DiEugenio, Cranor, and the mole (my mole) - 3/31/20

[David Lifton]

Matt Allison's ignorance shines through, along with his arrogance.

First of all, the body is/was evidence.

The body had to be controlled, in order to create a "politically correct" story about the assassination.

The goal, in this case, was for there to be a stable operation of the presidential line of succession.

The Dallas doctors -- basically truth tellers --- said President Kennedy was shot from the front.

Oswald -- the key to the lone assassin "solution"  --was located behind.

For this to be implemented, the autopsy conclusions had to be falsified,

So. . .either the autopsy doctors were crooked, or the evidence they examined , the body,  had to be falsified.

Oswald running out the front door, and grabbing a flight to Mexico, would not have solved that problem.

Had Allison been on the Board of Directors of the "Assassination Committee," his suggestion(s) would have been dismissed as absurd, and he would have been fired.

IMHO.

P.S. I can just see the public reaction to Oswald having exited the front door of the TSBD, and gone to Mexico, if the autopsy results were not falsified.  

CRONKITE: "And we have a report that one of the employees of the Texas School Book Depository went to Mexico.  We're not sure what this means, since the shots appeared to have come from an area in the front of the President, known as the "grassy knoll."  

 

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by David Lifton

[Evan Marshall]

I've feared for decades that the biggest thing inhibiting us is ego. If we cannot admit our humanity or that we actually might be wrong!

[Matt Allison]

David Lifton- Your fairy tale has been a nuisance for too long.

If Oswald was supposed to be the fall guy, then the plotters wouldn't make it so the assassination could be blamed on someone else.

That is common sense, of which you have exactly zero.

The End.

[David Lifton]

Your syntax and grammar make it impossible to understand what you are trying to say. 

[David Lifton]

5 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

As David pointed out a million times, the operation could have been bungled by a number of factors, resulting in an undesirable "plan B" of tampering with the body on the starboard side of AF1.

 

David didn't invent the body alteration theory, Dallas medical examiner Earl Rose did, before AF1 even took off. He insisted that the body/casket be attended to at all times to ensure a chain of custody. Why would he say that unless as a safeguard against body tampering, of the suspicion thereof?

Micah:  Re the last last four (4) words of your post.. :I think you meant to write "or" instead of "of"; so it would read: "or the suspicion thereof."  DSL

[James DiEugenio]

Oh please Micah.

Are you for real?

Earl Rose created the myth of body alteration? Almost as bad as Shakespeare creating it for his play.

Technically Lifton did not create that idea.  It was Newcomb.  But Lifton will say he gave it to Fred.  

Earl Rose?  Oh God.

 

[Ron Ecker]

2 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

If Oswald was supposed to be the fall guy, then the plotters wouldn't make it so the assassination could be blamed on someone else.

Oswald would be the fall guy in the sense that he would be the one shooter (a known "pro-Castro Commie") identified, eliminated probably on his way to Cuba via Mexico. The only problem was he wound up in a Dallas jail, which transformed him into the only shooter, eliminated on his way to a ride in the basement.

 

 

 

 

 

[Matt Allison]

1 hour ago, Ron Ecker said:

Oswald would be the fall guy in the sense that he would be the one shooter (a known "pro-Castro Commie") identified, eliminated probably on his way to Cuba via Mexico. The only problem was he wound up in a Dallas jail, which transformed him into the only shooter, eliminated on his way to a ride in the basement.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Ron- I'll try phrasing this a different way:

If the intention was for Lee Oswald to be the *only* person to be blamed for the assassination, then the plotters would not have put a gunman in front of Kennedy, as then the murder could be blamed on someone else, since Oswald was inside the TSBD.

To keep the blame *only* on Oswald what they might have done was either:

1. Place an expert marksman on the 6th floor of TSBD.

2. Place an expert marksman on the 6th floor of the Dal Tex building to shoot simultaneously while Oswald fired off a few rounds from the TSBD with his toy rifle.

