weapon found was a Mauser, he writes out an affidavit that says that, and then he watches as that changes, informing him pretty much immediately that there was a conspiracy.

I suspect that he had some justifiable paranoia. 

Edited by Richard Booth
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