The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Bill Fite]

30 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Let's not forget that they were major cheerleaders for our misguided invasions and occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

Speaking of major cheerleaders - let's not forget "Afghanistan Day" when Ronnie feted his "freedom fighters" in the WhiteHouse.  Any of these guys look familiar?

[Kirk Gallaway]

3 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Doug,

Bret Stephens has always been a shameless NYT spokesman for the Neocons who got us into Afghanistan and Iraq, so it's not surprising that he is now jumping on the Republican's blame-Biden-for-Afghanistan propaganda bandwagon.

But where was Bret Stephens when Trump and Pompeo surrendered to the Taliban last year, and even invited them to Camp David on 9/11-- while excluding the Afghan government from the negotiations?  What kind of message did Trump and Pompeo send to the Afghan Army?

Where was Bret Stephens when Trump reduced U.S. forces in Afghanistan to 2,500 in January-- even as Afghan Army troops were actively surrendering to the Taliban throughout the country?  (And recall that Trump and Chris Miller refused to share Pentagon intel with Biden's transition team in December and January.)

Where was Stephens when Trump bragged in June of this year that the Biden administration "couldn't stop" Trump's "withdrawal process" from Afghanistan?

After 20 years and $2 trillion wasted U.S. taxpayer dollars, Neocon propagandists like Bret Stephens and Rupert Murdoch are suddenly interested in Afghanistan, in a game of Pin the Blame on the Donkey.

Let's not forget that they were major cheerleaders for our misguided invasions and occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

Right on W.! Bret Stephens has always been a silver spoon neocon!

But Doug's other link was about as bad. Of course who would be more scornful of us than the Brits. Doug's link is from this old Brit, cold warrior fossil, Andrew Bolt and his "Bolt report"..

"Yes very telling indeed!!!" .It's American "wokeness" that now translates as to the U.S. having "no backbone", and is now "completely untrustworthy to it's  allies".

" It's not just a political decline , it's a cultural decline".  "A delicious irony!"

It's like the last days of "the fall of the Roman empire". And are now "vulnerable to Russia, China and Iran!" "Catastrophic for the U.S.and Biden must own it!"

Yes, very delicious indeed! Bolt hits upon this story that American left zillions in  armaments and bundles of money to the Taliban, then shows a news clip of a room where there's all sort of confiscated arms, and there are big grey bricks of cash in rows that look to be at least 10's of millions of dollars that allegedly the Americans just forgot and left!!. The only thing is,  I'm pretty sure I remember that film clip as being from around 2006 in Afghanistan during the Bush administration, Subsequent guests made reference to the U.S. leaving arms but didn't mention the bundles of cash because I'm pretty sure their film is 15 years old!

 

Doug, I'm not sure you should be watching so much satellite TV.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Kirk Gallaway

[Douglas Caddy]

Overnight report from The Hill:

The days-long war of words over charter flights stuck in Mazar-i-Sharif continued Wednesday as Secretary of State Antony Blinken called on the Taliban to allow the flights to leave. Speaking at Ramstein Air Base in Germany, Blinken said other countries and the United Nations were working on resuming commercial flights to the Afghan capital of Kabul.  But in the meantime, Blinken said the Taliban can "demonstrate its willingness to respect freedom of movement …  by allowing the departure of charter flights with properly documented passengers.” Earlier: Over the weekend, Rep. Michael McCaul (Texas), the top Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, leveled the charge in a Fox News interview that the Taliban were essentially holding Americans and Afghans hostage by not allowing the flights to leave. On Tuesday, Blinken said he was “not aware of anyone being held on an aircraft or any hostage-like situation” and that anyone with “valid” travel documents is being allowed to leave. But he also acknowledged some flights have stalled. But Blinken’s comments only further frustrated lawmakers in both parties, as The Hill’s Laura Kelly reported. ID fight: A particular flashpoint was Blinken saying the administration could not verify the identities of passengers on the planes. The remark that drew swift pushback from Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee whose office is vouching for at least two planes full of American citizens, at-risk Afghan allies and their families, including small children. “The information we provided the State Department is above and beyond what is usually required for travel in Afghanistan,” Maria McElwain, a spokesperson for Blumenthal, wrote in an email to The Hill in response to the secretary’s remarks in Qatar. McElwain said the senator’s office provided the State Department with the planes’ manifests as early as Aug. 30, with continual updates through Monday, and that Blinken was “not correct” in saying passenger identities cannot be verified. She further called it “clearly problematic” for the State Department to rely on the Taliban to individually verify “extremely vulnerable Afghans on these flights.”

