Jeff Carter Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Kirk Gallaway said: Jeff said:The opportunity for a New Deal / progressive platform to reassert itself in light of the dominant corporatist DNC wing thoroughly discrediting itself. So the dominant corporatist DNC wing discrediting itself by doing what? How could that be a more likely "opportunity" as result of a Trump Presidency? To hear you tell it, the corporate wing of the DNC did do that pursuing "Russia gate", and got discredited, but that didn't happen. A lot of myths there Jeff. About the New Deal Progressive Platform, The only thing that will make that happen would be a grass roots movement of the Democratic base. Actually a transformation of the Democratic Party is much more feasible than the Republicans. Trump hasn't transformed the party at all. The Republicans are completely split, and ready to bail should Trump lose. The Republican base has always been corporate. The Trump ''disenfranchised' voter is hardly represented in numbers in Congress at all. Another conspiracy myth, is the power of the DNC. Yes Wasserman Schultz got in the way of Bernie. But HC had a majority of the delegates. The heads of the party apparatus often change after every major election, particularly if they lose. I think there have been a few here perpetuating a myth. The party apparatus is not another "Deep State" Jeff. If a candidate like Bernie got the most delegates by a clear majority. The party would be helpless to oppose it, just like the RNC was with Trump. Nothing you say here conforms in any way to the established factual record. I am now convinced you are an AI bot, programmed to sow division and confusion. The head tilt in your picture should have given it away. Perhaps you are from the Internet Research Agency, no? Bob N should get on the case right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Carter Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: I’m shocked by the degree Jeff reflects ignorance of American politics! In 2018 the DNC voted to allow no super-delegate votes on the first ballot. https://ballotpedia.org/Superdelegates_and_the_2020_Democratic_National_Convention Advocates for reducing superdelegate influence Tom Perez, DNC chairman: "Today is a historic day for our party. We passed major reforms that will not only put our next presidential nominee in the strongest position possible, but will help us elect Democrats up and down the ballot, across the country. These reforms will help grow our party, unite Democrats, and restore voters' trust by making our 2020 nominating process the most inclusive and transparent in our history."[9] Michael Blake, vice chair of the DNC: "This is not disenfranchisement at all. The person that has their vote taken away and has been purged—that's the person we need to be fighting for. Voters want us to be listening to them, and this is a way to show that we are listening—to show that we are understanding the changes that had to be made after 2016."[10] Jeff Cohen, RootsAction co-founder: "It’s a big victory for the base of the party. Tom Perez realizes that he’d rather lose 10 dead-enders in the DNC than a couple million activists."[11] Cliff - two words: Biden Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Joe Bauer said: True. But both destroy your liver and cognitive abilities equally. I'll match my liver agin your'n. Edited September 17, 2020 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Jeff Carter said: Cliff - two words: Biden Harris Two more words: black women. Black people have been picking the Dem nominee at least since 2008, and black females are the activist backbone of the party. Biden was shellacked in Iowa, New Hampshire, and Nevada going into the South Carolina primary. He was broke. But So. Carolina Congressman Jim Clyburn came out with impassioned support for Biden. Biden racked up a huge victory and proceeded to swamp Bernie going forward with overwhelming support from black female activists. How many corporatist Super Delegates voted? Zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 (edited) Tomorrow night on Len Osanic's Black Op Radio, I wind up with a reply to Carl Long's question to me about the fate of Kennedy vs the fate of Trump. So I talk about Trump's background in light of two best selling books on him, one by Mary Trump--dealing with his family and his father's role in his life, and one by Michael Cohen, dealing with his personal life and business practices. I talk a little about his presidency and why I think the Power Elite has decided to veto him. And if The Economist poll is correct, its working. Edited September 17, 2020 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Carter Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said: Two more words: black women. Black people have been picking the Dem nominee at least since 2008, and black females are the activist backbone of the party. Biden was shellacked in Iowa, New Hampshire, and