The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Kirk Gallaway]

11 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

 

Like I've said, we're living through history. Every day. Enjoy it. Savor it. This is bigger than Watergate.

 

Yeah , that looks like  the line up  of Ben's All Stars that he's hoping to transform  the Republican Party with!

Edited December 15, 2021 by Kirk Gallaway

[Matt Allison]

If you read the Twitter accounts of any of the above Congress members, you will be appalled at the abhorrent reality of their mere existence. They are a disgrace to the United States.

[Benjamin Cole]

Chief Executive of the United Kingdom Health Security Agency (UHKSA) Dr. Jenny Harries (pictured) stated on Wednesday that the Omicron coronavirus variant is the "most significant threat to public health since start of the pandemic."

Harries predicted that the number of new daily cases in the upcoming days would be "staggeringly high" due to the variant, but admitted that it was too early to tell how serious the new infections will be.

The UK is speeding up its booster campaign in light of the rise in cases and in order to better fight the "Omicron emergency", as officials are hopeful that no new restrictions will be introduced before the holidays.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

The problem is Malone has no current clinical experience with patients who have been diagnosed with other diseases or CV. He apparently has contracted it himself, in spite of not being a clinical physician working with patients (he must not understand masks - back to school time!). He asserts he's the "inventor" and may indeed have written papers on it but he is in no way an authority on CV or it's vaccines in the same way as the scientists and physicians who developed the vaccines and did test them. He's never done peer reviewed double blind studies of the vaccines nor does he sit on any boards who do. Of course he fits the narrative Hannity et al want to broadcast and is amenable to the publicity he gets, as I'm sure you're aware.

Many seriously ill people have no recourse other than to wait for the unvaccinated CV patients to clear - they often can't because the elderly who live in assisted living can't be released back to where they came from, rendering the hospitals into hotels. 

My wife and by extension myself get tired of arguing with ignorant people who couldn't care a less about anyone but themselves while she risks her life and other innocent people get the benefit of their selfishness. It would be different if CV infection were unavoidable but at this point a solution has been provided that is simple and available to all in the US and UK.

This is the tactic - discredit when they speak out. Although Dr Peter McCullough has largely avoided this, despite his advocacy of early treatment. 
We have multiple others in the same boat as Malone. Many who advocate double-blind studies. 
 

Last time I looked there were studies on the CDC website discrediting the efficiency of wearing masks. Dr Fauci’s emails indicate this to he the case. Which makes them a psychological tool. 
 

In contrast in the UK, we have been led to be terrified that hospitals will be overwhelmed and they never have in the vast majority of towns, cities etc. We have an average age of death of Covid in the UK of 82.5 and an average normal life expectancy of 81 of everything else. People would do well to try and understand the context of that. Meanwhile we are turning away cancer patients, to prioritise booster shots. While we are seeing studies from all over the place that assert natural immunity is between 6 and 13 times stronger than a vaccinated person. What we’re doing with these measures is causing a multitude of deaths for other reasons, it isn’t fair on people who have paid their taxes into a health system that is now failing them. We’re monetarily incentivising Dr’s to abandon other healthcare, so they can make £30 per shot. They set up clinics that only do shots as it’s incredibly profitable per day. Despite it being ruinous to Dr’s reputations speaking out, we have an ever growing list objecting to this senseless top down governance. 
 

Regarding your last point, we know a % of the population is always ignorant and that is commonplace to experience that in healthcare. We have had plenty of other preventable deaths that we aren’t up in arms about and viral infections. Your reaction comes down to data and must be proportionate. 
The worrying trend is intellectuals speaking out about this, giving serious reservations, not even so much about the jabs, their efficacy or side effects, more about government exploiting the situation to reduce freedoms. What most people are guilty of his having their eyes on the present particularly when afraid. Nobody has their eyes on the future. There are people planning ours that weren’t elected and this pandemic is the conduit. We could not be more distracted at this moment. 
 

PS Before I am accused of lacking compassion. The virus will kill my father, I am sure. He understands the cost benefit situation and what we are doing to society with these measures. It benefits one group of people only. 

