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The inevitable end result of our last 56 years


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6 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Oh, is it possible Ben? When you get that confirmation bias going Ben, you just don't listen. I've told you , your arrest records show practically no one was arrested at the capitol, and you extrapolate from that that everyone was physically searched and  they only found one firearm? Why would you assume everyone was searched?  There is no evidence of that. They're obviously going to conceal their weapons.

How did they know to charge people? I already told you, they arrested them from photographs, their online postings and tipsters.

https://www.usatoday.com/storytelling/capitol-riot-mob-arrests/

*****

You largely ignore your own evidence.  Your list isn't complete but in just scouring the first half, even excluding charges of acts of physical violence, violent entry,obstruction of police officers. Let's just focus on real serious stuff, firearms, assault on police officers, and possession of dangerous weapons. As I say, I've scanned about a third of your records.

It's probably 3 times these numbers.

Firearms-2

Assault on Police Officers- 16 charges.

Possession of dangerous weapons-30 charges  

Obviously it would be good to know specifically what the dangerous weapons are, but as W. said. Bats, clubs, bear mace to name a few. Let's not have any discussion that there aren't dangerous weapons outside of firearms. And these are some big American boys!

Some scrum!

 

.

 

 

Flagpoles were often listed as a weapon, in arrest reports.

If 600 halfwits can overpower two police department with a combined force of 6,000...yes, I call that a mishandled scrum, or possibly an instigated incident. 

Call in the National Guard! The Pentagon!  NATO!  Danger, Will Robinson, danger! 

And much heavier censorship of Facebook is needed. Jan. 6 happened because of Facebook. That former Facebook weenie-woman said so, and she is the national heroine of the week.  

You don't see where this is headed? 600 halfwits in the Capitol=Much greater censorship of "unfettered" social media. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Flagpoles were often listed as a weapon, in arrest reports.

If 600 halfwits can overpower two police department with a combined force of 6,000...yes, I call that a mishandled scrum, or possibly an instigated incident. 

Call in the National Guard! The Pentagon!  NATO!  Danger, Will Robinson, danger! 

And much heavier censorship of Facebook is needed. Jan. 6 happened because of Facebook. That former Facebook weenie-woman said so, and she is the national heroine of the week.  

You don't see where this is headed? 600 halfwits in the Capitol=Much greater censorship of "unfettered" social media. 

 

Ben,

     Have you looked into the question of why the Capitol was so poorly defended on January 6th-- especially when the FBI had informants in the ranks of the insurrectionists?

     How do you explain that?

     The latest story is the recent report that the National Park police on the Washington mall were overwhelmed by the Trump mob as early as 9:00 AM-- and had, apparently, been told to stand down.

     Have you considered the possibility that Trump and his staff-- including Chris Miller-- deliberately failed to protect Congress and the Vice President from the Trump mob that was determined to block certification of the election?

    

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11 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Ben,

     Have you looked into the question of why the Capitol was so poorly defended on January 6th-- especially when the FBI had informants in the ranks of the insurrectionists?

     How do you explain that?

     The latest story is the recent report that the National Park police on the Washington mall were overwhelmed by the Trump mob as early as 9:00 AM-- and had, apparently, been told to stand down.

     Have you considered the possibility that Trump and his staff-- including Chris Miller-- deliberately failed to protect Congress and the Vice President from the Trump mob that was determined to block certification of the election?

    

W.-

I can't say I have made a deep study.

But can say you are way off base with your line of thinking, and here is why: 

1. The Capitol Police are a legislative agency and ultimately report to House and Senate leadership.  

https://www.uscp.gov/the-department/oversight

The Capitol Police do not report to the US President. The Capitol Police, with a force of 2,300, appeared to stand down on 1/6. I do not know why, but it was not on orders from Trump. 

2. The DC Metropolitan Police, force 3,500, reports to the DC Chief of Police, who is appointed by the Mayor of DC, who is selected by the city councilors, who are elected by the (heavily Democratic) voters of DC. So, the Metro Police also do not report to a US President, and did not report to Trump. 

So, the two by-far largest police agencies in DC....seemed to stand down on 1/6. 

I do not know why, but it seems likely Trump had nothing to do with the entirely underwhelming police response on 1/6.

The two largest police agencies, who do not report to Trump and who certainly had the ability to protect the Capitol, did not. 

What is your answer? 

There is a long history of provocateurs  in public disturbances. I would not rule of provocateurs in the crowd, designed to make the Trumpers look bad. But...there were mostly halfwits in that scrum, judging from arrest reports. 