Nevada going into the South Carolina primary. He was broke. But So. Carolina Congressman Jim Clyburn came out with impassioned support for Biden. Biden racked up a huge victory and proceeded to swamp Bernie going forward with overwhelming support from black female activists. How many corporatist Super Delegates voted? Zero. Pure revisionism. Biden’s South Carolina victory was meaningless vis-a-vis delegates or momentum. Sanders was poised to win huge on Super Tuesday, and this was prevented only by an extraordinary intervention by Dem Party brass to shut down Buttgieg and Klobuchar’s campaigns the day before, in interest of coalescing behind acceptable placeholder Biden. The Super Tuesday exit polls also revealed an 8% swing in favor of Biden and similar number depressing Sanders totals. Believe what you want, but you are still stuck with the world as it i, not as you wish it would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said: Pure revisionism. Biden’s South Carolina victory was meaningless vis-a-vis delegates or momentum. Sanders was poised to win huge on Super Tuesday, and this was prevented only by an extraordinary intervention by Dem Party brass to shut down Buttgieg and Klobuchar’s campaigns the day before, in interest of coalescing behind acceptable placeholder Biden. The Super Tuesday exit polls also revealed an 8% swing in favor of Biden and similar number depressing Sanders totals. Believe what you want, but you are still stuck with the world as it i, not as you wish it would be. I had this debate with Cliff too. I think it was party machinations that propelled Biden. But I also agree with Cliff about Jim Clyburn being a catalyst and about black women voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 (edited) I don't think the party endorsements had much to do with anything outside of a few small states. Biden ended up winning 2600 delegates to Sanders 1000, and doubled Bernie's popular vote total! I do think Klobuchar and Buttigieg dropping out definitely gave Minnesota and Indiana to Biden. But they're small potatoes. California didn't flinch for Sanders. Biden carried the South. Massachusetts goes for Biden over Warren? I think the Northeast just decided to go back to their provincial ways. It was sudden, I didn't like it, but it continued. I think the Democratic electorate just chickened out, and bought the idea of being more sure and going for the moderate who had no "socialist" baggage and defected from Sanders. Edited September 17, 2020 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jeff Carter said: Pure revisionism. Biden’s South Carolina victory was meaningless vis-a-vis delegates or momentum. So you say. So the fact no Dem nominee has won without a majority of the black vote since 1988 registers not at all with you? Quote Sanders was poised to win huge on Super Tuesday, and this was prevented only by an extraordinary intervention by Dem Party brass to shut down Buttgieg and Klobuchar’s campaigns the day before, in interest of coalescing behind acceptable placeholder Biden. What were Klobuchar and Buttigieg’s numbers in the first four races? In four races (three in more heavily white States) Buttigieg gained 17% of the total vote. In Iowa 25.1%, in New Hampshire 24.3%, in Nevada 17.3, in So. Carolina 8.2%. In Iowa Klobuchar got 12.2%, in New Hampshire 19.7%, in Nevada 7.3%, in So. Carolina 3.1%. And it took “extraordinary intervention by the Dem party” to point out the obvious that the air was coming out of their campaigns, they had no path forward? Utter nonsense! It’s common for flailing candidates to drop out. You can cite no evidence of “extraordinary intervention” by the DNC. It’s something you just made up to negate the lead role blacks play in Dem nominations. Quote The Super Tuesday exit polls also revealed an 8% swing in favor of Biden and similar number depressing Sanders totals. Buttigieg and Klobuchar stayed on the ballots and both received single digit percentages. I guess Bernie forgot to complain about it. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/bernie-sanders-drops-out-presidential-race-n1155156 Quote Believe what you want, but you are still stuck with the world as it i, not as you wish it would be. Bernie couldn’t pull in the black vote in 2016 or 2020. Your assertions otherwise are pure fiction. Edited September 17, 2020 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 (edited) 8 days before the March 1 drop out date for Buttigieg and Klobuchar: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/21/fec-bernie-2020-funding-116558 Warren, Biden and Buttigieg dangerously close to going broke Joe Biden, Pete Buttigieg, Amy Klobuchar and Elizabeth Warren each started the month scraping perilously close to the bottom of their campaign bank accounts, posing an existential threat to their candidacies as the Democratic primary goes national. </q> Without James Clyburn’s endorsement and Biden’s black support he loses So. Carolina and drops