If JFK was shot from the front, it came from the corner of the railroad bridge by the south knoll. There is no angle from the more famous Grassy Knoll that works with Kennedy's head wound, as his right temple was practically facing that area at Z313. But something did happen behind that fence during the shooting; either a gun was fired and missed or something that sounded like a gun was triggered somehow, in order to distract and draw attention there.

But let's remember something- JFK did not need to be shot from the front in order to be assassinated. We talk about a front shooter because of the head snap and the reaction of the witnesses running at the Grassy Knoll.

I believe that there is suggestive evidence to show that the plotter's plan was to get Oswald into Mexico, and then give the impression that he had been flown from there into Cuba, thus guaranteeing a US military attack on Cuba.

That didn't happen, but the attempt to tie the assassination to Castro continued immediately afterward anyway.

 

[Matt Allison]

1 hour ago, Ron Ecker said:

Oswald would be the fall guy in the sense that he would be the one shooter (a known "pro-Castro Commie") identified, eliminated probably on his way to Cuba via Mexico. The only problem was he wound up in a Dallas jail, which transformed him into the only shooter, eliminated on his way to a ride in the basement.

 

 

 

 

 

And I think I understand what you are saying, but that would mean a decision to change plans and make Oswald the *only* suspect was made in the less than 3 hours between the announcement of Oswald's arrest and AF1 touching down at Andrews.

[Joseph McBride]

The DPD knew who Oswald was well before the assassination and had

Officers Tippit and Mentzel tracking him down shortly after it happened.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Joseph McBride

[Ron Ecker]

4 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

And I think I understand what you are saying, but that would mean a decision to change plans and make Oswald the *only* suspect was made in the less than 3 hours between the announcement of Oswald's arrest and AF1 touching down at Andrews.

Yes, it was very messy, and they couldn't have gotten away with it without the government being a conspirator, the media being accessories, and of course all the sheeple.

 

 

[Joe Bauer]

9 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

The DPD knew who Oswald was well before the assassination and had

Officers Tippit and Mentzel tracking him down shortly after it happened.

Was this pre-assassination DPD knowledge of Oswald anything more than just a general awareness of his irregular Russia experience, bringing back a Russian wife and pro-Castro political activity in New Orleans and if so, was probably shared with them by the local FBI?

Like, keep any eye on this strange political activity "odd-ball?"

Or, was it a deeper and more involved interest?

Including a suspicion of Oswald's possible involvement with the General Walker incident?

Or, are you suggesting someone in the DPD knew Oswald would be involved in a JFK killing plot "before" 11,22,1963? Perhaps in a co-conspiracy way?

Was Tippit's and Mentzel's specific track down of Oswald starting around 12:30 PM simply because they were given his name by Fritz's men once they were told by Roy Truly that Oswald alone went missing from the Texas School Book depository within minutes of the shooting where every other employee present earlier stayed around and was accounted for ?

Do you put any import stock in the Earlene Robert's testimony of seeing a DPD car pull up in front of her rooming house and honking their horn twice and then pulling away, at the exact brief time Oswald was in his room changing clothes just 75 feet from the police car stopping location?

Just trying to understand your inference in mentioning the DPD knowledge of Oswald before 11,22,1963 and Tippit's and Lambert's search for him specifically before Tippit was gunned down. I'm sure this is in your book which I haven't read.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[Steve Thomas]

Ray Hawkins and T.A. Hutson both participated in the apprehension of Lee Oswald.

Ray Hawkins call sign was 211

T.A. Hutson call sign was 284

 

J.D. Tippit is shot.

Multiple units respond.

A search of the houses in the vicinity is undertaken.

The search of the houses proves fruitless.

A suspect is spotted at the Library.

Multiple units respond.

 

Sometime between the search of the houses and the sighting of a suspect at the Library, Hawkins and Hutson make a stop at a Mobile Gas Station at 10th and Beckley to make a phone call, supposedly in response from a request from Dispatch to call in.

I do not find any reference to this phone call in the Dispatch tapes.

Is it odd that Tippit and Hawkins are making phone calls on a landline telephone right around this same time period?

