The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Cliff Varnell]

49 minutes ago, Douglas Caddy said:

I am with you on this. Paul. Furthermore, the first two primaries were in Iowa and New Hampshire that have small black populations and have a dominant white population that is not that familiar with black persons.

Obama creamed Clinton in Iowa in 08.

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That put highly qualified black candidates for the Democratic presidential nomination in a situation where they could not win and thus lost momentum to get the nomination.

Kamala Harris dropped out on December 3 and Cory Booker bailed on January 13.

Don’t blame Iowa and New Hampshire!

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I would have supported these black candidates over Biden who in my opinion is a weak candidate and will be less than a mediocre president if elected.

Only if we do a less than mediocre job of forcing him to do the right things.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Cliff Varnell

[Paul Brancato]

Yes Cliff - it was the fortuitous timing two days before Super Tuesday. Might not have mattered, but it was clearly coordinated. Warren didn’t drop out at that time if memory serves. I agree it’s up to us progressives, and maybe we have a chance, but we all know who and what we are up against. I know a lot of good liberals who want progressive things but don’t believe that we can win elections that way. What I think is that this is a meme, repeated over and over, buttressed by members of the press who serve ‘special’ interests, designed to keep us from uniting. Issue by issue the country is progressive in its views, and that is why the Republican White man Party is fighting so dirty. If consensus will ever produce anything of real value to the working class it can only be by engaging the ruling class electorally. Incremental change is no longer enough, as it can be eroded from inside and out. Democrats have to see through the politics of division and unite behind core humanitarian values, and move the electoral center of gravity. 

[Ron Bulman]

On 6/13/2020 at 10:56 PM, Ron Bulman said:

He was shot for pointing a taser?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/live-updates-wendys-where-rayshard-brooks-was-killed-engulfed-in-flames/ar-BB15rBZx?li=BBnb7Kz

This gets worse as more of the story comes out.  Shot in the back twice, one bullet hits the heart.  Then instead of trying to say stop the bleeding he's kicked and has his shoulders stood on.   No wonder some blacks hate or fear all whites.  I don't know if Georgia has a death penalty, if not put him in prison, turn him loose in general population.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/rayshard-brooks-was-kicked-denied-medical-care-the-stunning-allegations-against-ex-atlanta-police-officer-garrett-rolfe/ar-BB15D7iN?li=BBnb7Kz

[Kirk Gallaway]

In these last couple of pages, Jim Di has made an assertion that Trump will crucify Biden for the 1994 Crime Bill. Berube  backs up Jim and said Biden will be crushed on the race issue. (against Trump?) Joe talks of how it was the Bloomberg candidacy that destroyed Sanders and Warren. These are like assertions that happen here that I often let slide. Cliff has undertaken to attack everyone of these premises and in all cases he's right.

Joe, the more I read of your Bloomberg hypothesis,the more I disagreed. And it was so elaborate. It's an idea you get in your head. Bloomberg had no illusions about siphoning off votes from Sanders or Warren, and he said so. He was going   down the  moderate center to replace Biden. He got into the debate realizing he had to be conciliatory as the Johnnie come lately on the scene who if he was to be successful would need to pull parts of the party together, so he didn't want to alienate anybody and he got taken apart by Elizabeth Warren.Though it could never be as pathetic as Billionaire Howard Schultz of Starbucks who in his first few weeks actually had his candidacy destroyed by one heckler! Those results are the nature of the Democratic Party, though not necessarily the DNC.

Paul's assertions were the most correct. If Biden had gone to Buttigieg, Klobuchar, and Beto and said. "Hey I'm closer philosophically to you, and you feel as I do, that Bernie and Elizabeth can't win, and you know now you're not going to win. You'll be in much better standing to your party if you back out now, and support me and that will help your aspirations for the Presidency in the future". Personally, If Biden had done that,  I'd say more power to him, that's what an executive politician does. The fact that the party did it,  for me, soils it a bit.