AIDES FRUSTRATED, TOO Congressional aides are also fretting that the administration appears to have lost its sense of urgency to get people out now that the airlift has ended, as The Hill’s Rebecca Beitsch reported. The aides voiced their frustration following a briefing in which they said the State Department provided few details about any plans for assisting the more than 100,000 vulnerable Afghans who remain in the country. “The impression I got was the urgency is gone,” said one source on the call. “And it’s this tacit admission that while we did a big evacuation, we’ve gotten out our real priorities.” Awaiting approval: Left behind in Afghanistan are 550 Special Immigrant Visa (SIV) holders who worked with the U.S. military for at least two years. But many more Afghans have applications awaiting final approval. “That’s a ton of people. That’s people who are approved but don't have the visa; people who the embassy had to destroy their passport; people who didn't have everything or are somewhere in the process, somewhere in the pipeline,” said another aide on the call. “But if you don't have a visa in your passport, you're dooky out of luck.” Priority groups?: Adding to the number of Afghan allies seeking evacuation are those who qualify for the Priority 1 and Priority 2 programs created by the Biden administration but who never made it out on a flight. Those individuals assisted the U.S military for less than two years or worked on democratization efforts or with nonprofits aligned with the U.S. The number of Afghans in the two priority groups could surpass 145,000 when including family members, according to an estimate by the Association of Wartime Allies. “They don't have a plan on how they’re going to get more P1 and P2 people out. They’re focused principally on U.S. passport holders and people in their immediate families,” the second source said. State’s response: When reached for comment, a State Department spokesperson said: "Despite the perilous conditions on the ground and immense security challenges, the United States and our Allies were able to evacuate safely tens of thousands of Afghans at risk. This heartbreaking reality is that many of our longtime partners were unable to leave over the past two weeks, given the security conditions, including the heinous August 25 attack that killed 13 servicemembers and over 100 Afghans." The spokesperson also pointed to recent comments by Blinken, who said, “We’re not stopping our work to help Americans and at-risk Afghans in Afghanistan. We’re going to do everything we can moving forward to continue this mission and also to learn from it."

[Douglas Caddy]

Kirk and N.W:

U.S. Senator Biden voted for the U.S. to invade Afghanistan and Iraq. He was present at the creation of the geopolitical disaster that we now face.

As I wrote in this topic earlier, the Trump Surrender Treaty plan was devised some time ago by Putin and his think tank in Moscow. It was presented to President Trump for implementation with the Taliban, which he as their faithful agent successfully undertook to accomplish.

However, no one, not even Putin, foresaw that Biden would ratify the Trump Surrender Treaty or that his plan for Americans to evacuate Afghanistan would be so ineptly devised and carried out in such a disastrous way. He and his incompetent Secretary of State Blinken bear the responsibility for this. The latter should be forced to resign immediately.

Elon Musk twitted when Biden’s fiasco first emerged that world war is now likely, maybe even inevitable.

The commentator in the Sky News video also implied that this could occur and that the U.S. might initiate a nuclear was when we realized all was lost and that we had been cornered.

The assassination of President Kennedy was a seminal event that had the effect of America slowly sliding to self destruction. JFK, although burdened with personal flaws, understood what was at stake and unilaterally tried to enlist the Soviet Union in a common cause that was supremely important to the whole world and for that reason was murdered by elements in the U.S. government who jealously resented that JFK had acted without their authorization.

JFK allegedly said to Jackie in the midst of the Cuban Missile Crisis that “better Red than dead.” Today I think many American would say “better dead than Red” although there are also many who think highly of Putin and of authoritarian government.

America appears to be in a slow motion slide into oblivion. Such a slide could quickly accelerate if Biden makes another disastrous judgment.

Doug

[Kirk Gallaway]

Doug: The number of Afghans in the two priority groups could surpass 145,000 when including family members, according to an estimate by the Association of Wartime Allies.

145,000 people?  I'm sure there are a lot of Afghans who once gave us a cab ride who would like to relocate to the U.S. even if they're in no political danger. Did you ever count on us evacuating 200,000 Afghan people? I don't think the U.S. ever counted on processing all those people. They're doing a lot of this on the seat  of the pants, but now under increased international political and media pressure.

 

Doug: Elon Musk twitted when Biden’s fiasco first emerged that world war is now likely, maybe even inevitable.

Elon Musk?  War between whom? He does says off the wall crap sometimes, amidst some good stuff about things he knows about.

