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The inevitable end result of our last 56 years


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32 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said:

Bob - can you explain exactly how a military-industrial complex responsible since 2003 for the deaths of almost a million persons and the displacement of a staggering 38 million persons is in fact the victim, because a radical journalistic project called Wikileaks was formed to assist in exposing the obvious crimes committed by an unaccountable elite in this specific situation?

Yes. Because the MIC you're talking about has the legal authority given by the citizens of the United States of America to classify information and withhold it from public view .on national security grounds. That makes them and by extension the people of the United States, it's allies, any other entity whose information was exposed and individuals whose identities were revealed without their permission "victims". Larding your comments with ridiculous hyperbole and faux shock about the aftermath of those events implies to me that you, Wikileaks and Helen Keller were the only people who didn't know what was going on until WikiLeaks had their "epiphany". 

The MIC and people who agree with them would no doubt say that the WikiLeaks disclosures set back the efforts of the allies to unencomber the people of Iraq and Afghanistan of brutal rulers who themselves have slaughtered and tortured their own ken and those of their neighbors. I'm not saying that is or isn't the case but if true the numbers you cite include WikiLeaks contribution to the mess. In some minds that case can be made and neither you or I are the arbiters of that although we can have our opinions.

1 hour ago, Jeff Carter said:

Bob - do you think the “institutions” which have been “assembled to inspect and oversee”  have been successful in light of the physical displacement of 38 million people since 2003? What exactly accomplishes the “earnest desire to right wrongs” done “properly”? Does that involve the NY Times and The Washington Post? So Assange is “problematic” - should he then be condemned to spend the rest of his life in a U.S. SuperMax prison?  Please explain.

Please explain how you sentenced him to life in prison already? A tad premature I'd say.

I've certainly been aware of quite a bit of the ridiculous mess that was made and quite a few other things as well. In fact I knew it would happen before we went into Iraq and had sources in Syria as well. What's stupifying to me is how anyone doesn't know that military operations like the Iraq invasion results  in several times the casualties in the civilian population than in the armed forces and combatants. WikiLeaks  contribution to the world would have been multiplied several times over if they had taken off their hacker hat's and put on their lawyer hat's. As I said before they could have protected their sources and the information and still made their disclosures. They were careless and have made it worse for the one million dead and 23 million displaced unfortunates. It's truly very sad.

 

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Well, it has been another disastrous week at the Education Forum for Ben and Jeff-- our resident January 6th Coup and Russia-gate deniers.* 🤥

But, at least, Ben and Jeff have each other-- to help ignore and dodge rebuttals, while re-posting their own bunk.

Ben's "uncoordinated scrum" at the Capitol on January 6th has turned out to be a PowerPoint organized plot involving Trump's Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, Steve Bannon's Willard Hotel goon squad, and Republican members of Congress!  So much for Trump's "No Coordination" meme.  We can file that with his, "No Collusion" jingle about Russia-gate.

And Jeff's beloved Durham Report has turned out to be another Bill Barr nothing burger to deflect attention from the damning Russia-gate evidence.   Unfortunately for the U.S., Trump was Putin's useful idiot.

*House Panel To ID Republican Lawmakers Newly Linked To Capitol Riot Turmoil

Information from Mark Meadows "has been quite revealing about members of Congress involved in the activities of January 6,” said Rep. Bennie Thompson.
 
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10 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Chris B. --

The way the mass media is demonizing and calling for censoring Joe Rogan is...spooky.

On COVID-19, I think the vaccines are fine, and should be free, but only for those who want them. After the elderly were voluntarily vaccinated I thought the fight was done. 

I do not understand the forced vaccination of children, who face extremely small risks from C19, nor the endless travel bans, vaccination police, lockdowns, etc. 

The reasonable balance has been lost...a parallel is letting the national security guys determine military sending and posture. 

BTW, I strongly suspect the Wuhan virus resulted from a lab leak. I put the odds at 10-1.

But...the lab leak was a debunked conspiracy theory. Right? 

Now, the same guys who "debunked" the Wuhan lab leak want me to believe...you name it. Sorry, the trust is gone. 

 

Are they fine? We have multiple funeral directors in the UK posting videos about morgues that they are visiting full of still born babies. The UK government is carrying out enquiries on the lost pregnancies and stillborns . MSM is doing its best to cover up blood clots, heart attacks, myocarditis and other serious conditions. I would say there are at the very least, some very serious questions. We can talk VAERS and Yellow card systems and their efficiency too. 
 

The Rogan thing is obvious to me, he has a rocky road ahead. 
 

The lab leak is the dominant theory. But, people don’t like listening to scientists who are not on their side, it challenges their belief structures. 
 

