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The inevitable end result of our last 56 years


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42 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

The Azerbaijian-Georgia oil route was designed to freeze out Russia. They wanted the oil from Central Asia to go north of the Caspian Sea across Kazakhstan.

 

On this point: Most of the post-9/11 books and articles that address the pipeline routes say that the oil companies were leery of the former Soviet Azerbaijian-Georgia route because of Russian jealousy and its complications.  I'll look more closely at those.

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6 hours ago, Kathy Beckett said:

Doug, From what I'm hearing, our purpose there was to train Afghan soldiers to protect their country. This is something they didn't do. All the monies sent to them were abused by the Afghani govt. Never went to what it was supposed to go for.

So if we stayed, nothing would change. 

(Did you watch Rachel last night? She brought all of this up.)

Kathy:

We have tens of thousand U.S.. military personnel still in South Korea, Japan. Germany and elsewhere. Even 5,000 U.S. soldiers stationed in Afghanistan would have continued the stabilization of the country and protected the general population. The decision to withdraw left a billion dollars worth of our military equipment in the hands of he Taliban. Now it is one of the best equipped armies in the world. The plan to pullout was a complete disaster. The Taliban may now kill thousands of Afghans and then start a war of terror against Western Europe and America. 

I shall watch Rachel tonight and the rest of the week to hear her analysis of this and those she interviews.

Doug

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35 minutes ago, Douglas Caddy said:

Kathy:

We have tens of thousand U.S.. military personnel still in South Korea, Japan. Germany and elsewhere. Even 5,000 U.S. soldiers stationed in Afghanistan would have continued the stabilization of the country and protected the general population. The decision to withdraw left a billion dollars worth of our military equipment in the hands of he Taliban. Now it is one of the best equipped armies in the world. The plan to pullout was a complete disaster. The Taliban may now kill thousands of Afghans and then start a war of terror against Western Europe and America. 

 

Serious question, especially now that some people are again raising the specter of the Taliban as a source of "terror" against Western Europe and America.

I would love to hear from Larry Hancock on this one.

What, exactly, is the evidence that the Taliban was ever a source of "terror" against Western Europe and the U.S.?

That notion has been endlessly drummed into our heads by our mainstream media for the past 20 years, like a Red Scare type mantra.  We could call it the Green Menace. 

Evidence?  The video and audio tapes repeatedly televised by the U.S. mainstream media of Bin Laden allegedly confessing that he was responsible for 9/11 have been exposed as crude fakes and false translations.

The Bush-Cheney carpet bombing of Afghanistan in 2001 was planned before 9/11, and was initiated on the grounds that the CIA's old mujaheddin associate, Osama Bin Laden, did 9/11, and was being harbored by the Taliban.  (Bin Laden twice denied having anything to do with 9/11 in 2001 -- but his statements to Al Jazeera and to a journalist in Pakistan were completely blacked out of the U.S. media.)

The Taliban said in September of 2001 that they would turn Bin Laden over to the U.S. authorities if the Bush administration gave them some evidence that Bin Laden was actually involved in the 9/11 attacks.  But we had no evidence.  Then we started bombing Afghanistan.  It was the beginning of Cheney and Rumsfeld's Project for a New American Century.

The narrative that Bin Laden and "Al Qaeda" were responsible for 9/11 was televised on 9/11 by CNN, the BBC, and Sky Television, by L. Paul Bremer, Ehud Barak, and Henry Kissinger, respectively.  Then it was endlessly repeated by Bush administration officials.  As a psy op, it was similar to the mass media blitz on 11/22/63 promptly labelling Lee Harvey Oswald as JFK's assassin, before Oswald was even charged with the crime by the Dallas Police.

Both Dick Cheney and FBI Director Robert Mueller later testified that evidence implicating Osama Bin Laden in the 9/11 attacks "was never forthcoming."

Imagine LBJ and J. Edgar Hoover testifying that JFK was actually killed by a bullet fired from the Grassy Knoll!

So, if Osama Bin Laden was, in fact, a Lee Harvey Oswald type patsy, why are we still repeating the old Bush-Cheney mantra blaming the Taliban for alleged international "terrorism?"

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Taliban2.0 could well be far more dangerous than 1.0. This is because the U.S. last week left sundry military equipment and arms behind, including modern fighter aircraft, Blackhawk helicopters, tanks, bombs and lots other things. its reach into other countries will be feasible. 