And what was Hutson doing that he burned out the clutch on his motorcycle? Either the motorcycles in the DPD were poorly maintained, or Hutson was doing some pretty wild riding.

(Hawkins) “We had just finished the accident at this time and I was driving an officer, Baggett, and I proceeded to Oak Cliff to the general vicinity of the call after checking out with the dispatcher, stating that we were proceeding in that direction.”

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hawkins.htm

 

From the Dispatch tapes - Between 1:16 and 1:19 PM:

DIS 211:

211.

DIS: 211.

211: We're clear, Industrial and Stemmons. We'll go out there.

DIS: 10-4, 211

"We arrived in Oak Cliff and there were several squads in the general vicinity of where the shooting had occurred---different stories had come out that the person was--the suspect had been seen in the immediate vicinity."
Mr. BALL. Did you go to 10th and Patton?
Mr. HAWKINS. We drove by 10th and Patton--we didn't stop at the location.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go then?
Mr. HAWKINS. We circled the vicinity around Jefferson and Marsalis and in that area, talking to several people on the street, asking if they had seen anyone running up the alley or running down the street, and then they received a call, or I believe Officer Walker put out a call that he had just seen a white man running to the Oak Cliff Library, at which time we proceeded to this location. Officer Hutson had gotten into the car with us when we arrived in Oak Cliff, and there were three of us in the squad car--Officer Baggett, Officer Hutson, and myself.
Mr. BALL Hutson is also a patrolman?

Mr. HAWKINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. A uniformed patrolman?
Mr. HAWKINS. Yes, sir; he is a three-wheel officer.

(Hutson) http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hutson.htm

Mr. HUTSON. As I was being released, (From Elm and Houston) I heard the radio dispatcher come on the radio and give a Signal 19, and that a shooting involving a police officer in the 500 block of East Jefferson...

Mr. BELIN. When you heard this news about this shooting in Oak Cliff----by the way, where was your regular station ordinarily?
Mr. HUTSON. I worked west of Vernon on Jefferson.
Mr. BELIN. Is that Oak Cliff?
Mr. HUTSON. Yes; that is West Jefferson Boulevard.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do after you heard about the shooting?
Mr. HUTSON. I got on my motorcycle and I proceeded down through the triple underpass and up onto R. L. Thornton Freeway to Oak Cliff.
Mr. BELIN. Where did you go?
Mr. HUTSON. I exited off Jefferson and went to the 400 block of East Jefferson Boulevard and began a search of the two-story house behind 10th Street where the officer had been shot.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. HUTSON. And after we searched this area, I got in the squad car with Officer Ray Hawkins, who was driving, and Officer Baggett was riding in the back seat.
Mr. BELIN. Why did you get inside the squad car?
Mr. HUTSON. The clutch on my motorcycle was burned out and I couldn't get any speed and I just barely made it over there, and I didn't know whether I would be able to start and go or not.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

 

Mr. HUTSON. We proceeded west on 10th Street to Beckley, and we pulled into the Mobil gas station at Beckley and 10th Street.
Mr. BELIN. That is a Mobil gas station?
Mr. HUTSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. HUTSON. And Officer Ray Hawkins and Officer Baggett went inside of the Mobil gas station. And I am not positive, but I think they used the telephone to call in.
I am not positive, but I believe they gave us a call for us to call. I mean their number to call in.
At the time they were in the service station, I heard the dispatcher give a call that the suspect was just seen running across the lawn at the Oak Cliff Branch Library at Marsalis and Jefferson.
I reached over and blew the siren on the squad car to attract the officers' attention, Officers Baggett and Hawkins, and they came running out of the service station and jumped in the car, and I told them to report to, I can't remember, Marsalis and Jefferson, the suspect was seen running across the lawn at the library.

From the Dispatch tapes - 1:34 PM

22: They've got him holed up, it looks like, in this building over here at the corner.

22: (?) ...were you be?

85: 85, library.

DIS: 10-4.

211: 211 out at that location.

DIS: 10-4.

