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The inevitable end result of our last 56 years


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13 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

You know I'm from California.

When I do get out, I don't see anyone not wearing a mask.

Even idle walkers, dog walkers and joggers.

Our downtowns are practically deserted. The restaurants are totally shut down. Theaters months ago.

This is a tourist area and the hotels are nearly empty and what few tourists are on the streets are all wearing masks.

I know in the larger urban areas of the state it is harder for residents to distance, but it seems like most of them are now wearing masks.

Yet, the virus is spreading faster than when hardly anyone were wearing masks!

Hugely so! 

Everyone still has to buy groceries. I have heard that spreading is happening in that environment more than any other now.

But still, I sense this massive increase in spreading is due to something more than too many not wearing masks, washing their hands and distancing.

Could we also be under a more virulent and more easily spread virus strain like the UK?

How come Africa hasn't gone ballistic in the virus spread? In the most ill-prepared and greatest medical supply shortage area of the world, you would think Covid would be raging!

 

Hey Joe, there are many variables why the winter months are always going to be worse, some of the reasons are akin to flu & common colds are worse in the winter months, there was always going to be a spike. From what I can see, Californians are right up there with those who have taken things most sensibly. You also have a high population compared to some other states. And looking at the most densely populated US cities, New York seems to lead that but, California has lots of densely populated areas too, which will no doubt contribute to the issue. We also have to get your head around how many people have had it and been unaware, as it's around 90% asymptomatic and how many people are carrying it now, untested. Another good question might be, is if this reported more virulent strain is bouncing about, does the vaccine work on it? Or will we need another vaccine? I agree with you, there are lots of anomalies, including Africa and why was it such a slower burner in India where I was based, it eventually caught up, though medical staff informed me it was only the elderly or those with serious underlying health conditions in their hospital beds. 
Considering the deluge of press covering Covid 19, it's difficult for the public to actually get a grasp on what is happening and a balanced perspective. Do I think people should be eating healthy, getting vitamin D, exercising and doing everything humanly possible to keep their immune system at its peak, yes. Do I think most people are that cooped up at home doing no exercise, drinking alcohol and enjoying sugar filled diet, yes. 
Do I think the stress of facing unemployment or losing businesses that have taken sometimes decades to build is killing people, yes. Do I think increased debt is causing the same stress, yes. Do I think people with potentially serious health conditions are avoiding getting check ups and visiting hospitals and Dr's surgeries because they are afraid of catching Covid, yes. Do I think that this leading to lots of deaths related to depression and poor mental health, yes. 
At least when I last looked, the % of the population in which Covid is fatal was around 0.07-0.03%. I understand the argument that if we are overwhelmed at medical facilities, then more deaths will occur but, we also have to put those percentages against other causes of death around the world and weigh up the risk. My father is 74, he's had cancer, a stroke, a cardiac arrest, is constantly is experiencing blood poisoning too, he is basically immobile. If he gets Covid or any bad flu, it will likely be the last time I see him. But, I can still look at this thing objectively, I can still see that this corn fructose syrup we are dosing all of our food up with his fuelling heart disease, cancer, strokes, diabetes and other conditions which lead to a significantly reduced life expectancy and yet governments and media outlets are mostly silent on it. Is corn fructose syrup killing more people than Covid, absolutely. Where is the outrage in the media & at government level over am addictive substance being put in our food and cutting peoples lives short? 
Another thing which needs to be calculated is how many people die every day in a country, vs how many people are dying now Covid is present. We need to assess that information to make an informed decision. For example, 1400 people die in the UK every day, that's been the average for some time (office of national statistics). A large proportion of those people are very frail individuals, either because of old age or because of serious underlying health conditions (like my father). Some of these deaths are drug related, homicides, road accidents and everything else. We need to have some perspective on how many of those deaths are old age/very frail individuals, as just about anything could kill them including a cold that develops into worse conditions. The concept that Covid is ripping through healthy communities and taking people in their prime is false. Some young people are dying, but, plenty of people don't even know they are walking about with undiagnosed serious health issues, which leaves them very vulnerable to any attacks on their immune system. 

It's my opinion that a balanced perspective is needed, it will effect me / family either way but, what is the lesser of two evils and what is the pragmatic course forward? 

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1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

Re: Oregon - we needed uprising some time ago over the failure to provide Covid relief since September.  The public reticence would seem to be because people unemployed by Covid would tend to be people who follow social norms and who want their livelihoods back, and thus are less likely to complain or demonstrate.  #BLM and electoral result protest, on the other hand, cross the categories of economic circumstance.

I wonder how many people at Trump rallies and election protests were among the unemployed?  Get much for your effort?