[Steve Thomas]

I have longed believed that we have returned to the days of the John Birch Society- with terrorizing school boards, and book burning and all:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/dave-bronson-admits-turning-off-fluoride-in-anchorage-water-during-in-person-mayoral-visit?ref=home?ref=home

The outspoken mayor of Anchorage, Alaska, has been forced to admit he turned off the fluoridation of the city’s water supply for around five hours before discovering that he wasn’t actually allowed to do that. Last weekend, Mayor Dave Bronson—who made headlines this year for his defense of anti-vaccine protesters who wore the yellow Star of David to signal their supposed oppression—denied claims that he meddled with the city’s water supply. However, in a Tuesday statement, he admitted it. Bronson’s office claimed workers complained to him that fluoride “burned the eyes and throats of staff who handled it,” leading to his decision to turn off the supply. However, that claim was disputed by union leaders who represent the workers. “It doesn’t make any sense,” said president of the Anchorage Municipal Employees Association, Jon Cecil. Conspiracists have been obsessed with the fluoridation of drinking water since the 1950s, falsely claiming that it’s a public-health risk or some form of population control. Bronson’s office said the supply was turned back on five hours after it was switched off after the action was found to violate the city’s municipal code.

Read it at Alaska Republic

Steve Thomas

[John Butler]

4 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Chief Executive of the United Kingdom Health Security Agency (UHKSA) Dr. Jenny Harries (pictured) stated on Wednesday that the Omicron coronavirus variant is the "most significant threat to public health since start of the pandemic."

Harries predicted that the number of new daily cases in the upcoming days would be "staggeringly high" due to the variant, but admitted that it was too early to tell how serious the new infections will be.

The UK is speeding up its booster campaign in light of the rise in cases and in order to better fight the "Omicron emergency", as officials are hopeful that no new restrictions will be introduced before the holidays.

Current statistics suggest that 0.2285 percent of the people have died in the US from Covid.  800,000 deaths.  That's 99.7715 (pop. 350,000,000) percent who survive or are unaffected by the disease.  Another statistic says that 1 out of 100 old people catch covid and die.  99% odds is good enough for me not to be concerned.  Of course, when I say this, others say well, people have died.  And, that is true.  Are you afraid with these odds?  

Edited December 15, 2021 by John Butler

[W. Niederhut]

15 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

First Fox News tried to blame "Antifa" for the January 6th Trump "Stop the Steal" mob attack on Congress.

Then they tried to blame the "Deep State."

Now we finally get to read their January 6th text messages... 🤥

It looks like our Fox News fan, Ben, has derailed any discussion of Fox's historic January 6th chicanery into yet another debate about COVID vaccines.

Meanwhile, Fox has been aggressively attacking the January 6th investigation.  MAGA...

https://www.axios.com/fox-news-mark-meadows-january-6-8dbdb0c8-cc88-41f0-9ce6-0b65aa9d0769.html

Edited December 15, 2021 by W. Niederhut

[Kirk Gallaway]

Yes John, I'm not worried, but of course I'm vaccinated. If you're not vaccinated and unworried, it's not really about whether you're worried or not, you could pass it on to similar unworried people.

But we are beyond the extreme lock down phase. I think the evidence is this is more contagious but ultimately weaker. But for example, Things could get weird for the rest of the Football season with the current NFL rules.

****

Ben: If you start off the COVID-19 story by lying to the public about the origins of the virus...who believes what you have to say next?

Made in Wuhan lab...with funding from the US? Now, that is a story that must be suppressed. The media people who would suppress such a story...would you believe any thing else they have to say? 

 

It would be,  but you haven't proven that at all Ben, just as you haven't proven that the FBI provoked the 1/6 break in to the Capitol, and are looking sillier by the minute for it.IMO  ..I think all of us here were aware of that possibility  before you could come and enlighten us, and I don't recall hearing anybody here doubting that that could be possible. Worth investigating,   But once it's here, so what? What does that have to do with the ongoing struggle of battling a pandemic?

 

The people who propagated that the disease was some "plandemic"used as a means to gain control of other groups were the most full of sh-t of all and have done the greatest disservice to those who are earnestly fighting the disease.