That's why George Washington was down on parties. The R's and D's are really brands. But still if Sanders got a clear majority, they have to go along with it. But when it got down to it,  Cliff is right, the endorsements didn't matter much. As sad as it may be to some of us, People had been thinking about it a long time and decided they didn't want to take the chance and they played it safe.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Kirk Gallaway

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

Yes Cliff - it was the fortuitous timing two days before Super Tuesday. Might not have mattered, but it was clearly coordinated.

The DNC is a vastly over-rated villain.

Buttigieg and Klobuchar were broke.

 https://heavy.com/news/2020/03/what-happens-campaign-funds-candidate-drops-out/

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

I do see the vulnerability to Bernie's candidacy. He seems a little obsessive to the everyday person. A little too serious, doesn't want to talk about baseball. He pounds home a few points very well, but does every reiteration further help to solidify him in everyday people's minds? Of course, he calls himself a democratic socialist. Which doesn't turn me off, but it is a turn off to the average middle aged or older person. I think he was very proud of that label when he started out in politics, because he never thought he'd ever be a serious candidate for the Presidency.

What he could have done before Super Tuesday that I think would have helped him a lot as far as redefining  who he was,  is what Micheal Dukakis could have done. Bill Clinton wouldn't have done it but Barack Obama might have fared better if he had done it, but he won, so he didn't need to do it.  Joe  Biden could do it now, if he's serious about really seizing the moment and being an activist President. He can just say, " I want to bring back the "Democrat New Deal policies of Franklin Roosevelt".

Edited June 18, 2020 by Kirk Gallaway

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks for that Ron.

I agree with you, the more that comes out on this the worse it gets.

[Ron Bulman]

It get's worse than this.  In case anyone missed the link above.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/rayshard-brooks-was-kicked-denied-medical-care-the-stunning-allegations-against-ex-atlanta-police-officer-garrett-rolfe/ar-BB15D7iN?li=BBnb7Kz

This afternoon I read another article I just searched through three pages of MSN links about Garrett Rolfe and it's already gone with the above news.  It was about Rolfe being involved in another shooting sometime over a year or so ago.  Three officers involved, a (black) man who stole a truck was shot through the lung.  Nothing about it in any of their reports.  The final report mentions the guy was injured, he got a year in prison and probation.  He was speaking up in the article saying he had complained hoping it might stop it from happening again but it fell on deaf ears.  Swept under the rug.

Rolfe also had I think three other complaints against him in six (?) years on the force, all dismissed so to speak.

[Kirk Gallaway]

Revelations from Bolton's Book:

1. Trump pleaded with China to help win the 2020 election

According to the excerpt of Bolton’s book published by the Wall Street Journal, Trump asked China to use its economic power to help him win a second election.

In one instance, Trump and President Xi Jinping were discussing hostility to China in the US. “Trump then, stunningly, turned the conversation to the coming US presidential election, alluding to China’s economic capability and pleading with Xi to ensure he’d win,” Bolton writes. “He stressed the importance of farmers and increased Chinese purchases of soybeans and wheat in the electoral outcome. I would print Trump’s exact words, but the government’s prepublication review process has decided otherwise.”

2. Trump suggested he was open to serving more than two terms

In another eye-opening exchange published in the Wall Street Journal, Trump also seems to support Xi’s idea of eliminating presidential term limits. “Xi said he wanted to work with Trump for six more years, and Trump replied that people were saying that the two-term constitutional limit on presidents should be repealed for him,” Bolton writes. “Xi said the US had too many elections, because he didn’t want to switch away from Trump, who nodded approvingly.”

3. Trump offered favors to dictators

Bolton’s book reportedly details cases where Trump tried to kill criminal investigations as favors to dictators. One incident published in the Washington Post includes a 2018 discussion with the Turkish president, Recep Erdoğan. Bolton says Erdoğan gave Trump a memo claiming that a Turkish firm under investigation in the US was innocent. “Trump then told Erdoğan he would take care of things, explaining that the southern district prosecutors were not his people, but were Obama people, a problem that would be fixed when they were replaced by his people.”

