The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[W. Niederhut]

19 minutes ago, Bill Fite said:

I always liked another smart guy's summary of the 2 parties:

"The Republicans stand for nothing but unmitigated greed and evil wrapped in the American flag.

The Democrats stand for nothing but wanting to be Republicans"

That guy was the late great Frank Zappa.

Bill,

   I don't think I've ever met a Democrat who wanted to be a Republican.  Have you?

Edited December 10, 2021 by W. Niederhut

[Bill Fite]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Bill,

   I don't think I've ever met a Democrat who wanted to be a Republican.  Have you?

well W, that was back in the 80s.

I'd say now - a lot of them have made the transition to 80s Republicanism, while the Republicans have moved way farther over there to the right.

But that's just my opinion.

[Matt Allison]

What was true 40 years ago no longer applies.

Today's bombshell:

Trump met privately with rally organizers in the White House January 4th according to subpoenas issues by the 1/6 committee today.

https://january6th.house.gov/sites/democrats.january6th.house.gov/files/20211209 Robert Peede, Jr. Letter.pdfs.january6th.house.gov/files/20211209%20Robert%20Peede,%20Jr.%20Letter.pdf

[W. Niederhut]

3 hours ago, Bill Fite said:

well W, that was back in the 80s.

I'd say now - a lot of them have made the transition to 80s Republicanism, while the Republicans have moved way farther over there to the right.

But that's just my opinion.

Bill,

    Now that I think about it, there was that whole "Democrats for Nixon" thing back in the day.  As I recall those people were either Dixiecrats who were angry about the passage of the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act, and/or hawkish about the Vietnam War.

    And the Scoop Jackson aligned "Neocons" also defected to the Republican Party.

    As for Matt's latest reference-- we, clearly, need Trump's January 6th records.

[Benjamin Cole]

5 hours ago, Bill Fite said:

I always liked another smart guy's summary of the 2 parties:

"The Republicans stand for nothing but unmitigated greed and evil wrapped in the American flag.

The Democrats stand for nothing but wanting to be Republicans"

That guy was the late great Frank Zappa.

Bill F--

Thanks for reading, and your comments. 

Love the Zappa. I had a 12-inch vinyl of his back in the day. All I can remember now is something about making love on the White House lawn. 

Of course, in this forum, we can address issues only with broad brush strokes, so we get a lot of "Democrats are good and Republicans are bad" type comments. I do not think people are so simple-minded, but we all sound that way when we express ourselves through bumper stickers. 

The Donks have indeed morphed in the last several decades, becoming indistinguishable from the national security state on policy issues, and now calling for authoritarian controls over the media and activist groups.  The Donk Clinton-Obama wing assumed the old 'Phant position (still expressed by that wing-tipped runt and former veep Pence) that globalism is wonderful, and sending jobs overseas and importing cheap immigrant labor is nirvana. Wall Street, Silicon Valley, M$M-entertainment-media love it. And the CCP-Beijing way of government is just Confucianism, so says Ray Dalio of Bridgewater. 

Think of the NBA reaction to Hong Kong, and you get the picture. But they painted "Black Lives Matter" on the courts. 

Now the 'Phants are hardly a bunch of nice guys, but it was Trump who took on Beijing, and not Obama, who was supine (I am too polite to say Obama was prone, splay-legged, face down and counting his money). Tramp put tariffs on Sino imports, disrupting lucrative arrangements of the largest and most powerful commercial combines of all time---Apple-CCP, Wal-Mart-CCP, BlackRock-CCP et al.  

Today,  some 'Phants are saying very interesting things: 

"Rubio: We Need to Restore Common Good Capitalism

NOV 05 2019

Rubio: “Common-good capitalism is about a vibrant and growing free market. But it is also about harnessing and channeling that growth to the benefit of our country, our people, and our society. Because after all, our nation does not exist to serve the interests of the market. The market exists to serve our nation and our people.”
 
Washington, D.C. — U.S. Senator Marco Rubio (R-FL) addressed students at Catholic University’s Busch School of Business. Rubio spoke on “Catholic Social Doctrine and the Dignity of Work” building off his op-ed in First Things, titled “What Economics is For,” that focuses on the economy and dignity of work."

 

---30---

OK, so I know there be howls from audience, that Rubio is not sincere. Indeed, a lack of sincerity would not be a surprise in any Senator, Donk or 'Phant. 

But things have changed. That Rubio speech could have been lifted from a 1960s left-wing Catholic, some of whom I had the personal pleasure of listening too.  It is a radioactive speech for Donks today, barring maybe AOC-Sanders types (although AOC-Sanders are not allowed to breath even one good word about capitalism).

