The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Joe Bauer]

7 hours ago, David Andrews said:

 

As soon as American money stopped flowing into their pockets, the army walked away.

The only loyalty we get from these people is what we can buy.

[Douglas Caddy]

The New Yorker magazine writer who wrote the biography of Joe Biden said on CNN today that the real number of hostages friendly to the U.S. that are still in Afghanistan is 200,000. 

Then there is this:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/taliban-show-off-captured-weapons-at-kandahar-victory-parade/ar-AANYCOi

[Kirk Gallaway]

10 hours ago, Douglas Caddy said:

Kirk:

My primary interest in Biden's debacle in Afghanistan is not the political price all Democratic House and Senate candidates in 2022 and 2024 will pay for what he has done  (as the Republican congressional candidates in 1974 paid for what Nixon had done.)

My interest is the geopolitical ramifications of his actions. I was graduated in 1960 from the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University. My B.S. degree was in international relations. I was trained to become a foreign service officer. At the school I was the editor of the Foreign Service Courier, the student publication. I studied under the famed Professor Carroll Quigley who taught Civilization I and II. Clinton followed my graduation by enrolling in the School of Foreign Service seven years later. When he was president each year he returned to Georgetown U. to give a lecture in honor of Prof. Quigley.

I did not go into the foreign service but instead enrolled in New York University Law School where I got my J.D. degree.

In my opinion America and the free would will pay heavily in geopolitics for what Biden had done. In his speech yesterday he claimed he had ended the "Forever War." Then he went on to declare a new war, this one on terrorists who threaten America. Here is one geopolitical example of how this may backfire. The Taliban, ISIS-k and other terrorist groups that will now inhabit and control Afghanistan will proclaim that for every member of their organization that is killed by drone strike or otherwise, one of the 60,000 hostages that Biden left behind in Afghanistan will be killed along with his/her family members in retaliation. These hostages are our friends, our interpreters, our supporters and Biden's incompetent withdrawal left them behind, along with an unknown number of Americans. 

The Taliban boast that they defeated the world's greatest superpower. 

China now knows it can move against Taiwan. The terrorists now know they can move against America's homeland, maybe as proxies for China and Russia. 

Tony Blair was correct when he said that Biden's action was imbecilic.

Doug

I'm not sure if subsequent posts were pro staying in Afghanistan or not , but I'll try to address what Doug's saying.

 

Doug: In my opinion America and the free would will pay heavily in geopolitics for what Biden had done. In his speech yesterday he claimed he had ended the "Forever War."

Ok, so what do you propose? Are you making the argument we should stay indefinitely because after all it's only 20-30 billion a year to employ a small force of 2500 who keep things reasonably stable in at least Kabul?

Doug: In my opinion America and the free would will pay heavily in geopolitics for what Biden had done. In his speech yesterday he claimed he had ended the "Forever War." Then he went on to declare a new war, this one on terrorists who threaten America.

But that's not a new war, presumably isn't that what we say we've been doing for the last 20 years? But we  don't know the working reality of that statement. He's done the deed and how do we know he's not just trying to assure the hawks that America just won't roll over in the future. We don't know how much commitment that statement entails.

RE New Yorker article:200,000 people Doug?  So we're a lot better at making friends than I ever thought we were! So we owe it to everybody whoever co operated with us? I'm not going to trust the Taliban , but is there any point in them seeking reprisals on 200,000 people? They've got a country to run and have to understand to keep it from crumbling they are going to need some cooperation from world community.

Doug: China now knows it can move against Taiwan. The terrorists now know they can move against America's homeland, maybe as proxies for China and Russia. 

I'm not sure what you mean specifically by the Middle East terrorists moving against the U.S in our homeland as proxies, but we certainly can't be sure to be safe , from terrorist attacks based within the U.S..

China moving against Taiwan is the big one, isn't it? But of course Taiwan has the "silicon shield" . In some senses Taiwan Semi conductor has the  whole world hostage and if it was, for any reason, to stop production, the world would be shut down. So they hold some chips against a Chinese invasion.