That's my story and I am sticking with it. 

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Ben. I knew you wouldn't answer any of my questions. Your assertion as to any  number of firearms  was  a completely skewed personal confirmation bias  talking out of your butt!

Ben:If 600 halfwits can overpower two police department with a combined force of 6,000..

You'll have a hard convincing anyone  that the police outnumbered the protestors 10 X1, but I am becoming convinced you could believe it. So now they're halfwits. When you were first here, you portrayed them as some nice blokes you'd gladly have a pint with at the local pub..

Never once could you conceive that possibly Trump could have a hand in this mismanagement, and though you recite the Fox protocols, does it really make sense that the police force are completely political and entirely controlled by the Democrats and the Republicans have no say at all?  Are you aware Trump had huge Law Enforcement support throughout the country but also within the rank and file of the Capitol Police? I've considered both sides of the argument, but as you say, it is important to you to" stick to your story". Ok

You are quite the tough talking Police Academy wicked taskmaster of the cop on the beat Ben. You repeatedly refer to this as a "scrum".

That's sort of a laugh.  If so, I wonder how long some rugby chaps would last in a true "American scrum"?  I would suspect in the words of MLK,

How long?.......not long!.

heh heh heh heh

Edited by Kirk Gallaway
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4 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Ben. I knew you wouldn't answer any of my questions. Your assertion as to any  number of firearms  was  a completely skewed personal confirmation bias  talking out of your butt!

Ben:If 600 halfwits can overpower two police department with a combined force of 6,000..

You'll have a hard convincing anyone  that the police outnumbered the protestors 10 X1, but I am becoming convinced you could believe it. So now they're halfwits. When you were first here, you portrayed them as some nice blokes you'd gladly have a pint with at the local pub..

Never once could you conceive that possibly Trump could have a hand in this mismanagement, and though you recite the Fox protocols, does it really make sense that the police force are completely political and entirely controlled by the Democrats and the Republicans have no say at all?  Are you aware Trump had huge Law Enforcement support throughout the country but also within the rank and file of the Capitol Police? I've considered both sides of the argument, but as you say, it is important to you to" stick to your story". Ok

You are quite the tough talking Police Academy wicked taskmaster of the cop on the beat Ben. You repeatedly refer to this as a "scrum".

That's sort of a laugh.  If so, I wonder how long some rugby chaps would last in a true "American scrum"?  I would suspect in the words of MLK,

How long?.......not long!.

heh heh heh heh

Kirk--

Not sure what you are driving at, but I have been fairly consistent in my description of the 1/6 scrum participants.  The marginalized, the gadflies, the mentally challenged, the outcasts. Mr Buffalo Horns. Perhaps I should retract the word "half-wits" as condescending and pejorative, but egads these people spell the word "certain" as "sertan."   

Given the size and scale of the Capitol Police and Metro DC Police...I stick with my observation the two large police departments, with small jurisdictions, were curiously ineffective on Jan. 6.  

 

 

 

 

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The simplest and most easily understood comparative analogy to put the insurrection into proper perspective regards the outrageous downplaying and now the obscene light punishments handed out to most of those tried is still:

If the violent attacking insurrection horde were Black Lives Matter extremists Trump would have given "shoot to kill" orders 15 minutes into the breach and Trump and all of his cult followers would be screaming daily from then to now that this was the worst and most threatening, terrifying, traumatizing attack against our Democracy...ever!

And those involved should be punished with ten years or more long prison sentences and as accessories to the event caused deaths to members of the Capital police.

And we all know this is exactly what the down players would be doing if the invading horde members were anyone but Trump inspired crazies.

And Trump actually watched the terrifying insurrection on TV for what ... two hours? Doing nothing to protect the members of Congress including his own VP who were under violent attack in all that time? Purposely ignoring desperate pleas to respond from several staff right around him?

Trump should be charged for that action. For sure the most criminally negligent one I've ever seen of a U.S. President in all my 70 years.

Edited by Joe Bauer
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Ben,

     Here are some old references on the subject of police complicity in the strange, lax security at the Capitol on January 6th.

     Many Capitol Police actually facilitated the Trump mob attack on Congress.

     And let's not forget that Mitch McConnell was the Senate Majority Leader on January 6th-- not Schumer.