 

Hawkins is circling the area around Jefferson and Marsalis (where the Library is). (which is about six blocks east of where Tippit has been shot)

He heads west and picks up Hutson in the neighborhood of 10th and Patton. They continue west on 10th till they get to Beckley and 10th, where they make a phone call at a Mobil Gas Station. While they're in there on a phone call, Dispatch announces that a suspect has been seen at the Library, so they head back east again.

 

1. Why didn't Hawkins mention this phone call when he testified before the Warren Commission on April 3, 1964? http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hawkins.htm

   Why did he and Baggett fail to mention this phone call in their after-action reports in the DPD JFK Archives? The first six lines of E.R. Baggett's and Ray Hawkins' Reports on the arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald in the DPD Archives read word for word. Neither mention the stop at the Mobil Gas Station.

2. Baggett: Box 1, Folder# 4, Item# 13
   http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box1.htm

   
   Hawkins: Box 2, Folder# 7, Item# 18
   http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm

    

3. Why didn't Hawkins call in to Dispatch that he was “out of service”?

4. Why did it take both Hawkins and Baggett to make this phone call? E.R. Baggett is a patrolman temporarily assigned to the DPD Special Service Bureau.
   http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf

5. Why did neither Hutson or Hawkins call in to headquarters notifying them that Hutson is now with Hawkins?

6. If Hawkins is on the phone to headquarters, why does Hutson need to turn on the siren alerting Hawkins and Baggett that the suspect has been seen at the Library? Who are Hawkins and Baggett talking to?

7. Why is there no record in the Dispatch tapes of this call to Hawkins to call in to Headquarters?

8. Why didn't Hutson call in to Dispatch that his motorcycle was disabled and needed a tow truck?

9. Why hasn't Hawkins' telephone call from the Mobil Gas Station received the same attention as Tippit's phone call from the Top Ten Record Store?

 

What do you think of the idea that Tippit's call at the Top Ten Record Store and Hawkins' call at the Mobil Gas Station are related; as in

"I can't find him.", or "He's not here.", meaning Oswald?

 

From the account's I've read, Tippit was behaving erratically, and the stop at Top Ten was a rushed affair.

 

A fellow officer has been shot. There is an armed and dangerous suspect on the loose. Hawkins responds to the Tippit shooting, but doesn't stop at 10th and Patton. He goes to the Library neighborhood at Jefferson and Marsalis and starts circling the neighborhood. He drives back to 10th and Patton, picks up Hutson, and then he and Baggett stop and make a phone call from a Mobil Gas Station at 10th and Beckley, leaving Hutson in the car. When Hutson blows the siren to let them know that a suspect has been seen at the Library, they go rushing back over there.

 

Is it possible that Tippit and Hawkins were calling the same people?

 

Ray Hawkins:

 

From Mary Ferrell Database

Dallas Police Department Patrolman. Friend of Jack Ruby. Name in Crafard's notebook (Ruby's).

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/marysdb.php?id=4658

DPD Archives Box 18, Folder# 6, Item# 13 p. 2

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box18.htm

Ray Hawkins 5119 Live Oak TA 1 5196

Had a membership card to Carousel Club. Said he had been in there 2 or 3 times and that Ruby said he would give him a permanent pass but never received.

Memo from Westbrook to Curry dated December 12, 1963

WC Hearings and Exhibits 25H168

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1141#relPageId=198&tab=page

However:

There was a permanent pass to the Carousel Club issued to a Ray Hawkins at City Hall.
Pass# 227
CE 1322 p. 502
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317#relPageId=532&tab=page

 

When Kenneth Croy testified to the Warren Commission on March 26, 1964, he said,

Mr. GRIFFIN. Where do you live?
Mr. CROY. 1658 Glenfield Dallas, Tex.

“Mr. GRIFFIN. What is your occupation?
Mr. CROY. I have several.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let's have them in order.
Mr. CROY. I am in the real estate business. I have a Mobil service station...”