Of course, you have an impressive resume Doug. I've won a couple of Mandarin Speech contests and was considering being an interpreter many years ago, but decided i didn't want to go that route. But it did leave me some knowledge about the Chinese culture. This could sound Pollyanneish , but they've had a long history of being invaded but not being an imperialist power. They seem to be intent on taking over the world economically using far less weapons and bombs than our history shows we have. We'll see if that's where history's trending. We largely gave them Hong Kong. But in the meantime,let's hope we'll l be hearing mostly a lot of saber rattling about them taking over some largely uninhabited South Seas Islands.

 

 

[Douglas Caddy]

From the Overnight Report from The Hill:

American and Afghan allies left behind in Afghanistan have entered a fraught and uncertain period of limbo following the definitive conclusion of U.S. military evacuations out of the country.

Advocates estimate roughly 150,000 vulnerable Afghans still remain in the country after a U.S. evacuation effort ended early Tuesday, while those who assisted the U.S. military who may now wish to leave with their families could add another 100,000. 

Many who remain have gone into hiding over fear of violent retribution by the Taliban, likely targeted for work alongside American and coalition forces that battled and killed members of the Islamic-fundamentalist group over two decades of war. 

Confusion and fear: These groups of people face overwhelming confusion and fear over how to leave the country, from practical matters of appropriate travel documents and questions over when airports will reopen and how they will function — to the uncertainty of whether the Taliban will respond to international pressure to ensure safe passage.

“The last few months have been incredibly challenging and disappointing for our clients, whose risk has increased exponentially with the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan,” Adam Bates, policy counsel with the International Refugee Assistance Project told reporters, noting that “the majority of our clients were not able to leave Afghanistan on an evacuation flight.”

Who was left behind?: Out of more than 500 clients the International Refugee Assistance Project was trying to get out of the country, only about 130 were able to make it onto flights. Just a few dozen have made it onto U.S. soil.

Rabbi Will Berkowitz, CEO of the refugee resettlement organization Jewish Family Services, said that group has 127 people on the ground in Afghanistan — 23 families that qualify for Special Immigrant Visas (SIV) to the U.S. who were left behind in the evacuations.  

The organization is gaming whether people can evacuate over land routes, but is distraught over whether access to cash and communication may be cut off at any moment. They have advised the people to stay in hiding over the next few days as the situation unfolds. 

The New York-based Women for Afghan Women was unable to secure evacuation for 500 of its most vulnerable staff. This group qualified for evacuation and refugee status for their association with a U.S.-government funded organization. 

Also left in Afghanistan are an estimated 150 journalists working for the Voice of America and Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, media outlets funded by the American government. That group numbers 500 people including their families, according to a congressional aide. 

 

[David Andrews]

14 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

I have a rather sizeable bet with a friend that they’ll be some kind of invading force back in Afghan within 2 years (inc. UN). UK media looks like it is manufacturing consent again. 

Indeed on both, and I'm betting with you.

[Jeff Carter]

The hysterical media reports from Afghanistan suggesting a quarter million persons in hiding for fear of being massacred are fairly reminiscent of hysterical media reports from the end of the Vietnam occupation. Or hysterical media reports from 1950s Vietnam - now understood as a deliberated psy-op - which saw a mass exodus of Catholic peasants to Diem’s newly declared police state. Part of the messaging here is that the absence of US/NATO occupying forces results in widespread chaos and human rights violations, when, objectively, it has instead been the presence of these occupying forces responsible for the chaos and human suffering. The Afghanis in real, rather than speculative, danger are those who were directly involved in the Phoenix-like programs run by the occupiers, but they are likely long gone. Outside of the western media bubble, the hysteria and fear-mongering is notably absent - for instance the Indian diplomat Bhadrakumar who I linked several weeks ago has now posted eleven sober non-speculative reports on Afghanistan without inflated numbers or emotive language.

re: Taiwan - it has long been recognized at the UN as Chinese territory and not an independent nation. While recent years have seen an uptick in promoting Taiwanese independence, in concert with the US “pivot to China”, most if not all concerns of an imminent PLA invasion of the island are imagined by politicians in Taiwan and their supporters in US and Australia. The PRC seem content to play the long game, but any effort to station American missiles or radars on the island will likely trigger a swift and decisive countermove. It seems the world has enough problems without new and dangerous brinksmanship.