 

Vaccines work! It's true we don't know the long range  effects of some of these rna vaccines. It's true the manufacturers are released from liability. At some point there was a conscious choice made that the 1)public wasn't going to be able to put up with too many restrictions for too long, and 2) the economic damage would be overwhelming so a decision was made to go with our biopharma lobby. That's the way it's done in our style capitalism, big money wins out and the corporate states tentacles are thoroughly ensconsed in government. If a person doesn't want to take the chance of being vaccinated because he will have no legal recourse should he get sick, then any conscientious person must distance himself from outside people, obey all the protocols and their life will be restricted,they will not walk into public places without a mask and in many cases not be able to leave the country.

 

Always lies, lies, right? It's true, there might be other lies, but the only action I can say is an outright lie was telling people at the beginning they didn't have to wear a mask, when the real reason was that there was a mask shortage that was needed for the responders.

Then there's the public confusion because of  patchwork quilt decisions made by consensus in different regions. Execution mistakes, they botched testing early on, etc. Whatever double messages the medical establishment put out it was complicated many more times over by a chief executive who was working at odds with them.

But after that it's simply that they don't know,  and they're making errors in trying to find out.

 

Unfortunately when people finally concede to follow authority, they want to think that authority is infallible and act betrayed when part of the process is just trial and error, and sometimes previous policies were wrong. People didn't know at first that transmissibility is lessened out doors. People didn't know at first it was an airborne disease and everybody was using bleach everywhere and I know I was paranoid touching doorknobs.

You can strike out about the profit motive in a capitalist economy, but outside of that , it's not anything that "ominous deep state". It was a non rehearsed emergency response to a pandemic.IMO

 

[W. Niederhut]

Speaking of lies, this just in...  🤥

 

 

[Bob Ness]

4 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

This is the tactic - discredit when they speak out. Although Dr Peter McCullough has largely avoided this, despite his advocacy of early treatment. 
We have multiple others in the same boat as Malone. Many who advocate double-blind studies. 
 

Last time I looked there were studies on the CDC website discrediting the efficiency of wearing masks. Dr Fauci’s emails indicate this to he the case. Which makes them a psychological tool. 
 

In contrast in the UK, we have been led to be terrified that hospitals will be overwhelmed and they never have in the vast majority of towns, cities etc. We have an average age of death of Covid in the UK of 82.5 and an average normal life expectancy of 81 of everything else. People would do well to try and understand the context of that. Meanwhile we are turning away cancer patients, to prioritise booster shots. While we are seeing studies from all over the place that assert natural immunity is between 6 and 13 times stronger than a vaccinated person. What we’re doing with these measures is causing a multitude of deaths for other reasons, it isn’t fair on people who have paid their taxes into a health system that is now failing them. We’re monetarily incentivising Dr’s to abandon other healthcare, so they can make £30 per shot. They set up clinics that only do shots as it’s incredibly profitable per day. Despite it being ruinous to Dr’s reputations speaking out, we have an ever growing list objecting to this senseless top down governance. 
 

Regarding your last point, we know a % of the population is always ignorant and that is commonplace to experience that in healthcare. We have had plenty of other preventable deaths that we aren’t up in arms about and viral infections. Your reaction comes down to data and must be proportionate. 
The worrying trend is intellectuals speaking out about this, giving serious reservations, not even so much about the jabs, their efficacy or side effects, more about government exploiting the situation to reduce freedoms. What most people are guilty of his having their eyes on the present particularly when afraid. Nobody has their eyes on the future. There are people planning ours that weren’t elected and this pandemic is the conduit. We could not be more distracted at this moment. 
 

PS Before I am accused of lacking compassion. The virus will kill my father, I am sure. He understands the cost benefit situation and what we are doing to society with these measures. It benefits one group of people only. 

Malone and McCullough speaking as experts on the matter makes about as much sense as asking a Chiropractor. They've been rightly criticized for spreading nonsense and overstating their qualifications.

Masks don't work? WTF? 

Doctors and hospitals don't make more money on CV patients. That's ridiculous.