 

1) Capitol Police official gave directions to pursue only 'anti-Trump' protesters on January 6th
An investigation found an official's radio transmission to "all outside units' attention" that they should not be "looking for any pro-Trump in the crowd"
www.politico.com/news/2021/04/21/capitol-officer-investigated-antitrump-protestors-484048

April 21, 2021

 

2)  Several Capitol police officers suspended, more than a dozen under investigation
www.washingtonpost.com/politics/capitol-police-officers-suspended/2021/01/11/0ee0e422-545f-11eb-a931-5b162d0d033d_story.html

January 11, 2021

Several U.S. Capitol Police officers have been suspended and more than a dozen others are under investigation for suspected involvement with or inappropriate support for the demonstration last week that turned into a deadly riot at the Capitol, according to members of Congress, police officials and staff members briefed on the developments.

Eight separate investigations have been launched into the actions of Capitol officers, according to one congressional aide who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe the status of the internal review.

In one of the cases, officers had posted what Capitol Police investigators found to be messages showing support for the rally on Wednesday that preceded the attack on the complex, including touting President Trump’s baseless contention that the election had been stolen through voter fraud, the aide said.


Investigators in another instance found that a Capitol officer had posted “inappropriate” images of President-elect Joe Biden on a social media account. The aide declined to describe the photographs.

 

3) I’ve Experienced U.S. Capitol Security Firsthand — And It Was Nothing Like The Rioters Saw
I was in the Capitol when disabled protesters were dragged out of their wheelchairs. Last week, rioters strolled right in
www.huffpost.com/entry/capitol-riot-trump-supporters_n_5ffc70ebc5b691806c4b11df

January 12, 2021

Excerpt

"The treatment my friends and I experience at the Capitol as advocates and activists stands in stark contrast with the way the Proud Boys and other rioters were treated on Jan. 6. Whereas I have come to expect metal detectors and strict enforcement of the rules that have kept the Capitol safe for over 200 years, the Capitol Police opened barricades for the rioters and waved them in despite their display of such overt symbols of hate as the Confederate flag and a “Camp Auschwitz” shirt.
 
This insurrection mounted by domestic terrorists at the urging of a sitting president was planned well in advance. Plans to “Storm the Capitol” were discussed on social media. Trump himself tweeted, “Big protest on January 6th. Be there, will be wild.”

As we all saw, it was indeed wild. As the insurrection unfolded, the Capitol Police seemed to be sparse and taken by surprise. In a city known for mass protests, a city that knows how to prepare, this complete lack of security was unthinkable.

This was no ordinary protest, either. The insurrectionists showed up with bombs and assault weapons. Their plans included not just stopping the certification of an election that was conducted freely and fairly without any evidence of fraud, but to do so by force. Even more concerning, the insurrection was planned for a day when both Vice President Mike Pence and Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, the first and second people in line for succession to the presidency, were present in the Capitol, and there were explicit calls to “Hang Mike Pence.”

I have lived in D.C. for over 20 years and have never been afraid of going to protest or just being near one. This was different, in no small part because of the way the rioters seemed to be treated like honored guests, posing for selfies on the Senate dais and parading through the halls of the House with the speaker’s lectern.

It’s hard to reconcile these images with my own experiences of entering the Capitol under tight security. For more than 200 years, the Capitol has been a solemn place of democracy. I do not always like what happens in the Capitol, but its halls have always been a place for serious reflection and action. They have always been secure.

On Jan. 6, the lackluster response to rioting Trump supporters put democracy in peril, and, at times, the Capitol looked more like the scene of a frat party than the seat of the United States Congress.

To those of us who live in D.C., another contrast was blatant. Just months earlier, when Black Lives Matter protests filled the streets of the city demanding justice for George Floyd, Breonna Taylor and the countless other Black lives lost to senseless police violence, we saw how D.C. can quickly mobilize a large and terrifying force when it has the will to do so.

For the Black Lives Matter protests over the summer, the National Guard was activated almost immediately. One of the most chilling sights from that time was the heavily armed, unmarked federal agents in military uniforms throughout the city.
 
When it came to Black Lives Matter protests, no show of power and might was too much. Law enforcement did not hesitate to use force or make arrests. Most notably, the National Guard tear-gassed a mostly Black, completely peaceful gathering in Lafayette Park across from the White House for the sole purpose of allowing Trump to take a photo of himself in front of a church holding a Bible backward.
This disparity in the way white supremacist terrorists and Black Lives Matter protesters were treated was blatant enough to be noted by President-elect Joe Biden when he said that “no one can tell me that if that had been a group of Black Lives Matter protesting yesterday, they wouldn’t have been treated very, very differently than the mob of thugs that stormed the Capitol.”
 
