Heroes of the Kennedy Assassination Research Effort

[Joseph McBride]

In response to the question posed by Joe Bauer, here is the dedication to my book INTO THE NIGHTMARE:

"To Acquilla Clemmons, S. M. Holland, Mary Ann Moorman, and the other witnesses who came forward with great courage, at the risk of their safety and sometimes even at the cost of their lives, to tell us the truth as they saw it about the assassination of President Kennedy and the surrounding events. These people, uncommon common men and women, are the only true heroes of this tragic case; they refused to accept the lies about these events while relentlessly pursuing the truth and making it possible for others to do so on our nation’s behalf."

[Cliff Varnell]

 

[Ron Ecker]

1 hour ago, Joseph McBride said:

In response to the question posed by Joe Bauer, here is the dedication to my book INTO THE NIGHTMARE:

"To Acquilla Clemmons, S. M. Holland, Mary Ann Moorman, and the other witnesses who came forward with great courage, at the risk of their safety and sometimes even at the cost of their lives, to tell us the truth as they saw it about the assassination of President Kennedy and the surrounding events. These people, uncommon common men and women, are the only true heroes of this tragic case; they refused to accept the lies about these events while relentlessly pursuing the truth and making it possible for others to do so on our nation’s behalf."

Also, Mary Moorman was hot.

 

 

[John Butler]

19 hours ago, Ron Ecker said:

I think we're talking about two different categories here. Generally speaking, witnesses and researchers. I agree that witnesses who took great risks about what they experienced can rightly be called heroes. There's already a couple of Who's Who books on the assassination that includes such folks. What I think would really be useful with regard to researchers would be a Who's Who in JFK Assassination Research, with each entry summarizing what that person contributed to or covered in research. Examples: Sherry Fiester on trajectories, Vince Palamara on the Secret Service, Cliff Varnell on the holes in the clothes. To make it easy, each person could write his or her own entry. Those deceased, of course, would have to let someone else do it. And the whole thing would then need an editor, in case some entrants go overboard about their own work (using Trumpian adjectives like "incredible," "huge," and "fantastic").

 

 

 

 

Good ideas Ron,

I believe this is evolving into something that may be useful to other people.  I need to go back and revise those few blurbs I have made on certain people.  This list should be searchable in a Word doc or .pdf to find what you are looking for.  For instance it you searched for trajectories you would come up with Sherry Fiester and others who have done similar work.

Now that would be useful.  Here's something a little out there.  I read that the Russians had a poison gas gun in the 1950s that gave one a heart attack with out being recognized as a poison assassination event.  I believe we would have had one too,  Using Jim Marrs list of 103 people one could query "heart attack" and see how many folks died after 1963 who had a heart attack under suspicious circumstances.

To others,

I am adding the new names to the list.  I trust folks judgement on this and not the criticism of others.  I myself would not put Mary Moorman on the list.  But, others don't see her the way I do and she will go on the list with standard information of what others think rather than what I think. 

What I am saying is we need to trust and allow other people's judgement on who is praiseworthy.

 

[John Butler]

8 hours ago, Ron Ecker said:

Also, Mary Moorman was hot.

 

 

That's was a part of her problem.  Some people think she and Jean Hill were police groupies.  Regardless, her testimony is taken as the truth by many, many people.  She is seen as heroic for her testimony and photos.

[John Butler]

10 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Mort Sahl

Dick Gregory

Richard Belzer

Bill Hicks

Bob Dylan

John Kelin

 

Dick Gregory?  Is that the black comedian/activist of the 1970s?  If so, I can't remember anything that he did vis-à-vis the Kennedy assassination?  Can you clarify?

[John Butler]

14 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Bless you, John. Great to hear!

I’d be comfortable in a category like:

Notable Internet Hobbyists

Drop the hero bit.

I nominate the late great Bernice Moore in this category.

This list is evolving into something more than who people judge heroic but, with people who judge themselves non-heroic and of people others judge non-heroic.  IMO, if you made an effort to get at the truth in the Kennedy Assassination or was someone who suffered due to what they know you should be on the list.