The commentator in the Sky News video also implied that this could occur and that the U.S. might initiate a nuclear was when we realized all was lost and that we had been cornered.

Cornered? Explain the chain of events by how "all will be lost" and we'll be "cornered" into starting  a nuclear war?

So Blinken resigns, then what? What do you propose?

*****

Doug:The Trump Surrender Treaty plan was devised some time ago by Putin and his think tank in Moscow. It was presented to President Trump for implementation with the Taliban, which he as their faithful agent successfully undertook to accomplish.

That wouldn't surprise me at all. Particularly given that it was negotiated without the presence of the Afghan government. But a lot of time has elapsed. Why hasn't anybody said a peep, at least about what a poor negotiation it was?

Doug:Today I think many American would say “better dead than Red” although there are also many who think highly of Putin and of authoritarian government.

That sounds like a lot of cold war rhetoric to me. So how are we in danger of going red?

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Kirk Gallaway

[Kirk Gallaway]

Watch out Joaquin!

Donald Trump as "The Joker"!

 

[W. Niederhut]

[Paul Brancato]

Mr Niederhut - I’m no fan of Republicans, most especially now. And I’m fully behind Biden’s withdrawal from Afghanistan. But I don’t think, in fact I know, that we can’t lay all the blame on Republicans for our foreign acts of aggression. Do you agree? 
 

[W. Niederhut]

12 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Mr Niederhut - I’m no fan of Republicans, most especially now. And I’m fully behind Biden’s withdrawal from Afghanistan. But I don’t think, in fact I know, that we can’t lay all the blame on Republicans for our foreign acts of aggression. Do you agree? 
 

Paul,

     Someone once pointed out that all of America's major wars during the past 60 years were started, or escalated, by Presidents from Texas-- LBJ in '65, GHWB in '90, and Dubya Bush in 2001 and 2003.  Of course, LBJ was a Democrat.

    Bill Clinton signed off on the NATO bombing of Serbia, and Obama signed off on Operation Timber Sycamore in Syria, NATO intervention in Libya, and the surge in Afghanistan.

    So, no, I wouldn't lay all of the blame for our acts of foreign aggression on the Republicans.

    But what we are witnessing this summer, IMO, is a concerted GOP smear campaign to blame Biden for the abrupt collapse of the Afghan Army and government-- a process which was initiated by the Trump/Pompeo surrender to the Taliban last year, in negotiations that excluded the Afghan government.

     IMO, Donald Trump is a sociopath, and a Russian asset, who has an uncanny knack for dodging consequences for his misconduct, while blaming others for his misdeeds.   We've seen this time and time again.  This Afghanistan debacle is merely the latest example.

Edited September 10, 2021 by W. Niederhut

[Paul Brancato]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Paul,

     Someone once pointed out that all of America's major wars during the past 60 years were started, or escalated, by Presidents from Texas-- LBJ in '65, GHWB in '90, and Dubya Bush in 2001 and 2003.  Of course, LBJ was a Democrat.

    Bill Clinton signed off on the NATO bombing of Serbia, and Obama signed off on Operation Timber Sycamore in Syria, NATO intervention in Libya, and the surge in Afghanistan.

    So, no, I wouldn't lay all of the blame for our acts of foreign aggression on the Republicans.

    But what we are witnessing this summer, IMO, is a concerted GOP smear campaign to blame Biden for the abrupt collapse of the Afghan Army and government-- a process which was initiated by the Trump/Pompeo surrender to the Taliban last year, in negotiations that excluded the Afghan government.

     IMO, Donald Trump is a sociopath, and a Russian asset, who has an uncanny knack for dodging consequences for his misconduct, while blaming others for his misdeeds.   We've seen this time and time again.  This Afghanistan debacle is merely the latest example.

Have you noticed the msm coverage of Afghanistan has been on the whole critical of Biden’s exit? It seems like we never have enough of war. Biden’s spokespeople are constantly having to point out during interviews that polls show Americans wanted us to get out. It would be nice if our liberal pundits would focus on history and the horrible mistakes that have led us to this precipice, rather than the unavoidably messy exit. Obama should have gotten us out. Why didn’t he? 
 

[Dennis Berube]

1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

IMO, Donald Trump is a sociopath, and a Russian asset, who has an uncanny knack for dodging consequences for his misconduct, while blaming others for his misdeeds.   We've seen this time and time again.  This Afghanistan debacle is merely the latest example.