[Douglas Caddy]

[Douglas Caddy]

17 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I'm not sure if subsequent posts were pro staying in Afghanistan or not , but I'll try to address what Doug's saying.

 

Doug: In my opinion America and the free would will pay heavily in geopolitics for what Biden had done. In his speech yesterday he claimed he had ended the "Forever War."

Ok, so what do you propose? Are you making the argument we should stay indefinitely because after all it's only 20-30 billion a year to employ a small force of 2500 who keep things reasonably stable in at least Kabul?

Doug: In my opinion America and the free would will pay heavily in geopolitics for what Biden had done. In his speech yesterday he claimed he had ended the "Forever War." Then he went on to declare a new war, this one on terrorists who threaten America.

But that's not a new war, presumably isn't that what we say we've been doing for the last 20 years? But we  don't know the working reality of that statement. He's done the deed and how do we know he's not just trying to assure the hawks that America just won't roll over in the future. We don't know how much commitment that statement entails.

RE New Yorker article:200,000 people Doug?  So we're a lot better at making friends than I ever thought we were! So we owe it to everybody whoever co operated with us? I'm not going to trust the Taliban , but is there any point in them seeking reprisals on 200,000 people? They've got a country to run and have to understand to keep it from crumbling they are going to need some cooperation from world community.

Doug: China now knows it can move against Taiwan. The terrorists now know they can move against America's homeland, maybe as proxies for China and Russia. 

I'm not sure what you mean specifically by the Middle East terrorists moving against the U.S in our homeland as proxies, but we certainly can't be sure to be safe , from terrorist attacks based within the U.S..

China moving against Taiwan is the big one, isn't it? But of course Taiwan has the "silicon shield" . In some senses Taiwan Semi conductor has the  whole world hostage and if it was, for any reason, to stop production, the world would be shut down. So they hold some chips against a Chinese invasion.

Of course, you have an impressive resume Doug. I've won a couple of Mandarin Speech contests and was considering being an interpreter many years ago, but decided i didn't want to go that route. But it did leave me some knowledge about the Chinese culture. This could sound Pollyanneish , but they've had a long history of being invaded but not being an imperialist power. They seem to be intent on taking over the world economically using far less weapons and bombs than our history shows we have. We'll see if that's where history's trending. We largely gave them Hong Kong. But in the meantime,let's hope we'll l be hearing mostly a lot of saber rattling about them taking over some largely uninhabited South Seas Islands.

 

 

The bottom line is that virtually everyone who closely follows foreign affairs as much as domestic affairs believes Biden has committed a geopolitical error of incalculable magnitude that puts our country in mortal danger. I concur in that assessment. Every office holder who is a Democrat will suffer politically even though each one played no role in what he did. Biden's judgment in implementing policy, foreign and domestic, must now be scrutinized carefully. 

[Douglas Caddy]

Fascinating read whether it is true or not.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/09/02/confessions-of-a-secret-controlled-demolitions-special-operative-for-911/?fbclid=IwAR3c3x65GYGp8BSrIJsuFJy7W7Hpc_e6FpisU7WQY10mSwGLGs4LuwCKIVs

[Kirk Gallaway]

Doug: The bottom line is that virtually everyone who closely follows foreign affairs as much as domestic affairs believes Biden has committed a geopolitical error of incalculable magnitude that puts our country in mortal danger. I concur in that assessment.

****

Ho! virtually everyone Doug? Or maybe....anybody whose anybody??? Just like virtually everyone who believes JFK was killed because of the Alien Presence?

Huh! Well uhh.... thanks for the dialog Doug!

Whoever would have thought that Joe Biden would become the next Eugene Mc Carthy, and we'd become a nation of hawks and doves again?.

*****

I was saying this awhile back. People here project that all presidents are hostage to the Defense Establishment which is largely as powerful as it was during the JFK era. 50 years have passed. Times actually change!

-We got into the Iraq War and our extended occupation of Afghanistan  through George W. Bush  and his PNAC group. He was under no pressure from the militarily or politically to start a war in Iraq. He did it to himself, and all of us and the rest of the world. Each successive President, Obama, Trump and Biden could have taken the heat and gotten out of Afghanistan  and only Biden chose to, and he's taking  the heat.

i could see particularly from a foreigner watching the U.S. aggressive foreign policy over the years. It would seem very spooky. What is it that prompts all these U.S.Presidents to invade countries and continually perpetuate war, then the next thought is what's this, some  ungodly cabal similar to the ones that killed JFK that force the President, or else?