Well, that's it for today. 

Keep an open mind. 

 

 

 

[Matt Allison]

After losing the election, Trump's plans for a coup went into action. Two days after Biden was declared the winner, he fired the Secretary of Defense, Mark Esper, and replaced him with someone he could control, Chris Miller.

Removing the protections that would be in place when the Capitol was attacked was key, so this directive went out: 

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

Biden Eulogizes Dole as ‘Genuine Hero’ Who ‘Lived by a Code of Honor’

The New York Times34 minutes ago

 

bookmark_border

 

share

 

more_vert

 

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Bill F--

Thanks for reading, and your comments. 

Love the Zappa. I had a 12-inch vinyl of his back in the day. All I can remember now is something about making love on the White House lawn. 

Of course, in this forum, we can address issues only with broad brush strokes, so we get a lot of "Democrats are good and Republicans are bad" type comments. I do not think people are so simple-minded, but we all sound that way when we express ourselves through bumper stickers. 

The Donks have indeed morphed in the last several decades, becoming indistinguishable from the national security state on policy issues, and now calling for authoritarian controls over the media and activist groups.  The Donk Clinton-Obama wing assumed the old 'Phant position (still expressed by that wing-tipped runt and former veep Pence) that globalism is wonderful, and sending jobs overseas and importing cheap immigrant labor is nirvana. Wall Street, Silicon Valley, M$M-entertainment-media love it. And the CCP-Beijing way of government is just Confucianism, so says Ray Dalio of Bridgewater. 

Think of the NBA reaction to Hong Kong, and you get the picture. But they painted "Black Lives Matter" on the courts. 

Now the 'Phants are hardly a bunch of nice guys, but it was Trump who took on Beijing, and not Obama, who was supine (I am too polite to say Obama was prone, splay-legged, face down and counting his money). Tramp put tariffs on Sino imports, disrupting lucrative arrangements of the largest and most powerful commercial combines of all time---Apple-CCP, Wal-Mart-CCP, BlackRock-CCP et al.  

Today,  some 'Phants are saying very interesting things: 

"Rubio: We Need to Restore Common Good Capitalism

NOV 05 2019

Rubio: “Common-good capitalism is about a vibrant and growing free market. But it is also about harnessing and channeling that growth to the benefit of our country, our people, and our society. Because after all, our nation does not exist to serve the interests of the market. The market exists to serve our nation and our people.”
 
Washington, D.C. — U.S. Senator Marco Rubio (R-FL) addressed students at Catholic University’s Busch School of Business. Rubio spoke on “Catholic Social Doctrine and the Dignity of Work” building off his op-ed in First Things, titled “What Economics is For,” that focuses on the economy and dignity of work."

 

---30---

OK, so I know there be howls from audience, that Rubio is not sincere. Indeed, a lack of sincerity would not be a surprise in any Senator, Donk or 'Phant. 

But things have changed. That Rubio speech could have been lifted from a 1960s left-wing Catholic, some of whom I had the personal pleasure of listening too.  It is a radioactive speech for Donks today, barring maybe AOC-Sanders types (although AOC-Sanders are not allowed to breath even one good word about capitalism).

Well, that's it for today. 

Keep an open mind. 

 

 

 

Ben,

 Marco Rubio's political career has been funded and promoted by the Koch brothers.  They were looking for intelligent salesmen who could appeal to Hispanic voters. 

Rubio has backed the Koch agenda an estimated 98% of the time in the Senate-- including his repeated efforts to sabotage Obamacare and to reduce corporate taxes to their current lows.  (His one area of dissent was his support for the bi-partisan Senate Immigration Reform bill that the Tea Party House refused to pass.)

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/oct/27/patrick-murphy/patrick-murphy-marco-rubio-voted-98-percent-time-k/

In reality, the Koch/Rubio concept of "common good capitalism" is basically de-regulated, laissez faire, Gilded Age style Robber Baron-ism-- appropriately labeled by Duke University historian Nancy MacLean as, "misanthropic libertarianism."

Rubio is also a staunch climate change science denier-- a fossil fuel industry shill.   His employers, the Kochs, have spent millions on propaganda denying climate change science.  

In our protracted discussion of Donks vs. 'Phants,  I have enumerated for you the many substantive domestic policy differences between the modern Democratic Party and the modern Koch-aligned GOP-- on tax policy, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, education, environmental protection, climate change mitigation, voting rights, etc.-- but the facts I post always seem to go into one of your ears and out the other.