You or anyone else calling into question the motives and intent of my wife or the thousands of other health care professionals who have been severely impacted and are at risk over a bunch of idiotic assertions made by snake oil salesman is beyond insulting. You can just FO.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Bob Ness

[Bob Ness]

22 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

This response exemplifies a point-of-view known in much of the rest of the world as “American exceptionalism”. It features a psychological projection which fuses state institutions - such as the military and judiciary - with the individual, and weirdly embodies such institutions within the individual’s personal moral universe. I would never argue that Bob as a person would advocate war crimes, but as can be seen here he is capable of excusing or rationalizing or downplaying the incredibly destructive misuse of US military power as exhibited since 2003 as merely a “mess”.

Here are some obvious questions:

If the military-industrial-complex has “legal authority” from the citizens of USA and is in fact an “extension” of these citizens, then where does legal responsibility for the massive application of military violence since 2003 begin or end? The institutional response to the “Collateral Murder” video, leaked by Manning and published by Wikileaks, does not indicate that there is any responsibility at all.

In light of the documented record which shows that the attack on Iraq in 2003 (which began the events which led to the deaths of a million persons including hundreds of thousands of civilians) was the result of deliberate high-level decisions to repudiate the United Nations Charter and lie to both the people of the United States and the rest of the world to do so, how is it even possible to portray this as a (presumably) noble effort to “unencomber the people of Iraq and Afghanistan”? Note that few in Iraq or Afghanistan asked the U.S. to do this or had any say in the decision-making at all. Does “American exceptionalism” give legal authority to the United States to override international law and make extremely consequential unilateral decisions which results in widespread death and destruction?

It seems the answer to the preceding question must be “yes” in order to then assert that efforts to expose the extent and consequence of this unilateral application of military violence is the true crime and that the initiators and perpetrators of this very serious breach of international law are in fact the “victims” of this exposure.

How is it even possible that the exposure of the extent and consequence of the massive unilateral application of military violence could make things “worse” for the “unfortunate” millions of persons who have been killed, wounded, or displaced by the violence? Do you believe that the millions of persons negatively affected by this violence should rationalize their plight as something that is merely “sad” or just a “mess”? 

Jeff- I'm sorry if my adjectives don't adequately capture the outrage you feel is required to express at what happened and is currently affecting people there. In no way was I a supporter of either action and in fact argued with other people about it to the extent I lost longtime friends. I am very well aware but could hardly imagine the pain many thousands of people suffering in those regions have to live with every moment of the day.

In fact, you're ignoring the 750,000 (Amnesty International) lives of children that were lost between 1991 and 2000 in Iraq after the first Gulf War, where sanctions imposed by Bush 1 resulted in Sadam starving his population and eviscerating any kind of health care, internally and through NGOs. Clinton had to throw his fair share in there too, partially by bombing one of the only pharmaceutical factories permitted to import drugs under the sanctions, making basic illnesses and afflictions lethal. That bombing, by the way, was covered by MSM who discovered the pretext for the attack was the CIA collection of what was said to be a "precursor element" to VX gas but actually turned out to be a version of a chemical commonly used in fertilizer. I called *gasp* and confirmed some of the details of that situation with a source at Sandia National Laboratories, who was mentioned in the mainstream newpaper article. He went through in painstaking detail (most of which I didn't understand) how the CIA screwed it up and was very open and forthcoming. I didn't believe the excuse - it seemed more likely Clinton was punishing Sadam for some embarrassing thing or the other he was doing at the time. The memory is hazy. The information was easy to get.

The point I am bringing up is I could accuse you of not caring about the Kurds, children and who knows how many Shi'a and other perceived enemies of Sadam who were slaughtered during his regime. It's interesting you have specifically and by date completely edited those victims out of your narrative. Perhaps because someone other than the US bears responsibility for at least a portion of those souls?

Of course, I know you do care about them but I'm trying to illustrate a point. Assange and Wikileaks blundered the information they were entrusted with, first by exposing their sources and breaking their promises to them (not really a concern to the US) and then by releasing information to our adversaries and their agents which will affect innumerable people, many of whom are innocent. That and the methods by which the information was obtained is what the US is taking him to task for. He had the option of taking the material and exposing the incidents and information relevant to the points you're making (I believe this is what Poitras et al did with Snowden's) and defending his decisions. Instead, the material was obtained illegally and then ceremoniously dumped to the public which included adversaries who could do damage to our legitimate interests and pose a threat to innocent people.