FB is silent, as is Insta. Rumble & Telegram as well as alternative media are alive with this stuff. It’s absolutely shocking. 
 

Anyway, back to the cheery world of Dems vs Reps arguing. 🙂 

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1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Well, it has been another disastrous week at the Education Forum for Ben and Jeff-- our resident January 6th Coup and Russia-gate deniers.* 🤥

But, at least, Ben and Jeff have each other-- to help ignore and dodge rebuttals, while re-posting their own bunk.

Ben's "uncoordinated scrum" at the Capitol on January 6th has turned out to be a PowerPoint organized plot involving Trump's Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, Steve Bannon's Willard Hotel goon squad, and Republican members of Congress!  So much for Trump's "No Coordination" meme.  We can file that with his, "No Collusion" jingle about Russia-gate.

And Jeff's beloved Durham Report has turned out to be another Bill Barr nothing burger to deflect attention from the damning Russia-gate evidence.   Unfortunately for the U.S., Trump was Putin's useful idiot.

*House Panel To ID Republican Lawmakers Newly Linked To Capitol Riot Turmoil

Information from Mark Meadows "has been quite revealing about members of Congress involved in the activities of January 6,” said Rep. Bennie Thompson.
 

Exactly W.! while super sleuth Ben's most mentioned, 1/06 riots figure of of 2021,was Buffalo horns.

For us, we're transitioning from "scrum" to scrumptious. But expect Ben to keep pulling out his buffalo horns. To his tribe, It would be too humiliating to change course now.

 

Re: Assange You know I looked and come this spring, it will have been 10 years since Assange first started hiding in the Ecuadorian embassy. It would be interesting if there were any good journalists who weren't sycophants who could ask the question I would. "Did you really envision when you first took refuge, that you'd be confined for 10 years, and "Did you ever think of getting defiant and trying  to throw the state's case in their face against them?"

I assume he first  had visions of being a "privileged white  Mandela" martyr figure strolling around the embassy courtyard which could have some unique appeal to his followers. But then he ends up carrying water for what could have been the biggest First Amendment despot in our country's history. Nice Move!

I don't think Bob or Jeff really knows the case against Assange, but Bob knows he doesn't know. To Jeff it doesn't matter because there just couldn't be anything worth protecting. Just like Ben, who finds himself strange bedfellows with Dick Cheney, Richard Armitage and Scooter Libby. Try looking up Valerie Plame.

Edited by Kirk Gallaway
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9 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

Yes. Because the MIC you're talking about has the legal authority given by the citizens of the United States of America to classify information and withhold it from public view .on national security grounds. That makes them and by extension the people of the United States, it's allies, any other entity whose information was exposed and individuals whose identities were revealed without their permission "victims". Larding your comments with ridiculous hyperbole and faux shock about the aftermath of those events implies to me that you, Wikileaks and Helen Keller were the only people who didn't know what was going on until WikiLeaks had their "epiphany". 

The MIC and people who agree with them would no doubt say that the WikiLeaks disclosures set back the efforts of the allies to unencomber the people of Iraq and Afghanistan of brutal rulers who themselves have slaughtered and tortured their own ken and those of their neighbors. I'm not saying that is or isn't the case but if true the numbers you cite include WikiLeaks contribution to the mess. In some minds that case can be made and neither you or I are the arbiters of that although we can have our opinions.

Please explain how you sentenced him to life in prison already? A tad premature I'd say.

I've certainly been aware of quite a bit of the ridiculous mess that was made and quite a few other things as well. In fact I knew it would happen before we went into Iraq and had sources in Syria as well. What's stupifying to me is how anyone doesn't know that military operations like the Iraq invasion results  in several times the casualties in the civilian population than in the armed forces and combatants. WikiLeaks  contribution to the world would have been multiplied several times over if they had taken off their hacker hat's and put on their lawyer hat's. As I said before they could have protected their sources and the information and still made their disclosures. They were careless and have made it worse for the one million dead and 23 million displaced unfortunates. It's truly very sad.

 

This response exemplifies a point-of-view known in much of the rest of the world as “American exceptionalism”. It features a psychological projection which fuses state institutions - such as the military and judiciary - with the individual, and weirdly embodies such institutions within the individual’s personal moral universe. I would never argue that Bob as a person would advocate war crimes, but as can be seen here he is capable of excusing or rationalizing or downplaying the incredibly destructive misuse of US military power as exhibited since 2003 as merely a “mess”.

Here are some obvious questions:

If the military-industrial-complex has “legal authority” from the citizens of USA and is in fact an “extension” of these citizens, then where does legal responsibility for the massive application of military violence since 2003 begin or end? The institutional response to the “Collateral Murder” video, leaked by Manning and published by Wikileaks, does not indicate that there is any responsibility at all.