In that sense you, certainly, do seem to have an open mind... 🤥

In truth, it is simple minded and toxic to push the false narrative that there are no substantive differences between Donks and 'Phants.   As an example, the 'Phants passed two House budget bills after 2010 that would have, essentially, abolished Medicare-- turning it into a Koch/Paul Ryan Voucher Care scam!

I would urge you to study the historic impact that Medicare has had on reducing senior poverty in the U.S.

No doubt, both political parties have been corrupted by money, and the Donks have, unfortunately kow towed to the military-industrial complex since 11/22/63...

BUT almost all significant, progressive legislation of the past century has been accomplished by the Democratic Party-- e.g., the Social Security Act, the Securities Exchange Act, the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts, Medicare, Medicaid, and Obamacare. 

Nixon deserves some credit for creating the EPA-- but look at what Reagan, the Bushes, and Trump did to undermine environmental protection!  Need I mention the records of James Watt, Dick Cheney, and Scott Pruitt on environmental protection?  Geez...they were all fossil fuel industry factotums who actively sought to roll back Clean Air and Clean Water protection in the U.S.!

Those are your 'Phants...

If Jack and Bobby Kennedy could see what the Republican Party has become in the 21st century, they would roll over in their graves!

So would Dwight Eisenhower.

Edited December 11, 2021 by W. Niederhut

[Ron Bulman]

8 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Bill,

   I don't think I've ever met a Democrat who wanted to be a Republican.  Have you?

No.

Is that a Sears poncho or a real poncho?

 

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Ben,

 Marco Rubio's political career has been funded and promoted by the Koch brothers.  They were looking for intelligent salesmen who could appeal to Hispanic voters. 

Rubio has backed the Koch agenda an estimated 98% of the time in the Senate-- including his repeated efforts to sabotage Obamacare and to reduce corporate taxes to their current lows.  (His one area of dissent was his support for the bi-partisan Senate Immigration Reform bill that the Tea Party House refused to pass.)

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/oct/27/patrick-murphy/patrick-murphy-marco-rubio-voted-98-percent-time-k/

In reality, the Koch/Rubio concept of "common good capitalism" is basically de-regulated, laissez faire, Gilded Age style Robber Baron-ism-- appropriately labeled by Duke University historian Nancy MacLean as, "misanthropic libertarianism."

Rubio is also a staunch climate change science denier-- a fossil fuel industry shill.   His employers, the Kochs, have spent millions on propaganda denying climate change science.  

In our protracted discussion of Donks vs. 'Phants,  I have enumerated for you the many substantive domestic policy differences between the modern Democratic Party and the modern Koch-aligned GOP-- on tax policy, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, education, environmental protection, climate change mitigation, voting rights, etc.-- but the facts I post always seem to go into one of your ears and out the other.

In that sense you, certainly, do seem to have an open mind... 🤥

In truth, it is simple minded and toxic to push the false narrative that there are no substantive differences between Donks and 'Phants.   As an example, the 'Phants passed two House budget bills after 2010 that would have, essentially, abolished Medicare-- turning it into a Koch/Paul Ryan Voucher Care scam!

I would urge you to study the historic impact that Medicare has had on reducing senior poverty in the U.S.

No doubt, both political parties have been corrupted by money, and the Donks have, unfortunately kow towed to the military-industrial complex since 11/22/63...

BUT almost all significant, progressive legislation of the past century has been accomplished by the Democratic Party-- e.g., the Social Security Act, the Securities Exchange Act, the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts, Medicare, Medicaid, and Obamacare. 

Nixon deserves some credit for creating the EPA-- but look at what Reagan, the Bushes, and Trump did to undermine environmental protection!  Need I mention the records of James Watt, Dick Cheney, and Scott Pruitt on environmental protection?  Geez...they were all fossil fuel industry factotums who actively sought to roll back Clean Air and Clean Water protection in the U.S.!

Those are your 'Phants...

If Jack and Bobby Kennedy could see what the Republican Party has become in the 21st century, they would roll over in their graves!

So would Dwight Eisenhower.

But more importantly, do you have any old Frank Zappa records?

[Ron Bulman]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

But more importantly, do you have any old Frank Zappa records?

W can well speak for himself.  But maybe more important is do you appreciate Zappa's sarcasm?

I dare you all to watch this all the way through and not laugh. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Ron Bulman

[Kirk Gallaway]

On 12/9/2021 at 11:36 PM, Greg Doudna said:

agree with that analysis. Someone earlier asked who would JFK support today? That is just obvious: he would be a Democrat supporting Biden. Trump is like General Edwin Walker, and the supporters of Trump are the same kind of people who supported General Walker. There is your right-wing populism. Or the later populist George Wallace as another parallel to populist Trump today. Pox on both houses logic: Kennedy vs. General Edwin Walker. Kennedy vs. George Wallace ... all the same ... except no, it is not all the same. In terms of the major parties, even small differences have big consequences.