1658 Glenfield is roughly a mile southwest of the Texas Theater

posting by an unknown author in the ReopenKennedyCase Forum 1/29/2014

“Croy’s home by the way was 1658 Glenfield. This was the same street that J. D. Tippit lived on until 1961. Glenfield was also the same street that Carl Amos Mather used to live on a few blocks from Tippit’s house when they first became friends. For those unfamiliar with Mather he is connected to proceedings becuase a license plate number was taken down by garage mechanic T. F. White close to the Texas Theater immediately after Oswald’s arrest that was traced back to Carl Amos Mather’s car. The occupant of the car seen by White bore an uncanny resemblance to Lee Harvey Oswald and Carl Mather, when interviewed, told of his friendship with J. D. Tippit.  Tippit's old house of 1919 Glenfield, even though he and his family no longer lived there in 1963, was still in his possession and the property was rented out As far as I'm aware it was never investigated who it was rented out to. Croy’s house was three blocks from the house Tippit owned. During his Warren Commission testimony it is interesting to note that Cro was not asked if he knew Officer Tippit”.

.Are ivory-handled revolvers standard issue for a traffic cop?

https://tvnooz.com/2013/11/12/killing-kennedy-the-cop-who-slapped-the-cuffs-on-lee-harvey-oswald/

Lee Harvey Oswald handcuffs valued at $250,000

http://www.paulfrasercollectibles.com/news/memorabilia/lee-harvey-oswald-handcuffs-valued-at-250-000/22042.page

November 30, 2016

"The Dallas Police Department made its officers and detectives buy their own handcuffs, thus allowing Hawkins to retain his private property after the assassination."

The lot is estimated to bring in $250,000 ahead of the December 3 close date.

https://goldinauctions.com/Lee_Harvey_Oswald_Handcuffs_Used_to_Arrest_Oswald_-lot27299.aspx

Oswald was bundled into a patrol car and taken downtown. Hawkins followed and then went about fulfilling the routine written reports and pertinent interviews. The handcuffs, no longer needed once Oswald was secure in the Dallas Police holding cells, were returned to Officer Hawkins. These are the handcuffs that captured President Kennedy’s assassin. The Smith & Wesson cuffs were originally issued to Officer Hawkins when he joined the Dallas Police Department in 1953. Bearing the serial number “38468”, Hawkins used these rare and iconic cuffs throughout his entire career and retained them after he left the force. The Smith & Wesson handcuffs remain a silent reminder of that fateful day in Dallas when the Nation changed forever. The handcuffs are accompanied by a signed and notarized affidavit from Ray Hawkins describing his actions on November 22, 1963 and the role these handcuffs played the capture of Lee Harvey Oswald. It is also noteworthy to mention that this is one of the very few significant JFK-Oswald items that is not in the National Archives. The Dallas Police Department made its officers and detectives buy their own handcuffs, thus allowing Hawkins to retain his private property after the assassination.

https://goldinauctions.com/ItemImages/000027/27299c_lg.jpeg

Ray Hawkins

March 30, 1932 - November 16, 2015

http://www.restlandfuneralhome.com/obituaries/Ray-Hawkins-2/

T.A. Hutson worked Traffic Division Traffic Control Second Platoon 10:00 AM to 6:00 PM

https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf

Ray Hawkins worked Traffic Division Accident Prevention Bureau 7:00 AM to 3:00 PM

https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf

Obituary of Jean Hawkins

http://www.newhopefh.com/obituaries/Jean-Hawkins-29640/#!/Obituary

 

Steve Thomas

[David Andrews]

12 hours ago, Evan Marshall said:

I've feared for decades that the biggest thing inhibiting us is ego. If we cannot admit our humanity or that we actually might be wrong!

Killjoy!

[David Lifton]

On 4/1/2020 at 9:28 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Oh please Micah.

Are you for real?

Earl Rose created the myth of body alteration? Almost as bad as Shakespeare creating it for his play.

Technically Lifton did not create that idea.  It was Newcomb.  But Lifton will say he gave it to Fred.  

Earl Rose?  Oh God.