out just like Buttigieg and Klobuchar. Pure political gravity that should be regarded as Politics 101. Edited September 17, 2020 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 Cohen says Trump fears he will be indicted on income tax fraud https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/michael-cohen-says-trump-is-afraid-hell-end-up-facing-tax-fraud-charges/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Carter Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 "Looking For Obama's Hidden Hand In Candidates Coalescing Around Biden" https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/looking-obama-s-hidden-hand-candidate-coalescing-around-biden-n1147471 Obama made the call to Buttgieg. Harry Reed called Klobuchar. Both then dropped out within hours of each other. The "coalescence" around Biden was directed from the top of the Party, not any momentum swinging event or Biden surge. Sanders had all the momentum , the largest most enthusiastic crowds, and then suddenly - poof. Very strange. But not as strange as, according to Cliff, the black female activist bloc being responsible for ensuring the most right-wing Democrat ticket in a hundred years. I guess the New Deal is truly dead. I suppose next you see the teacher's unions join BLM to demand an end to social security and the privatization of all public infrastructure. That should create unstoppable momentum across the base and bring in all the young people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Jeff Carter said: "Looking For Obama's Hidden Hand In Candidates Coalescing Around Biden" https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/looking-obama-s-hidden-hand-candidate-coalescing-around-biden-n1147471 Obama made the call to Buttgieg. Harry Reed called Klobuchar. Both then dropped out within hours of each other. So it took Obama and Reed to point out to Buttigieg and Klobuchar that they didn’t have any money to spend on ten Super Tuesday primaries and neither had shown any strength among non-white voters? What a crock! 1 hour ago, Jeff Carter said: The "coalescence" around Biden was directed from the top of the Party, not any momentum swinging event or Biden surge. Sanders had all the momentum , the largest most enthusiastic crowds, and then suddenly - poof. Very strange. Not strange at all. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/05/super-tuesday-black-voters-analysis-recap Biden’s comeback was delivered in some measure by strong support from older, black voters, primarily in the south. Exit polls from Super Tuesdayshow he won 63% of black Democratic voters casting their ballots in Virginia, 72% in Alabama and about 60% in Texas and North Carolina. </q> Biden won 38% of black voter in CA, Sanders 18%. In MA, Biden got 36%, Sanders 29%. In MN, Biden at 47% & Sanders 43%. While Bernie did well among younger blacks in the North, it wasn’t enough to overcome Biden’s support among older blacks, who are more reliable voters. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/what-does-the-history-of-black-primary-voting-say-about-20.html 1 hour ago, Jeff Carter said: But not as strange as, according to Cliff, the black female activist bloc being responsible for ensuring the most right-wing Democrat ticket in a hundred years. You’ve long demonstrated an aversion to facts, Jeff, why would this be any different? https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2020-07-08/biden-sanders-release-progressive-unity-platform-for-democratic-party 1 hour ago, Jeff Carter said: I guess the New Deal is truly dead. I suppose next you see the teacher's unions join BLM to demand an end to social security and the privatization of all public infrastructure. Those have been the dreams of the GOP for years. Since you know very little of American politics your ignorance is understandable. 1 hour ago, Jeff Carter said: That should create unstoppable momentum across the base and bring in all the young people. Sure, Jeff. Anything you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fite Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Robert Wheeler said: The whole appeal of Trump in the 2016 Republican primaries was that he was not an insider. He was not another Bush. Sanders strong performance in 2016 and 2020 was for the same reason. He was not another Clinton or Biden. For all practical purposes, Obama was an outsider in the 2008 primaries running against the chosen inevitable nominee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 What’s at Stake in This Election? The American Democratic Experiment Congress should establish a bipartisan commission to monitor voting and ensure that laws and regulations are followed. By Dan Coats Mr. Coats served as the director of national intelligence from 2017 to 2019. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/17/opinion/2020-election-voting.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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