W. Niederhut Posted June 6, 2021 Share Posted June 6, 2021 12 hours ago, Robert Burrows said: “Bob is not authentic at all. He’s a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception.” -Joni Mitchell https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/joni-mitchell-bob-dylan-fake-plagiarist-comments-feud/?amp Weird stuff. And it sounds like Mitchell has been confused and ambivalent about her own criticisms of Dylan. Fake voice? Huh? That's simply absurd. Was there a more original voice in the 60s than Bob Dylan's? Plagiarism? Only in the sense that Dylan incorporated a lot of folklore into his own lyricism-- especially beginning with the Love and Theft album in 2001. Obviously, Joni Mitchell has some deep-rooted anger at Dylan. He must have offended her in some way. I noticed in Scorcese' Rolling Thunder film that Dylan looked bored and aloof when Mitchell was trying to teach the band her Hejira songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted June 6, 2021 Share Posted June 6, 2021 Kirk, I just read your post after writing mine (above.) Were you at Joni Mitchell's Santa Barbara Bowl Hejira concert with Pat Metheny and Jaco Pastorius? I've listened to that concert a score of times on the Shadows and Light DVD. I saw her a few years later at the Red Rocks Amphitheater, but she wasn't touring with Metheny and Lyle Mays at that point. (I think Jaco was deceased by that time.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Burrows Posted June 6, 2021 Share Posted June 6, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said: That's a good link, Bob. She certainly is mean spirited. That video clip of Joni doing "Coyote" is great! Notice the scowl on Dylan's face. It's because he's way over his head and he's just sort strumming the root chord senselessly. Up to that point, I know I'd never heard Dylan in an open tuning so he's sort of up sh-t creek without a paddle in that video. But in the interview, when she's given the opportunity to redeem herself for her attack, she says : Musically, Dylan’s not very gifted.---That's actually true. But Dylan followers don't rave about Dylan for his musicality, but for his lyrics and poetry. A lot of the early Dylan melodies in the 60's were actually articulated in the public mind much better by the people/ groups that covered Dylan songs. He’s borrowed his voice from old hillbillies.He’s got a lot of borrowed things. Maybe not sensitively said, but that's undoubtedly true. He’s not a great guitar player. She actually understates it. At least up to that point when the video was made. Dylan was a mid level coffee house guitar player, and he'd been at it for a good part of 20 years! heh heh He’s invented a character to deliver his songs … it’s a mask of sorts.” That doesn't sound very kind, does it? But when you consider Joni Mitchell's music style was similar to Neil Young. Sort of a revealing, vulnerable catharsis. To her Dylan comes off as a guy whose afraid to get very real or personal, which is sort of true, but solely from her viewpoint. Most people don't get into the weeds about musicianship and musicality. I saw the Joni Mitchell "Hejira' concert, with no less than Pat Metheny and Jaco Patorius backing her up! I'll take that to a Dylan concert any day and know a minority of people who would but that's me. As Dennis said. She at least did have Morgellon's disease. And at one point, she would swear that tiny mites were crawling under her skin. So to partisans, some may say Dylan's not so penetrative approach won out! When I listen to Dylan's guitar playing on the outakes from the Blood On The Tracks Bootleg Series and on the two acoustic albums of the mid 90's I think that he's an excellent guitarist. Dylan even appeared at the Guitar Hero's Festival in Saville, Spain, in 1991 along with Richard Thompson. Edited June 6, 2021 by Robert Burrows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted June 6, 2021 Share Posted June 6, 2021 (edited) W: No Winterland SF. Jaco did die a year later, I believe.. The important thing is the reason for Dylan's God awful scowl in Robert's video is because he'd never done any open tunings and was just lost and didn't like being upstaged. For a long time, Dylan was not really that generous with other musicians. He sort of had his own little island. I actually have a story, hobnobbing with stars. I've seen clips of Joan Baez trying to harmonize with Dylan on his songs and Dylan just kept spontaneously changing his phrasing, making it impossible for her, and it sounded terrible.. I've done a lot of harmonizing and I thought it was really unprofessional. Then wouldn't you know it, a week later the power goes out on Sunday Night and I decide to go to a local bar where the power hadn't gone out and who was there but Joan Baez sitting alone. So I was standing talking to her in her seat, we talked about some local things. I told her I was also into music. At one point I said to her, "Boy singing with Dylan must be a real pain the ass, always deliberately changing his phrasing'. She didn't say anything, but I sensed I struck a chord with her. It was a few years later when I read the first piece I ever read where she was critical of Dylan. And she remarked about how tough he was to sing with at times. I'm finished. I think I'm going to end up pissing off some people here. Edited June 6, 2021 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 On 6/5/2021 at 5:24 PM, Dennis Berube said: I've read some analyses that make a case for his career being "guided" so to speak. From my standpoint at this time it looks like Bob Dylan's career is starting to have the earmarks of a psy op... "Guided" is an appropriate word. Also 'scripted'. The myth put out about him is intended to cover up what is really going on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Guitars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Burrows Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 6 hours ago, Ron Bulman said: Guitars? Admittedly, that's pretty painful to hear, but in Dylan's defense, it has to be difficult to perform well when you find yourself saddled with two drunken Rolling Stones and a big band backstage practicing "We Are The World"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Burrows Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 8 hours ago, Pamela Brown said: From my standpoint at this time it looks like Bob Dylan's career is starting to have the earmarks of a psy op... "Guided" is an appropriate word. Also 'scripted'. The myth put out about him is intended to cover up what is really going on... Please elucidate. 