Edited by David Andrews
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I'm sorry, but the only conclusion to the long debate over stimulus aid and the White House refusal to provide emergency aid to the states after September can be that Congress and the Executive want to force people off unemployment assistance and create chaos in America:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/millions-could-face-unemployment-aid-delays-even-after-covid-19-relief-package/ar-BB1c5S9j?li=BBnbfcL

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1 hour ago, David Andrews said:

I'm sorry, but the only conclusion to the long debate over stimulus aid and the White House refusal to provide emergency aid to the states after September can be that Congress and the Executive want to force people off unemployment assistance and create chaos in America:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/millions-could-face-unemployment-aid-delays-even-after-covid-19-relief-package/ar-BB1c5S9j?li=BBnbfcL

David,

      Is "corporatocracy" a word?   It seems like everything Mitch McConnell has ever done during his tenure in the Senate has been done for the primary benefit of the Koch brothers, often at the expense of the public good.  The man is utterly corrupt, and, obviously, contemptuous of the working poor-- which is strange, considering that many of his own constituents are among the most impoverished people in the country.

      McConnell and his GOP cronies seem like Social Darwinists from the Gilded Age.  They probably think that working class Americans on the brink of homelessness won't work if they get a stimulus check!

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1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

David,

      Is "corporatocracy" a word?   It seems like everything Mitch McConnell has ever done during his tenure in the Senate has been done for the primary benefit of the Koch brothers, often at the expense of the public good.  The man is utterly corrupt, and, obviously, contemptuous of the working poor-- which is strange, considering that many of his own constituents are among the most impoverished people in the country.

      McConnell and his GOP cronies seem like Social Darwinists from the Gilded Age.  They probably think that working class Americans on the brink of homelessness won't work if they get a stimulus check!

Yes, but there could have been a Democratic compromise or another Executive Order in October or November.  Why wasn't there?

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1 hour ago, David Andrews said:

Yes, but there could have been a Democratic compromise or another Executive Order in October or November.  Why wasn't there?

The Pelosi-McConnell stare down ended in a draw.  

The Democrats took the worst of it politically when Pelosi didn’t take a smaller deal pre-election.

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Yeah, Cliff. the figures were so numbing I could be wrong. But wasn't Pelosi asking for 3+ trillion originally but when the rubber hit the road,  it got down to, I believe Pelosi and the Dems were at 2.1 trillion and Mnuchin and the Repubs were at 1.9 trillion? Pelosi obviously overplayed her hand thinking there would be a massive Dem sweep. But if that happened, she could have settled for that in October and do another package in February! But people needed the money then!

It still could have been killed by Mac Connell, but at least the ball would have been in Mac Connell's court. But  with Mac Connell's willingness to come up with something now, it looks like he would have blinked in October and negotiated something then.

Now she's settled for a 900 billion dollar package. Her only hope of not having peaked out would be for the Dems to win both Georgia races.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Richard Price said:

Straight talk people had better start heeding.  YouTube - Keith Olberman - again.

OLBERMANN VS. TRUMP #41: REP. MO BROOKS CONFIRMS: COUP PLOTTERS MET AT WHITE HOUSE WITH TRUMP, PENCE

I found it on YouTube easily enough. I couldn’t agree more. Mr. Nice guy ain’t gonna work. Btw I’m sick of pundits repeating the mantra that the Dems will control the Senate if they win both Georgia Senatorial runoffs. It just ain’t true. They could control the Senate in that case, but they won’t hold together on anything remotely progressive. 
I think David is right, if I’m understanding his point, when he points out the lack of political will, despite the rhetoric, of Democrats in the House. The compromise deal isn’t anywhere near enough, and waiting until after the election was cynical, and reveals some deep lack of concern for the working class. I know from personal experience that Nancy Pelosi is elitist, and that goes for many of her colleagues too. I’ve met John Kerry twice, and can paint him with the same elitist brush. 

Edited by Paul Brancato
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my take is...That's true Paul, But despite what people say they want in polls, people don't vote in their interests.. The election was a repudiation of the left and progressivism.

Then there's this thinking after the  2016 Hilary Bernie debacle  that that the DNC is all powerful. But the truth is, the posts in the  DNC change all the time. I would have preferred Keith Ellison , but I don't think it mattered. The DNC  had preferences, but were willing to accept whoever the winner was. As all the parties do, if it's Barry Goldwater or George Mc Govern or Donald Trump. People had been thinking for 4 long years if they were ready for a Bernie Presidency, and then on Super Tuesday they finally decided "no".  Abandoned by his own region, the North East, weak on minority support. Though perfectly serviceable out West.

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1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:


I think David is right, if I’m understanding his point, when he points out the lack of political will, despite the rhetoric, of Democrats in the House. The compromise deal isn’t anywhere near enough, and waiting until after the election was cynical, and reveals some deep lack of concern for the working class.

I think it's worse than lack of will.  My perception is that Congress and the current Executive chose to run out the clock on aid for October-November 2020, and for January 2021 as well.  The negotiations were a collusive staged farce.

Federal unemployment insurance funding by Executive Order ran out in September in most states.  Renewed benefits under the stimulus bill may not be available until mid-January.  In the meantime, many people - some of whom are in their 50s and 60s - will have to sink or swim in terms of taking economically unsuitable jobs to tide themselves over, or else default on debts, rent or mortgages, etc.

Federal and state money will be "saved" by forcing people into low-paying work, reducing the amount of dole or equalizing funding to accommodate new unemployment cases.  Long-term low paying work, however, will not be a solution for many people's financial obligations.

Edited by David Andrews
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