The CIA and the Book Depository

[James DiEugenio]

Jim:

That is a really interesting find about Truly..  Are you sure it's true?

[Jim Hargrove]

On 5/12/2020 at 4:57 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

According to this Find-a-Grave page, Roy Truly's wife Mildred was related to a rather famous family:

 

Mildred W. Chenault Truly

Rest in Peace. Daughter of William R. Chenault who was 1st cousin of famed WWII & CIA-affiliated Flying Tigers Gen. Claire Chennault. Her branch of the family spelled their surname with one "n" rather than two.

 

4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Jim:

That is a really interesting find about Truly..  Are you sure it's true?

The Find-a-Grave listing is the only evidence I’ve seen so far, but the family connection should be easy enough to track down for anyone with genealogy resources.  Forum member John Butler’s wife has expertise here and maybe she will help out.  I’ll send Mr. Butler a note.

Gary Shaw, btw, told John Armstrong about this and John told me about it Monday.  Bill Kelly did some work on this last year... but I’d also like to find a better source than a Find-a-Grave "flower."

[John Butler]

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

 

The Find-a-Grave listing is the only evidence I’ve seen so far, but the family connection should be easy enough to track down for anyone with genealogy resources.  Forum member John Butler’s wife has expertise here and maybe she will help out.  I’ll send Mr. Butler a note.

Gary Shaw, btw, told John Armstrong about this and John told me about it Monday.  Bill Kelly did some work on this last year... but I’d also like to find a better source than a Find-a-Grave "flower."

Jim H,

Just as a matter of curiousity, is this important in some context (such as CIA connections) to the events of Dealey Plaza, Roy Truly, and other characters?  What am I missing? 

Is it the notation that Margaret Chenault Truly was 1st cousin to "Flying Tigers" Chennault?  At first glance this appears not to be true as far back as 1850.  No connection to the families that can be seen at this point.  Stay tuned for more in depth research.

Edited May 13, 2020 by John Butler

[Jim Hargrove]

Yes, we're looking a family connection between Roy Truly's wife and the famous Claire Chennault, despite the difference in spelling.

Roy Truly is pivotal to this case.  He hired Oswald at the Book Depository and soon after the assassination told DPD Chief Lumpkin that Oswald was missing.  I think Truly was a co-conspirator in this case.  Researchers have long suspected he had CIA ties, but little or no evidence has been found.  For much more on Truly, review Victoria Adams and Marion Baker.

[John Butler]

On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2020 at 10:56 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

Yes, we're looking a family connection between Roy Truly's wife and the famous Claire Chennault, despite the difference in spelling.

Roy Truly is pivotal to this case.  He hired Oswald at the Book Depository and soon after the assassination told DPD Chief Lumpkin that Oswald was missing.  I think Truly was a co-conspirator in this case.  Researchers have long suspected he had CIA ties, but little or no evidence has been found.  For much more on Truly, review Victoria Adams and Marion Baker.

 

There appears to be no relationship between the two families.  Often in genealogy research people go looking for famous ancestors.  And, guess what?  They find them.  So, this makes research difficult at times.

Mildred Chenault Truly Lineage:

Generation 1:

Mildred W. Chenault Truly: born 2/21/1910 – died 4/9/1996

Daughter of William Robert “Willie” Chenault

 

Generation 2:

William Robert “Willie” Chenault: born 10/4/1881 – died 2/12/1960

Son of George Hunter Chenault

 

Generation 3:

George Hunter Chenault: born 10/9/1854 – died 10/14/1936

Son of Robert T. Chenault

 

Generation 4:

Robert T. Chenault: born abt 1830 – died  before 1870 census

 

For William Robert Chenault to be a first cousin of Gen. Claire Chennault the general’s father would have to be a brother to George Hunter Chenault.  General Chennault’s father was John Stonewall Jackson Chennault.

 

George Robert Chenault had one sister named Tennessee and 4 brothers: William A., Jephtha H., Robert McClain, and John L.

 

There was no John Stonewall Jackson Chennault listed.

 

Claire Chennault Lineage:

 

Generation 1:

Claire Lee Chennault: born 1893 Commerce, TX – Died 7/27/1958 New Orleans

Son of John Stonewall Jackson Chennault

 

Generation 2:

John Stonewall Jackson Chennault: born 6/2/1862 Rayville, LA – died 8/8/1942 Gilbert, LA

Son of Stephen Nelson Chennault Sr.

 

Generation 3:

Stephen Nelson Chennault Sr.: born 2/17/1814 Nashville, TN – died 4/21/1871 Rayville, LA

Son of Christopher Chennault

 

Generation 4:

Christopher Chennault (Reformed Abolitionist): born 1760 Essex, Va – died 2/5/1823 Bardstown, KY

 

The siblings of John Stonewall Jackson Chennault were: Demaras E. (b 1856), Christopher Columbus (1856 – 1862), Laura Melissa (1868 – 1934), Joanna (1860 - ), Stephen Nelson Jr. (1867 – 1946) and George (bn 1870, he was 3 months old in 1870 census)

 

George Chennault, born in 1870, and was 3 months old in that year.  This is probably where the Find A Grave researcher went wrong.