To demystify this from the military dictating policy to each successive President, the truth is there's a whole other factor involved, and that is the complicity of the American people. There are whole towns and medium size and rather large cities where the Defense industry is the chief employer, and the entire economy revolves around the federal defense budget. This is more true in red states , where the defense industries dominate the general output because their overall economies are smaller.

To the extent that the American people also buy into this false narrative of every successive President's beholding to the mighty Defense establishment, That's really not taking responsibility. Americans, themselves are a very security minded people. There are many people in the U.S. who buy this credo of American Exceptualism, and have a mindset that they are indispensable to the free functioning of any world that they would ever consider living in.  The problem lies largely within ourselves.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Kirk Gallaway

[Benjamin Cole]

10 hours ago, Douglas Caddy said:

The bottom line is that virtually everyone who closely follows foreign affairs as much as domestic affairs believes Biden has committed a geopolitical error of incalculable magnitude that puts our country in mortal danger. I concur in that assessment. Every office holder who is a Democrat will suffer politically even though each one played no role in what he did. Biden's judgment in implementing policy, foreign and domestic, must now be scrutinized carefully. 

I believe that no one in the US cares what happens in the Afghanistan, except some people inside the globalist DC bubble. 

 

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

27 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I believe that no one in the US cares what happens in the Afghanistan, except some people inside the globalist DC bubble. 

 

 

Well if what you say is true Ben, then this reluctance to get out should boil over pretty quick. And I'd like that.

But if the msm is nonstop coverage of "misery and unrest in Afghanistan" for the next few months. . Because I wouldn't want to go back into Afghanistan , that doesn't mean I don't care about Afghani atrocities.  After all, they are people.

Just like you were saying fondly about the rioters in 1/6, that you like them because, to you they represent "the downtrodden, the unprivileged, the disenfranchised," etc.  Oh that's right you've had a change of heart and now they're "cretins", right??

heh heh!

Edited September 3, 2021 by Kirk Gallaway

[Benjamin Cole]

27 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Well if what you say is true Ben, then this reluctance to get out should boil over pretty quick. And I'd like that.

But if the msm is nonstop coverage of "misery and unrest in Afghanistan" for the next few months. . Because I wouldn't want to go back into Afghanistan , that doesn't mean I don't care about Afghani atrocities.  After all, they are people.

Just like you were saying fondly about the rioters in 1/6, that you like them because, to you they represent "the downtrodden, the unprivileged, the disenfranchised," etc.  Oh that's right you've had a change of heart and now they're "cretins", right??

heh heh!

Yeah, Biden will have lost the "Afghan vote" in Nov. 2024. 

I never said I liked the people in the 1/6 scrum. I said they were the marginalized, outcasts, mentally challenged and so on. Which they obviously were, to anyone who does scant primary research on the arrest reports, affidavits charges and so on.

Exclusive: FBI finds scant evidence U.S. Capitol attack was coordinated - sources

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-fbi-finds-scant-evidence-us-capitol-attack-was-coordinated-sources-2021-08-20/

I still do not understand an unorganized mob of less than 600 people could push their way into the US Capitol when the Capitol Police had a force of 2,300 and the DC Metropolitan Police have a force of 3,500, and the phones worked. 

They were waiting for the National Guard to ride cavalry to the rescue?  

I guess the Afghan Army took cues from the Capitol Police....

 

 

 

[Douglas Caddy]

 

 

Peggy Noonan says Biden's reputation is forever tarnished.

Unfortunate, the link is truncated. I got it off the Drudge Report.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/afghanistan-withdrawal-fiasco-biden-mcchrystal-gates-holbrooke-obama-military-taliban-11630612285

[Paul Brancato]

Biden did a courageous thing, and I am both pleasantly surprised and grateful. Had Trump pulled it off while he was President I would say the same thing, and I am glad he started the ball rolling. Obama’s Afghanistan surge was very wrongheaded, Bush 2 is forever on my xxxx list for his war crimes.