To me I would have a hard time putting folks like Ike Altgens on the list.  But, if someone nominates him then he goes on the list.  I will try to write some factual and not what I think. 

[Cliff Varnell]

9 minutes ago, John Butler said:

Dick Gregory?  Is that the black comedian/activist of the 1970s?  If so, I can't remember anything that he did vis-à-vis the Kennedy assassination?  Can you clarify?

From his wiki:

Gregory became an outspoken critic of the findings of the Warren Commission concerning the assassination of John F. Kennedy by Lee Harvey Oswald. On March 6, 1975, Gregory and assassination researcher Robert J. Groden appeared on Geraldo Rivera's late night ABC talk show Goodnight America. An important historical event happened that night when the famous Zapruder film of JFK's assassination was shown to the public on TV for the first time.^[49] The public's response and outrage to its showing led to the forming of the Hart-Schweiker investigation, which contributed to the Church CommitteeInvestigation on Intelligence Activities by the United States, which resulted in the United States House Select Committee on Assassinations investigation.</q>

https://jfkfacts.org/tag/dick-gregory/

[John Butler]

1 minute ago, Cliff Varnell said:

From his wiki:

Gregory became an outspoken critic of the findings of the Warren Commission concerning the assassination of John F. Kennedy by Lee Harvey Oswald. On March 6, 1975, Gregory and assassination researcher Robert J. Groden appeared on Geraldo Rivera's late night ABC talk show Goodnight America. An important historical event happened that night when the famous Zapruder film of JFK's assassination was shown to the public on TV for the first time.^[49] The public's response and outrage to its showing led to the forming of the Hart-Schweiker investigation, which contributed to the Church CommitteeInvestigation on Intelligence Activities by the United States, which resulted in the United States House Select Committee on Assassinations investigation.</q>

https://jfkfacts.org/tag/dick-gregory/

Thanks Cliff,

Now I recall.  I remember seeing that at the time.  I will use this when I write comments about Gregory.  I won't write what I think.

I remember seeing Dick Gregory at a 1969 visit/show at Western KY U.  He struck me as a radical/communist or socialist revolutionary from what he said at the time. He was openly advocating the overthrow of the US government.  It didn't sit well with me at the time since I had just left the army.  The people I was with at the time missed this completely.  Back in those days I believed Oswald killed Kennedy and when he was killed it was good riddance.  It saved the cost of a trial. 

   

[Joe Bauer]

1 hour ago, John Butler said:

Thanks Cliff,

Now I recall.  I remember seeing that at the time.  I will use this when I write comments about Gregory.  I won't write what I think.

I remember seeing Dick Gregory at a 1969 visit/show at Western KY U.  He struck me as a radical/communist or socialist revolutionary from what he said at the time. He was openly advocating the overthrow of the US government.  It didn't sit well with me at the time since I had just left the army.  The people I was with at the time missed this completely.  Back in those days I believed Oswald killed Kennedy and when he was killed it was good riddance.  It saved the cost of a trial. 

   

John Butler. 

Your complete turn around in JFK assassination beliefs and sentiment from your early twenties age of totally accepting the Oswald Lone Assassin finding of the Warren Report and actually thinking "good riddance" to JFK's murder to now being of opposite views towards caring about the truth of it's creation and motives is interesting in it's extreme contradiction.

Can you briefly explain how this occurred and when?

I believed from the second I watched Jack Ruby whack Oswald in the Dallas Police Department building basement with 70 armed security personnel present live on TV at the age of 12 that there was much, much more to JFK's killing than what we were being told through the media and our highest federal government officials and Dallas DA Henry Wade, Dallas PD Chief Jessie Curry and Captain Will Fritz who famously shouted to the press on Sunday 11,23,1963 that ... "THIS CASE IS CINCHED!"

Edited April 16, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[John Kowalski]

John:

Thanks for mentioning me.