 

The family research tree where this information comes from indicates that this George Chennault died young.  There is no further information past 1880.

 

Generation 3:

George Hunter Chenault: born 10/9/1854 – died 10/14/1936

Son of Robert T. Chenault

 

The 1870 Census has George Hunter Chenault as 14 years old.  And, again this is probably where the Find A Grave info is wrong. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by John Butler

[Jim Hargrove]

3 hours ago, John Butler said:

There appears to be no relationship between the two families.

Thank you for doing this, John.  For some reason, genealogy always makes my brain explode. I can't quite follow the generations you've outlined above, but if you're absolutely certain about your conclusion, I'm prepared to accept it.

[John Butler]

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Thank you for doing this, John.  For some reason, genealogy always makes my brain explode. I can't quite follow the generations you've outlined above, but if you're absolutely certain about your conclusion, I'm prepared to accept it.

It's patrilineal.  Dad's dad etc. except in the case of Margaret Chenault who begins her lineage line.  The fourth generation,  Stephen Nelson Chennault Sr., is her great-grandfather.

In the other, Claire Lee Chenault's, 4th generation is Christopher Chennault, Claire's great-grandfather.

As you can see there is no 1st cousin relationship or connection through 4 generations.  About the only thing connecting these two families is that both are from Tennessee.  But, could find no family relationship there.

Standards of proof in genealogy are the same as in a court.  You have 3 standards on which evidence is judged.  1st, there is the judgement of Preponderance of the Evidence, which means greater then 50% evidence up to about 90%. The 2nd is Clear and Convincing, here I think confidence is judged greater then 90%.  And, the last is Beyond A Reasonable Doubt which has a confidence level of greater then 95%.  (I'm not really sure these are confidence levels are 100% accurate, but are reasonably so.  Things change from time to time)

This type of genealogy work would be judged at least Clear and Convincing, perhaps, higher based on Census evidence.  

[James DiEugenio]

According to Greg Parker, John is wrong.

Truly is related to both the Chenaults and Fred Korth by marriage.

This if from a post at ROKC.

His report back was that I was wrong – Truly and Fred Korth were not related by blood – but by marriage.  Truly was in fact a cousin to Fred’s wife.   The inter-relationships traced below are based on this genealogical work

·        The respective grandfathers were 2nd cousins and without any doubt, knew each other because they lived in the same district in the same county - and Truly's grandfather was a Church minister so it's likely all the Sansom's in the area attended his church. He was also a druggist...

·        Truly's mother Josephine and Korth's mother-in-law, Nina were 14 years apart in age, but very likely knew each other - especially after 1897 when Marion Sansom moved his family back to Johnson County from Austin - before moving again this time to Forth Worth in 1902. Josephine married George Truly in 1900 and moved to the neighboring Hill County.

·        After 1912, Korth's future bride lived at her Grandfather's ranch for many years so she was close to her grandfather, grandmother and mother, all of whom were very likely to have known Roy Truly's mother - and therefore, possibly Roy as well. They all lived close enough to each other that they could have remained close and been frequent visitors. Thus, it is at least possible that Vera and Roy were acquainted as well -- and therefore maybe Fred and Roy, too.
 
My own thoughts: I already had Korth pegged as being involved in selecting Oswald for his Russian trip, so stumbling onto this connection to Truly was pretty mind-boggling to me. It seems possible that Roy was close enough to reach out to - and distant enough that no one would suspect a connection.

So – distant cousins – yes – but raised in small Texas communities where everyone knew each other, and especially so for those who were related. I can personally relate because my childhood was exactly like that – small rural communities where you knew everyone and were related to most of them.

But again – that’s not all. Based on my interest in the Truly – Korth connection, my correspondent did some checking on Truly’s wife Mildred. What he found was her father’s 1962 obituary from the Dallas Morning News reproduced below. The story confirmed that William Chenault was a cousin to Claire Chenault and listed among William’s surviving children was Mildred Truly. Unless there were 2 Mildred Truly’s living In Dallas, this was Roy’s wife, and she was a second cousin to the General. 

[James DiEugenio]

If Parker's above info is correct, and it appears that it is, and we add in the Glaze letters, plus the new info about Truly from Oliver Stone, plus the actions taken by these two men afterward in incriminating Oswald, can this all be just a coincidence?

I am not saying it is, and I am not saying it is not.

But it sure as heck merited an inquiry.  And as far as I can tell neither the HSCA nor the WC did so.  If they had, I think the ARRB would have declassified it and to my knowledge they have not.

[John Butler]

19 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Truly is related to both the Chenaults and Fred Korth by marriage.

Chenault or Chennault?  They are different families.

Roy Truly married Mildred Chenault.  Not Chennault.  If he was related to the Chenault family is some other ways was not the question.  The question was are William Robert Chenault and Claire Lee Chenault 1st cousins as claimed in the newspaper article in the Find A Grave source?  There is no US Census info to back this up.   