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1 hour ago, Douglas Caddy said:

Taliban2.0 could well be far more dangerous than 1.0. This is because the U.S. last week left sundry military equipment and arms behind, including modern fighter aircraft, Blackhawk helicopters, tanks, bombs and lots other things. its reach into other countries will be feasible. 

And yet, Doug, if I'm not mistaken, the tribal warlords of Afghanistan have never been especially imperialistic or invasive, have they?  Is the concern that they would use the U.S. weaponry to attack neighboring Islamic countries like Pakistan, Uzbekistan, or Iran?

This brings us back to my question (above) about the origin and substance of beliefs that the Taliban is some sort of international Green Menace, requiring a continuation of Bush and Cheney's so-called, "War on Terror."

We bombed and occupied their country, ostensibly, to get the Saudi guy who had worked previously with the CIA.  Although, admittedly the Bush-Cheney "War on Terror" in Afghanistan and Iraq always seemed like a massive military operation in search of a rationale.

 

Edited by W. Niederhut
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Cat Sweat. Sedition Hunters.  Capitol Hunters.  I didn't know facial recognition technology was available to the general public.  "Beat him with an American Flag pole", after he'd been drug down the steps.  These supporters of the Police.

A bodybuilding Trump fan photographed dragging a police officer during the Capitol riot has been arrested after a months-long hunt by internet sleuths (msn.com) 

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W. I agree with you. i think Doug is greatly overestimating the Taliban as an international threat.

W: Both Dick Cheney and FBI Director Robert Mueller later testified that evidence implicating Osama Bin Laden in the 9/11 attacks "was never forthcoming."

What is the source of this? This was in some Senate Subcommittee hearing?

*****

The reaction to this withdrawal is pretty much as I predicted. The outrage, the pressure on Biden. The people on the ground, the soldiers who previously fought, the same usual historian media "talking heads" weighing in in the news media. But now positively on the withdrawal, I am starting to hear more stories in reflection of what a miserable boondoggle this entire war was.

Despite Biden's claims a month ago, that there wasn't a complete fall to be reckoned with, at least anytime soon. I knew that was BS. But I thought that it might take a month rather than 10 days. Isn't that all the more reason that we shouldn't be there? Obviously the haste by which this has happened has produced some problems. The Taliban is prudent to appear moderate and cooperate with the evacuation. Why step on the tale of a tiger when the tiger's leaving?

I was hoping to  find the interview to post here of Jim Acosta with Jerry Brown on Saturday  where Brown praised Biden's actions as showing courage, and went into one of his good rants about the endless wars, hitting upon JFK, and the CIA's role in the Bay of Pigs briefly and pleading for these cycles of endless war to stop. I thought "not bad for an 83 year old!"

Edited by Kirk Gallaway
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Yes I remember that. I thought you might be confusing Cheney's statement as to Sadamm not being directly involved with 911, to Bin Laden. For Cheney to admit that, credibility wise,  would be in fact giving away his store. Maybe I missed it but have you found any evidence to back up your assertion that some of the alleged hijackers are still alive?

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2 hours ago, Douglas Caddy said:

National poll has Biden down 7 points to 46.  I think it will go lower in the days ahead.

 

https://www.aol.com/news/biden-approval-drops-lowest-level-204709280-135711848.html

about as high as Donald the Orange ever got, yes?

Of course it will go lower, the military-industrial complex has yet to rewind their collective spring. They will, soon. Till then the media still carries the Donny TORCH. Today, one of my regular USnews sources landing page, has 14 stories on it, 8 were regarding Donald the Orange with picture, 3 regarding Biden (2 with picture), 1 story  regarding Pelosi with Gym Jordan picture (he may be playing hardball soon), and most Taliban related...and heavy emphasis on Dem guilt, as if Trump (and that great military mind of our who knows beloved ex-Sect'y of State) didn't negotiate the fall of Kabul... So who is next? Wonder if the Pakistanii's are getting nervous.

Donald owns MSM. I hope the old fart isn't wandering dementia halls. If so, why is the media throwing him to the political wolves? Simple, because it can!

Why has the media become THE story? Great this 24 hour news cycle!

Edited by David G. Healy
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