 

PERSONAL NOTE TO Jim DiEugenio:

You write: "Technically, Lifton did not create that idea."

Oh really?  Is this another one of your ventures into the Twilight Zone?  Or what.

If my Grandmother were still alive, she'd probably suggest that someone should wash out your mouth with soap.

Please note the following sequence:

July 1966: While employed at Ramparts (magazine), I co-authored "The Case for Three Assassins," a 30,000 word essay on the medical evidence (First pub date:11/22/66, in the  UCLA Bruin); then, in a cover story in the January 1967 issue of Ramparts.

October 1966 - I discovered the statement in the Sibert and O'Neill Report about "surgery of the head area"  (See Best Evidence, Chapter 7)

Later,  Oct., 1966: I interviewed Dr. Perry about the length of the tracheotomy incision that he made ("2-3 cm" --See Ch 11, B.E.); and realized it had been enlarged (See B.E., Chapter 7, 8 and 11)

Early Nov 1966: I interviewed Commander. Humes (who conducted the JFK autopsy, at Bethesda) about the FBI statement about pre-autopsy surgery. (His response: "I'd like to know by whom it was done, and when, and where!" [B.E., Ch 8])

Early Nov 1966: I assisted Prof. Liebeler---and his two UCLA-paid assistants--in writing the Liebeler memorandum (of Nov 8 1966), in which I was given full credit for having made this discovery.(See Ch. 9 of B.E., "The Liebeler Memorandum")

Nov 16, 1966: Liebeler transmitted his 12 page memo to every member of the WC, the entire staff, Atty Gen. RFK, and the White House

Nov 1966, and beyond: I commenced interviewing all the Dallas doctors, and then the members of the MDW casket team, to ascertain evidence as to when the body could have been intercepted and altered.(Ch. 16, B.E.)

All this is a matter of record.  The Liebeler Memo is now part of the documents at NARA, in the "JFK Collection".

Please note: The following year, I first met Fred Newcomb; and subsequently (around 1970 - 1971) I told him about my research. His first published article about "surgery of the head area" appeared about 1974/75.

NOTICE TO JIM DiEugenio: STOP LYING ABOUT THIS SEQUENCE .

Surely you know better. 

Stop pretending that you are unaware of this sequence; stop saying that all this was discovered by Fred Newcomb, who I had not yet even met (until 1967); at which point he learned about my work. 

Let me now repeat the false statement that you made: QUOTE: "Technically Lifton did not create that idea.  It was Newcomb.  But Lifton will say he gave it to Fred."

That is flat out false.  

Jim DiEugenio: Get real: Body Alteration is a concept that was discovered by me, and is laid out in the Liebeler Memorandum of November 8 1966, a memo that went to Attorney General Robert Kennedy, to every member of the Warren Commission, and to the White House (and is today at the National Archives, as part of the JFK Collection).

Furthermore, all of this is described--in detail-- in BEST EVIDENCE  (Chapters 7 - 10; published in January 1981). 

Jim DiEugenio: If you continue to promote and disseminate these falsehoods, then Pat Valentino and I will appear on Black Ops radio, discuss this sequence in detail, and expose these falsehoods, to the detriment of any objective assessment of your character. I will also amend my Oral History at the Sixth Floor Museum to make sure this entire matter is discussed in detail, including your many misrepresentations.

One other matter (and that concerns the issue of ghost writers): Everything in Best Evidence was written by me.  I didn't (and do not)  employ ghost writers, nor do I avail myself of "contributors" --as is your practice--who write much of what appears in your publication ("Kennedys and Kings") along with the description: "Written by Jim DiEugenio," when that is clearly not the case. No wonder you slipped up, and recently wrote that "we" would have something "soon" about the Dylan situation and "Murder Most Foul."

Who is the "we" Jim? Why did you not state "I will write" or "I plan to write."  

Have you forgotten how to use the English language?

Again: who is "we"? Who's the ghost  behind much of what appears under your own name?

David S. Lifton - 4/2/2020 - 9 AM PST

Edited April 3, 2020 by David Lifton