[John Butler]

2 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

John Butler. 

Your complete turn around in JFK assassination beliefs and sentiment from your early twenties age of totally accepting the Oswald Lone Assassin finding of the Warren Report and actually thinking "good riddance" to JFK's murder to now being of opposite views towards caring about the truth of it's creation and motives is interesting in it's extreme contradiction.

Can you briefly explain how this occurred and when?

I believed from the second I watched Jack Ruby whack Oswald in the Dallas Police Department building basement with 70 armed security personnel present live on TV at the age of 12 that there was much, much more to JFK's killing than what we were being told through the media and our highest federal government officials and Dallas DA Henry Wade, Dallas PD Chief Jessie Curry and Captain Will Fritz who famously shouted to the press on Sunday 11,23,1963 that ... "THIS CASE IS CINCHED!"

It's far worse than that.  I come from a family that were and still are yellow-dog democrats.  At one time I thought Lyndon Johnson was the best president ever.  I even cheated to vote for him at age 17 in 1964.  I thought I had pulled a fast one.  Not so, the county officials were glad to get another democratic vote. 

How I became disenchanted with Johnson and the Kennedy Assassination I owe to Dan Rather.  Dan Rather did a two part series in the mid 70s on the Kennedy Assassination.  In which Oswald was hired and worked at Jaggers-Child-Stovall.  This was a firm that dealt with U2 and satellite photos of Cuban during the Cuban Crisis.  What was Oswald, a defector to the Soviet Union and a professed Marxist (socialist, Marxist, communist are all communists in my opinion) doing there? 

I went to Dealey Plaza in 2015 and walked around for the afternoon.  Met Robert Groden and his crew.  There I saw a placard with the Altgens 7 photo on it.  I struck me that can't be right.  There were railroad men on the underpass, about 10.  I had seen something that said differently.  Actually, there are about 5 films/photos showing no one on the railroad bridge as the limousine approaches it.  Another was looking at the Backyard Photos.  One look and you could see it was a fake.  That was confirmed by Jack White's work.

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by John Butler

[John Butler]

2 hours ago, John Kowalski said:

John:

Thanks for mentioning me.

No problem John K.

[John Butler]

Here's 9 more for the list:

By my count, we have 9 witnesses who claim they saw a bullet hole in windshield:

• Frank Cormier, St Louis Dispatch

• Richard Dudman, St Louis Dispatch

• Stavis Ellis, DPD 

• HR Freeman, DPD 

• Dr Evalea Glanges

• Bill Greer, SS (told to Nick Prencipe, US Parks Police)

• Joe Paolella, SS 

• Charles Taylor, Jr, SS 

• George Whitaker, Ford

[Cliff Varnell]

  4 hours ago, John Butler said:

This list is evolving into something more than who people judge heroic but, with people who judge themselves non-heroic and of people others judge non-heroic.  

I have a keen sense of my own bravery or lack thereof.

I could have exhibited bravery at the 2005 Cracking the Case Conference in Bethesda — but I choked, froze, screwed the pooch.  So did the other 200 people in attendance.

There was a panel discussion on-stage and Anthony Summers intoned words to the effect — we shouldn’t look at what kind of conspiracy but “IF” (emphasis his) there was a conspiracy.

No one challenged that in the Q&A.  I felt absolutely gutless afterward.

  2 hours ago, John Butler said:

IMO, if you made an effort to get at the truth in the Kennedy Assassination or was someone who suffered due to what they know you should be on the list.

With such an expanded definition allow me to nominate...Kishan Dandiker et al — everyone born after 1996 who stand on the shoulders of Gaeton Fonzi!

Dandiker: 

 Fonzi has to be on the list. His book, correctly, is regarded as one of the best on the topic. Praise from people like Tanenbaum proves what a fierce investigator he was, and 'The Last Investigation' is still a pertinent warning about government corruption.

Gen Zers who have an on-the-right-track interest in the JFKA give me hope in the future.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Cliff Varnell