In light of the documented record which shows that the attack on Iraq in 2003 (which began the events which led to the deaths of a million persons including hundreds of thousands of civilians) was the result of deliberate high-level decisions to repudiate the United Nations Charter and lie to both the people of the United States and the rest of the world to do so, how is it even possible to portray this as a (presumably) noble effort to “unencomber the people of Iraq and Afghanistan”? Note that few in Iraq or Afghanistan asked the U.S. to do this or had any say in the decision-making at all. Does “American exceptionalism” give legal authority to the United States to override international law and make extremely consequential unilateral decisions which results in widespread death and destruction?

It seems the answer to the preceding question must be “yes” in order to then assert that efforts to expose the extent and consequence of this unilateral application of military violence is the true crime and that the initiators and perpetrators of this very serious breach of international law are in fact the “victims” of this exposure.

How is it even possible that the exposure of the extent and consequence of the massive unilateral application of military violence could make things “worse” for the “unfortunate” millions of persons who have been killed, wounded, or displaced by the violence? Do you believe that the millions of persons negatively affected by this violence should rationalize their plight as something that is merely “sad” or just a “mess”? 

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6 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

Are they fine? We have multiple funeral directors in the UK posting videos about morgues that they are visiting full of still born babies. The UK government is carrying out enquiries on the lost pregnancies and stillborns . MSM is doing its best to cover up blood clots, heart attacks, myocarditis and other serious conditions. I would say there are at the very least, some very serious questions. We can talk VAERS and Yellow card systems and their efficiency too. 
 

The Rogan thing is obvious to me, he has a rocky road ahead. 
 

The lab leak is the dominant theory. But, people don’t like listening to scientists who are not on their side, it challenges their belief structures. 
 

FB is silent, as is Insta. Rumble & Telegram as well as alternative media are alive with this stuff. It’s absolutely shocking. 
 

Anyway, back to the cheery world of Dems vs Reps arguing. 🙂 

"Anyway, back to the cheery world of Dems vs Reps arguing."--Chris B.

The purple with a hint of red vs. purple with a hint a blue. And some swirling. 

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7 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Well, it has been another disastrous week at the Education Forum for Ben and Jeff-- our resident January 6th Coup and Russia-gate deniers.* 🤥

But, at least, Ben and Jeff have each other-- to help ignore and dodge rebuttals, while re-posting their own bunk.

Ben's "uncoordinated scrum" at the Capitol on January 6th has turned out to be a PowerPoint organized plot involving Trump's Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, Steve Bannon's Willard Hotel goon squad, and Republican members of Congress!  So much for Trump's "No Coordination" meme.  We can file that with his, "No Collusion" jingle about Russia-gate.

And Jeff's beloved Durham Report has turned out to be another Bill Barr nothing burger to deflect attention from the damning Russia-gate evidence.   Unfortunately for the U.S., Trump was Putin's useful idiot.

*House Panel To ID Republican Lawmakers Newly Linked To Capitol Riot Turmoil

Information from Mark Meadows "has been quite revealing about members of Congress involved in the activities of January 6,” said Rep. Bennie Thompson.
 

"Ben's "uncoordinated scrum" at the Capitol on January 6th has turned out to be a PowerPoint organized plot involving Trump's Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, Steve Bannon's Willard Hotel goon squad, and Republican members of Congress! "---W.

I saw the PowerPoint...but so what? The whole thing looked nutty, and there was a plan to blame Trump's loss on China interference and hacking. Who's plan? To my knowledge, no one has blamed China for Trump's loss. 

 

So, the more important point, have you any evidence of connections between the scrum participants---texts, phone calls, a letter carried by pigeon--- and Trump Administration officials?  

As seen in courtroom documents, thousands upon thousands of texts and phone calls have been intercepted, and reproduced in court, from the scrum, mostly self-incriminating, and hooting the Capitol Police let them in. 

Some people believe Carlo Marcello had JFK murdered. Marcello had reasons (the Kennedys roughly deported him once), he had money, he knew the right kind of people. He was even close to David Ferrie. Marcello sure looks guilty. 

But...where is the evidence Marcello murdered JFK? Blakey looked, and couldn't find it, but that didn't stop Blakey from believing...until later, when he came to view the CIA as suspect. 

W, you have to have some evidence the scrum followed orders from the White House (and not, as more likely, from national security state agitators). 

A Powerpoint chart...a plan to blame China is not evidence. 

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25 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

Exactly that. 🙂 

"New York, New Jersey Experiencing Highest Spread Of Omicron Variant In Country, CDC Says"

Dec 15, 2021

CBS New York

---30---

Chris-- I certainly think any and all news regarding the vaccines is worth knowing, including the downsides.  