 

19 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

His report back was that I was wrong – Truly and Fred Korth were not related by blood – but by marriage.  Truly was in fact a cousin to Fred’s wife.   The inter-relationships traced below are based on this genealogical work

I don't know anything about Truly and Korths.  That was not Jim's question. 

William Robert Chenault and Claire Lee Chenault are not related by Census family records.

For William Robert Chenault to be a first cousin of Gen. Claire Chennault the general’s father would have to be a brother to George Hunter Chenault.  General Chennault’s father was John Stonewall Jackson Chennault.

 

George Robert Chenault had one sister named Tennessee and 4 brothers: William A., Jephtha H., Robert McClain, and John L.

 

The siblings of John Stonewall Jackson Chennault were: Demaras E. (b 1856), Christopher Columbus (1856 – 1862), Laura Melissa (1868 – 1934), Joanna (1860 - ), Stephen Nelson Jr. (1867 – 1946) and George (bn 1870, he was 3 months old in 1870 census)

 

George Chennault, born in 1870, and was 3 months old in that year.  This is probably where the Find A Grave researcher went wrong

 

George Hunter Chenault: born 10/9/1854 – died 10/14/1936

 

These are not the same people.

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by John Butler

[Ron Bulman]

8 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

If Parker's above info is correct, and it appears that it is, and we add in the Glaze letters, plus the new info about Truly from Oliver Stone, plus the actions taken by these two men afterward in incriminating Oswald, can this all be just a coincidence?

I am not saying it is, and I am not saying it is not.

But it sure as heck merited an inquiry.  And as far as I can tell neither the HSCA nor the WC did so.  If they had, I think the ARRB would have declassified it and to my knowledge they have not.

I don't think it's a coincidence Truly pointed out Oswald so quickly to the cops as the only missing employee, when he was Not the only one missing.  No matter his wife's lineage.  

I know Shelly claims to have put this bug in his ear, after he likely dismissed Oswald for the day.  But Truly ran with it, spread the false "rumor".  Just my two cents worth. 

[John Butler]

19 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

But again – that’s not all. Based on my interest in the Truly – Korth connection, my correspondent did some checking on Truly’s wife Mildred. What he found was her father’s 1962 obituary from the Dallas Morning News reproduced below. The story confirmed that William Chenault was a cousin to Claire Chenault and listed among William’s surviving children was Mildred Truly. Unless there were 2 Mildred Truly’s living In Dallas, this was Roy’s wife, and she was a second cousin to the General. 

2nd cousin to the General?  Can the Dallas Morning News article be published or linked to?

I've worked to much on Margaret Oswald.  I have inadvertently created this mess by absent mindedly typing Margaret for Mildred several times in this discussion.  That has been corrected in earlier posts.  Sorry for that.

Is it Claire Chenault or Claire Chennault as stated earlier?   

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by John Butler

[John Butler]

William R. Chenault newspaper article on death:

And,

On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2020 at 7:55 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

 

Mildred W. Chenault Truly

Rest in Peace. Daughter of William R. Chenault who was 1st cousin of famed WWII & CIA-affiliated Flying Tigers Gen. Claire Chennault. Her branch of the family spelled their surname with one "n" rather than two.

U.S. Census Records do not support either of the two newspaper articles as outlined earlier. 

I can only conclude this family connection was something that the Chenault family thought was true in their relationship to the Chennault family, in particular Claire L. Chennault. 

The only record I could find for a Claire Chenault is a ship record:

This is assumed to be Claire L. Chennault based on similar id characteristics.

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by John Butler

[James DiEugenio]

Parker Replies:

Jim,

 

the fixation that they have about "first" cousin is the problem.  Yes, whoever did the find-a-grave commentary appears to have goofed by making an assumption based on the newspaper report. I made the same wrong assumption. 

But the actual evidence is not what someone said on find-a-grave. The evidence is two separate newspaper reports which simply say "cousin" without specifying any further. That information was either given to the newspapers by the family, or it was published from common local knowledge. 

 

 

As you can see, he work at Chance Vought during WWII - so that is Roy Truly, his father-in-law and his friend Shelley all working in defense plants. Up until 1950, William also held annual family reunions. Did the General attend those? Maybe someone with the time and patience could check the  social columns in old Dallas papers?

William was a WWI veteran who was in the isolationist camp leading into WWII
 

[James DiEugenio]

Here is another revision by Greg:

The different spellings of Chennault started in 1895 - but it is all one family. And Claire Chennault attended at least one of the family reunions which included family members from both spellings. William and the General WERE indeed COUSINS - just as the news articles stated.
 

 

If you can't read the second one, the relevant parts are basically that

the family became divided over the two "n" vs one "n" 

Claire Chennault was coming over from China for the family reunion.

Bill Chenault (Mildred Truly's father) was the family historian and the person charged with keeping ALL the Chennaults AND Chenaults updated on family doings and get-togethers.

I would strongly believe that Mildred and Roy Truly would have attended these reunions as Roy I think would want to rub shoulders with the likes of the general.