If someone was to break into your house, steal your computer and find you didn't pay your taxes, they couldn't very well claim that as their defense when they came to answer in court about the burglary. Any evidence obtained from the burglary wouldn't be allowed in court (could make the news though!) and the tax authorities would need to obtain that information through warrants and other methods. It's conceivable a prosecutor, judge or jury could take into account that the burglar had motives and other reasons to justify the burglary and reflect that in the charges or sentence. Assange has decided to avoid the process entirely, for more than ten years, and the chickens have come home to roost.

The US has engaged in innumerable unjustified actions which I consider war crimes but those are assertions that play out in a different venue. Unfortunately, that usually means newspapers and history books. In my view Bush and Cheney should be the first against the proverbial wall when it comes to that.

As I've said on a few different occasions in this thread, the efforts of Wikileaks to expose crimes of any military is worthy but appears (to me and others) to be done partially as an act of promotion and irresponsible retribution as witnessed by their mishandling of information critical to the lives of innocent people. The mishandling, whether intentional or due to amateurism, delegitimizes the effort and exposes it to legal consequences that didn't have to occur. 

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, Bob Ness said:

Malone and McCullough speaking as experts on the matter makes about as much sense as asking a Chiropractor. They've been rightly criticized for spreading nonsense and overstating their qualifications.

Masks don't work? WTF? 

Doctors and hospitals don't make more money on CV patients. That's ridiculous.

You or anyone else calling into question the motives and intent of my wife or the thousands of other health care professionals who have been severely impacted and are at risk over a bunch of idiotic assertions made by snake oil salesman is beyond insulting. You can just FO.

Ahhh, doubling down on the discrediting. As if it adds to merit. 
 

You’re well into this “mass psychosis” aren’t you. Have a read of one of the studies about the effectiveness of masks. I believe you can find two or three on the CDC website. Or, you can not look, as it challenges your thinking. Just stick your head in the sand. 
 

Dr’s are getting between £15 & £30 for every jab administered in the UK. If you actually looked beneath the surface, you’d see lots of ways people are profiting from this. It’s unbelievable. In Austria you can have free sex with a women (prostitute) directly after having your jab. I wonder how that sits with any morality that you have?! You’ve said to me that you have a partner in the medical profession; try asking her who is profiting, and how. This is the issue with a dumbed down population who aren’t thinking. 

Oh, I am the snake oil salesman? You are are the regular customer, who keeps coming back for more. Do you understand how top-down structures work? Christ! 
 

 

[Chris Davidson]

11 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

If you read the Twitter accounts of any of the above Congress members, you will be appalled at the abhorrent reality of their mere existence. They are a disgrace to the United States.

Possibly, some icing on the cake.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/two-jan-6-organizers-coming-025927382.html

 

[Bob Ness]

11 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

Ahhh, doubling down on the discrediting. As if it adds to merit. 
 

You’re well into this “mass psychosis” aren’t you. Have a read of one of the studies about the effectiveness of masks. I believe you can find two or three on the CDC website. Or, you can not look, as it challenges your thinking. Just stick your head in the sand. 
 

Dr’s are getting between £15 & £30 for every jab administered in the UK. If you actually looked beneath the surface, you’d see lots of ways people are profiting from this. It’s unbelievable. In Austria you can have free sex with a women (prostitute) directly after having your jab. I wonder how that sits with any morality that you have?! You’ve said to me that you have a partner in the medical profession; try asking her who is profiting, and how. This is the issue with a dumbed down population who aren’t thinking. 

Oh, I am the snake oil salesman? You are are the regular customer, who keeps coming back for more. Do you understand how top-down structures work? Christ! 
 

 

No I'm not doubling down. I'm saying to you FO. You don't know what you're talking about yet think you do. Again. FO.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Bob Ness said:

No I'm not doubling down. I'm saying to you FO. You don't know what you're talking about yet think you do. Again. FO.

Ok, Bob. Just don’t open your trap if you haven’t done the reading, as you might hear things that make you feel uneasy, or fragile.