For me, the issue is more practical.

Does it make sense to fight a respiratory virus, which has very small risks for those under 65, by shutting down parts of an economy, forcing people to stay at home, or imposing onerous travel bans, and making people wear masks, ending school years and so on? 

This is the public health sector's Vietnam-Afghanistan. They want the war to go on forever.  They believe in their cause. People who have questions are not patriotic, or worse. The Wuhan virus has become an ideological battlefield. 

Evidently, we are losing the war on the Wuhan virus. It evolves, adapts, mutates without any costs to itself. But it does not quit. 

Spooky virus...infects not only primates, but felines, canines, deer and minks. 

Biologists used to talk about the "cross-species barrier" in virus transmission.  

But the Wuhan virus is not bothered with that. 

Made in Wuhan lab...with funding from the US? Now, that is a story that must be suppressed. 

The media people who would suppress such a story...would you believe any thing else they have to say? 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

The lab leak is the dominant theory. But, people don’t like listening to scientists who are not on their side, it challenges their belief structures.

Fortunately for me I live with a scientist who is a clinician with thousands of patients and an authority on the subject due to her three board certifications and residencies studying among other things virology and immunology.

I for one encourage her to consider taking time off and F%ck the covidiots who spread garbage like this largely because I tire of sending her off to work to risk her and my life for people who can't do simple stuff like get a vaccine and wear a mask. It's literally mind numbing stupidity going on 2 years and we can afford to let the bug kill people off until we figure it's safe to come back.

She's sworn those oaths and what-not and fortunately not all her patients show up with CV to her exam room (yes - many have) so here we sit daily listening to this stuff. Meanwhile, at the hospital, refer trucks in July were parked for bodies of the "anti-vaxxers" while somebody with a large mass in their neck can't get a biopsy for weeks because there are too many people in gurneys in the halls.

The stupidity is withering.

 

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3 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Does it make sense to fight a respiratory virus, which has very small risks for those under 65, by shutting down parts of an economy, forcing people to stay at home, or imposing onerous travel bans, and making people wear masks, ending school years and so on? 

 

It's more like a war on ignorance and poverty. The ignorance comes from the blizzard of "facts" spread around by that age old profession Snake Oil Sales and the poverty is what continues to repopulate the virus overseas for the most part.

From the beginning, if people had worn masks and practiced spacing and correct hygiene, the R Naught rate could have been lowered until such time as the vaccines came along. It needs to be lower than one by a good margin for the virus to subside in the population. A significant portion of the population refused to do so and Delta was the result. An extra year or so of all the fun stuff.

The good news is (I've been told by the wife) is that Omicron may be the sign that the virus is weakening (she's been right 100% of the time throughout the pandemic - masks, mutations, efficacy of the vax etc). I interpret that to mean it will be mutating into something more like the flu rather than a devastating respiratory illness.

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4 minutes ago, Bob Ness said:

It's more like a war on ignorance and poverty. The ignorance comes from the blizzard of "facts" spread around by that age old profession Snake Oil Sales and the poverty is what continues to repopulate the virus overseas for the most part.

From the beginning, if people had worn masks and practiced spacing and correct hygiene, the R Naught rate could have been lowered until such time as the vaccines came along. It needs to be lower than one by a good margin for the virus to subside in the population. A significant portion of the population refused to do so and Delta was the result. An extra year or so of all the fun stuff.

The good news is (I've been told by the wife) is that Omicron may be the sign that the virus is weakening (she's been right 100% of the time throughout the pandemic - masks, mutations, efficacy of the vax etc). I interpret that to mean it will be mutating into something more like the flu rather than a devastating respiratory illness.

Bob N.--

I happen to believe in the efficacy of vaccines. I got my shots. 

But...I understand why the public does not believe media anymore. 

When the M$M promotes a string of lies, and when public officials lie constantly...the lay public becomes suspicious. 

If you start off the COVID-19 story by lying to the public about the origins of the virus...who believes what you have to say next?

Authority figures of all stripes has discredited themselves, on the JFKA, the C19 origins, the Russiagate hoax, the Brian Sicknick murder story, the Hunter Biden laptop story....

Sheesh, Biden drone-bombed the terrorist-ISIS mob that did the Kabul airport bombing...except it turned out Biden murdered a family of 10, including children. 

So, people understand there are being fed narratives, not news....

And in fact, there are conflicts of interest in the world of medicine, and profit-seeking. Sweden suspended a Moderna vaccine. 

I am still not sure a Western democracy can contain C19. None have. You can call everybody stupid, but Germany and Great Britain are facing waves of new infections, as is New York. 

China has had some success. To suppress a virus, that is what it takes. Not my cup of tea. 

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