8 hours ago, Pamela Brown said: From my standpoint at this time it looks like Bob Dylan's career is starting to have the earmarks of a psy op... "Guided" is an appropriate word. Also 'scripted'. The myth put out about him is intended to cover up what is really going on... Please elucidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Berube Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 On 6/6/2021 at 12:38 PM, Kirk Gallaway said: I've seen clips of Joan Baez trying to harmonize with Dylan on his songs and Dylan just kept spontaneously changing his phrasing, making it impossible for her, and it sounded terrible.. I've done a lot of harmonizing and I thought it was really unprofessional. Same story when he toured with the Grateful Dead. According to ex-Dead band members, Dylan wanted to be a permanent part of the Grateful Dead and they voted on it. Apparently, everyone said yes except bassist Phil Lesh because he rightly figured it would be Dylan and the Dead and their own thing would've never been the same. If you listen to the album they made out of that tour, it is fairly evident Dylan was all over the place. Bob Weir said Dylan would start a song they rehearsed in a different key without saying anything. Imagine that in front of 30,000 people!? Most of his songs are diatonic and easy for most musicians to change on the fly, but there's just no good reason why anyone would do that without at least telling the band what new key you want before you count it off, ridiculous. I also have some recordings of some of their 1987 rehearsals, very interesting to a musician type. Boy those days (types of "rehearsals") are long gone for any band thats playing stadiums I imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) On 6/7/2021 at 5:20 AM, Robert Burrows said: Please elucidate. Try this... https://theothermozart.wordpress.com/2021/06/01/the-bob-dylan-connection-looks-like-its-all-about-the-stones/ Edited June 9, 2021 by Pamela Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) LOVE THAT BOB! In 1966, there were a bunch of whiny Parisians who started complaining because Dylan took 5 minutes to tune his guitar...and counting! Dylan replied by cleverly insulting them. I think we can all agree- It serves them right!!! heh heh Dennis: I had heard he wanted to join the Dead, but I never heard that comment from Bob Weir---interesting! Also interesting about Lesh drawing the line on the Dylan addition. I do remember one time, when I think about it, it may have been a New Years weekend show in the 70's when Grace Slick unexpectedly came on stage drunk and took the mic I guess expecting to sing with the Dead. The Dead seemed surprised, but were kind of smiling, except for Phil Lesh who was pacing nervously behind her and resented the interruption. My friend told me he flipped her off behind her back as she was babbling on, but I didn't see that.. Then Bill Graham walks out on stage and puts his arm around her and dances with her as the Dead improvised a Waltz and he danced her offstage and they cleverly got rid of her. Edited June 8, 2021 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Burrows Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 (edited) Medgar Evers was assassinated 58 years ago today. This song was true then, and it's true today... Edited June 12, 2021 by Robert Burrows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 To give you an interesting story of Dylan's evolution in trying to translate his vision to professional musicians (the Band) and his conversion to electric music and the resulting conflict with the folk purists, we have an interview with Robbie Robertson. But if that isn't enough. Robertson, accounts meeting Jack Ruby in Fort Worth! It starts around 15:00, where he accounts a very weird gig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) I am starting to think Murder Most Foul may be just the tip of the iceberg of Bob Dylan's connection to the assassination of JFK. It is starting to look like he has also been obtaining tracking information about my wherabouts and performances and possibly even an unpublished episode of a manuscript of mine called Titan, via my now completely estranged sister Angel. I hope everyone will keep an open mind as this moves forward. I'll be posting soon about it all on my blog Dylagence. This may have been going on for quite a while... In the meantime, it looks like Angel was the one who gave him inside information that he used in MOVOY... https://dylagence.wordpress.com/2021/03/12/a-possible-connection-in-the-vortex-odd-references-in-bob-dylans-my-own-version-of-you/ FYI, my sister prefers to be called "Angela", but as Dylan uses the term "Angel" in his key songs, perhaps to indicate information coming from her, I will be calling her "Angel" from now on... Edited June 19, 2021 by Pamela Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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