4. Trump praised President Xi for China’s concentration camps

According to Bolton, Trump was also approving when Xi defended China’s internment of Uighur Muslims in concentration camps. “According to our interpreter,” Bolton writes, “Trump said that Xi should go ahead with building the camps, which Trump thought was exactly the right thing to do.” According to leaked Communist party documents published in November, at least 1 million Uighur Muslims are detained in the camps.

5. Trump defended Saudi Arabia to distract from a story about Ivanka

Trump made headlines in November 2018 when he released a bizarre statement defending the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman over the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. It included lines such as “The world is a very dangerous place!” and “maybe he did and maybe he didn’t!”

According to Bolton’s book, making headlines was the point. A story about his daughter Ivanka using her personal email for government business was also in the news at the time. After waging war on Hilary Clinton during the 2016 campaign for doing the same thing, Trump need a distraction.

“This will divert from Ivanka,” Trump reportedly said. “If I read the statement in person, that will take over the Ivanka thing.”

6. Trump’s top staff mocked him behind his back

From what has been reported, it sounds like Bolton’s book provides one of the clearest insights into the despair of Trump’s top officials behind the scenes.

In one example given by the New York Times, Bolton claims he received a note from the secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, after Trump’s 2018 meeting with North Korea’s Kim Jong-un, simply saying, “He is so full of s**t.” On top of this, Pompeo also allegedly said a month later that Trump’s diplomatic efforts with North Korea had “zero probability of success”.

7. Trump thought Finland was part of Russia

Bolton’s book reportedly details some giant holes in Trump’s knowledge. In one instance, Bolton says Trump didn’t seem to know basic knowledge about the UK, asking its former prime minister Theresa May: “Oh, are you a nuclear power?”. On top of this, he also alleges that Trump once asked if Finland was part of Russia, and repeatedly mixed up the current and former presidents of Afghanistan.

8. Trump thought it would be ‘cool’ to invade Venezuela

According to the Washington Post, Bolton claims Trump said invading Venezuela would be “cool”, and that the country was “really part of the United States”.

[James DiEugenio]

You saw what happened right?  Mass sick in by the cops tonight. 

These Protective Leagues are just that.  

[Ron Ecker]

Donald Trump, COVID-19, and a fractured society. The perfect storm. I think we're living in the decline and fall of America. Some descendant of Edward Gibbon will write a book about it.

 

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

If he's above the legal limit, it is within their discretion to arrest him. I haven't seen the whole tape. But it's my understanding, the encounter was 40 minutes long and they gave him a breathe test after 20 minutes.

That's not unusual for cops in such a situation to grill somebody for a long period of time,  just waiting for that one bad response. Then there becomes a resentment that he's made it so far without blowing it. So they test him. Talk with him some  more, get his hopes up. And then a sort of perverse joy of cuffing him and saying " Hey, you're not that bad, yes you could probably drive home safely, but tough luck, you lose!"

Edited June 18, 2020 by Kirk Gallaway

[Ron Ecker]

One night long ago in Atlanta I had trouble parking my car in front of my apartment because of too much liquid refreshment. Two cops happened to be across the street on some kind of call. They saw my difficulty and called me over to them when I got out of my car. They questioned me and I admitted that I had been drinking. I told them that all I wanted to do was go into my apartment and sleep it off. One of the cops asked the other one, "What do you think we should do with him?" Then I made my mistake. I said, "Let's decide something one way or the other." And the cop said, "Okay, let's take him in." That night was my one and only ride in a paddy wagon.

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Ron Ecker

[James DiEugenio]

Well, what happened? Did they throw you in the cooler?

[Ron Ecker]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Well, what happened? Did they throw you in the cooler?

Briefly. A friend (who was just as drunk as I was) bailed me out. When I went to court the judge fined me $500. And I can attest that anyone who drives under the influence after one arrest for it is an idiot. Of course it's actually idiotic even before an arrest.