How is Afghanistan an example of Trump being a sociopath? He didn’t start it and he brought some troops back if I remember correctly (which he was harshly criticized for on the left). He may or may not be a sociopath, but I completely fail to see Afghanistan being an example of that. The Biden withdrawal disaster had to have been planned imo and makes little tactical sense to choose the Kabul airport over other more easily defended options. I personally think the missing element to this is what Assange said in 2011 about Afghanistan. There are a lot of people with certain knowledge and documents that powerful people want to disappear that likely involves the missing $21 trillion in “unaccountable adjustments”. Assange called them the “transnational security organization” i think, something close to that anyway. 

[W. Niederhut]

18 minutes ago, Dennis Berube said:

How is Afghanistan an example of Trump being a sociopath? He didn’t start it and he brought some troops back if I remember correctly (which he was harshly criticized for on the left). He may or may not be a sociopath, but I completely fail to see Afghanistan being an example of that. The Biden withdrawal disaster had to have been planned imo and makes little tactical sense to choose the Kabul airport over other more easily defended options. I personally think the missing element to this is what Assange said in 2011 about Afghanistan. There are a lot of people with certain knowledge and documents that powerful people want to disappear that likely involves the missing $21 trillion in “unaccountable adjustments”. Assange called them the “transnational security organization” i think, something close to that anyway. 

Dennis,

     Trump negotiated the U.S. surrender to the Taliban last year without including the Afghan government (and army) in the negotiations.  He reduced U.S. troop levels to 2,500 in January while refusing to share Pentagon intel with Biden's transition team.  Then he bragged as recently as June that Biden "couldn't stop" the Trump "withdrawal process" in Afghanistan.

    Now Trump is actively blaming Biden for the abrupt surrender of the Afghan Army and government to the Taliban.

    How do you explain Trump's 180 degree flip flop on Afghanistan?

[Dennis Berube]

26 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Dennis,

     Trump negotiated the U.S. surrender to the Taliban last year without including the Afghan government (and army) in the negotiations.  He reduced U.S. troop levels to 2,500 in January while refusing to share Pentagon intel with Biden's transition team.  Then he bragged as recently as June that Biden "couldn't stop" the Trump "withdrawal process" in Afghanistan.

    Now Trump is actively blaming Biden for the abrupt surrender of the Afghan Army and government to the Taliban.

    How do you explain Trump's 180 degree flip flop on Afghanistan?

The same way I would explain Democrats slamming Trump for withdrawing troops at that time and now supporting this mess, politics, theater, blame-game. Every cheerleader for any POTUS ever always seeks to blame negative things on the “other” guy. 
 

Considering what Biden did yesterday, I would've gambled on literally anyone else for POTUS. Naomi Wolf is right.

 

https://rumble.com/vmas3g-a-biofascist-coup-was-declared-today.html

[W. Niederhut]

49 minutes ago, Dennis Berube said:

The same way I would explain Democrats slamming Trump for withdrawing troops at that time and now supporting this mess, politics, theater, blame-game. Every cheerleader for any POTUS ever always seeks to blame negative things on the “other” guy. 
 

Considering what Biden did yesterday, I would've gambled on literally anyone else for POTUS. Naomi Wolf is right.

 

https://rumble.com/vmas3g-a-biofascist-coup-was-declared-today.html

Dennis,

     The latest CDC data indicates that un-vaccinated Americans were 11 times more likely to die of COVID in 2021 than the vaccinated.  So, Biden is following George Washington's example in mandating vaccinations (variolation in Washington's case) to protect the general public.

    And vaccine mandates are as American as apple pie-- upheld by the SCOTUS in the case of Jacobson v. Massachusetts.

    As for Trump, if he had any integrity, he would support his own withdrawal plan for Afghanistan, rather than blaming Biden for the capitulation of the Afghan Army and government.

    That's a big "if."

[Paul Brancato]

5 hours ago, Dennis Berube said:

How is Afghanistan an example of Trump being a sociopath? He didn’t start it and he brought some troops back if I remember correctly (which he was harshly criticized for on the left). He may or may not be a sociopath, but I completely fail to see Afghanistan being an example of that. The Biden withdrawal disaster had to have been planned imo and makes little tactical sense to choose the Kabul airport over other more easily defended options. I personally think the missing element to this is what Assange said in 2011 about Afghanistan. There are a lot of people with certain knowledge and documents that powerful people want to disappear that likely involves the missing $21 trillion in “unaccountable adjustments”. Assange called them the “transnational security organization” i think, something close to that anyway. 

I didn’t say that