I agree completely Greg. Forgive me if I segue, but I think Ben wants to see Tucker Carlson as the dashing 21st century JFK. The continual harping on Fox News about  either the tyranny of the government "deep state" or the ineffectiveness of the government (figure that one out!) is really the most stark  corporate state messaging among the major networks, though masked in a phony populism. The goal is to influence public opinion,toward a long range goal of stripping  down the size of government to a time period before we were born and 2)privatize whatever functions of the government that are left. Now he gets sucked in by Marco Rubio?

watch Tucker get punked and come undone in this segment with Rutger Bregman

 

 

The Republican strategy is so obvious it's hard to believe it's worked for so long.

"Government doesn't work so. Vote for me!" Then problems inevitably happen and their response is "see told you government doesn't work. Vote for me!" They have a built in excuse for every failure they have.

They've literally campaigned for 50 years on the idea that if they get elected they will do nothing and a lot of voters are okay with it because they are convinced government is the problem. When it's so obvious they are the reason government is the problem, because they literally campaign on making government worse.

Then a problem happens, a government responds poorly and their voters sit there with a suprised Pikachu face and go, must be the Democrats!

 

Ok, Some guy I read on twitter

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

W can well speak for himself.  But maybe more important is do you appreciate Zappa's sarcasm?

I dare you all to watch this all the way through and not laugh. 

Despite prevailing sentiments, I am human, and I laughed. 

[Kirk Gallaway]

14 hours ago, Bill Fite said:

I always liked another smart guy's summary of the 2 parties:

"The Republicans stand for nothing but unmitigated greed and evil wrapped in the American flag.

The Democrats stand for nothing but wanting to be Republicans"

That guy was the late great Frank Zappa.

Bill: I'm a old Zappa fan, been to a few concerts, , but I couldn't find that quote directly anywhere, though it does sound like his writing style..But here are other ones I did find.

We often are explaining to Ben the dangers of "false equivalency", but a warning must go out to all those who would  use our literary heroes, (just because they have none of their own ) to further their own evil ends!

 

"1993- There's an incredible rise in racist and fascist attitudes here, most of them being helped along by the Republican Party

 

 

"With a big old lie, and a flag and a pie, and a bomb and bible, most folks are just liable to buy any lie, anyplace, anytime."<br><br>When the lie gets so big, and the pockets so deep, and the facts get forgotten, the Republican trick can be played out again. People please tell me when, we'll be rid of these men." Frank Zappa, circa, 1988<b

****

This one starts basically the same as yours, Bill.

Republicans stand for raw, unbridled evil and greed and ignorance smothered in balloons and ribbons.”

******

You may have meant this, there is that comparison but wanting to sound as Republican as possible.

 

"I've come to the conclusion that there's only one party in this country and it's divided into two parts: Republicans and Republican wannabes. Republicans stand for evil, corruption, manipulation, greed- everything that Americans think is okay after being conditioned to it during the eighties. Republicans stand for all the values that Americans now hold dear. Plus they have more balloons than God, and for a nation raised on cartoons, that tells you something. Anybody with balloons, they're okay. They don't tell you what kind of crippled people had to blow those suckers up. The Democrats have no agenda, and when they speak on any topic, they want to sound as Republican as possible while still finding a way to retain the pork.

 

*****

Republican is fine, if your a millionaire. Democrats is fair, if all you own is what you wear. Neither of them’s really right, cause neither of them care.

*****

 

 

We pretend to be a free society, and we pretend to be an adult society, but if you look at the facts, our news is just as contrived and controlled as  Pravda.

 

 

Politics is a branch of the entertainment industry

 

[Benjamin Cole]

Boston Globe, 12/11/21

"LONDON — A British court ruled Friday that Julian Assange can be extradited to the United States to face charges that could result in decades of jail time, reversing a lower-court decision in the long-running case against the embattled WikiLeaks founder.

The ruling was a victory, at least for now, for the Biden administration, which has pursued an effort to prosecute Assange begun under the Trump administration. But Assange will seek to appeal the decision to Britain’s Supreme Court, according to his legal team.

The Justice Department’s decision to charge Assange under the Espionage Act in connection with obtaining and publishing secret government documents has raised novel First Amendment issues and alarmed advocates of media freedom. But because he has been fighting extradition, those questions have not been litigated, and his transfer to the United States could set off a momentous constitutional battle."

 

---30---

Mr. Tweedledee, meet Mr. Tweedledum.