Yet I do not expect anything to change. The Proud Boys have been emboldened by the reception they got in Washington on Jan. 6, which fell just short of a warm welcome. White extremist groups are openly planning another attack the week of Jan. 20 when President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris will be sworn in to office, and The FBI has warned of plans for armed protests at all 50 state capitals. Across the city, neighbors are urging one another to take down Airbnb listings and to remove Black Lives Matter signs and rainbow flags from their windows for fear of being targeted.


It could not be clearer that there are different rules for domestic terrorists who are white and Black Lives Matter activists and their allies. Even the regular rules that apply to ordinary activists and advocates like me were swept aside. There has been no clear rebuke of the president’s role in inciting this insurrection and the deaths it caused, no sanction for shaking our democracy to its core.

On Jan. 6, there was a choice not to be prepared, to go easy on the white domestic terrorists who infiltrated the Capitol. There can be no clearer sign of who we are as a nation."

 

 

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Palm Beach Police Ball Will Enrich Trump, Whose Jan. 6 Mob Attacked Officers

By S.V. Date and Ryan J. Reilly 10/07/2021

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/palm-beach-police-trump_n_615f5c15e4b0cc44c50a53b8

“The Palm Beach Police and Fire Foundation is planning a fundraiser at Mar-a-Lago this winter that will likely put some quarter-million dollars into Donald Trump’s cash registers — despite the former president’s incitement of the Jan. 6 assault on the Capitol that led to the deaths of five police officers and injuries to 140 more.

The charity would not disclose how much it will be paying Trump’s for-profit South Florida club to host the Jan. 22, 2022, “Policemen’s and Fire Fighters’ Ball.” Tax filings with the IRS, however, show that it paid $235,012 in 2020, $214,760 in 2019 and $262,261 in 2018 in facility rental costs for the same event in those years, all of which were also held at Mar-a-Lago.”

“A spokesman for the Palm Beach Police Department said it was not involved in choosing the site. “I really cannot provide a comment on whether it’s appropriate or not,” said Capt. Will Rothrock. “The department is apolitical ... I can’t really speak to the former president’s actions.””

There are no words...

Steve Thomas

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1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said:

Palm Beach Police Ball Will Enrich Trump, Whose Jan. 6 Mob Attacked Officers

By S.V. Date and Ryan J. Reilly 10/07/2021

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/palm-beach-police-trump_n_615f5c15e4b0cc44c50a53b8

“The Palm Beach Police and Fire Foundation is planning a fundraiser at Mar-a-Lago this winter that will likely put some quarter-million dollars into Donald Trump’s cash registers — despite the former president’s incitement of the Jan. 6 assault on the Capitol that led to the deaths of five police officers and injuries to 140 more.

The charity would not disclose how much it will be paying Trump’s for-profit South Florida club to host the Jan. 22, 2022, “Policemen’s and Fire Fighters’ Ball.” Tax filings with the IRS, however, show that it paid $235,012 in 2020, $214,760 in 2019 and $262,261 in 2018 in facility rental costs for the same event in those years, all of which were also held at Mar-a-Lago.”

“A spokesman for the Palm Beach Police Department said it was not involved in choosing the site. “I really cannot provide a comment on whether it’s appropriate or not,” said Capt. Will Rothrock. “The department is apolitical ... I can’t really speak to the former president’s actions.””

There are no words...

Steve Thomas

The hypocrisy of Trump supporters ( especially police and first responders ) never ceases to be outrageously ... "political!"

They love Trump's authoritarian/fascist mentality bent.

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Capitol Police whistleblower delivers scathing rebuke to two senior leaders on Jan. 6

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/08/capitol-police-whistleblower-rebuke-jan-6-515696

 

This is in line with what I have been saying. The 2,300-officer Capitol Police seemed to stand down on Jan. 6, and the 3,500 officer Metropolitan Police Department was nowhere to be seen. 

The Capitol Police report to Congressional leadership, and the Metro police report to the Mayor of DC. Neither report to Trump, and both are supervised by the Democratic Party.

The FBI has concluded "there is no there" to the narrative there was a controlling power behind the 1/ 6 scrum. 

And the "Brian Sicknick was murdered by a blow from a fire extinguisher on the head by racist Trump supporters" narrative has been debunked. He died of natural causes the next day. 

All in all...a scrum, probably police mismanagement and 600 lulu's. 

But...1/6 is being purposed to bring about ever-greater fear and subsequent surveillance and police powers. 

Remember, be afraid of domestic subversives and foreign powers. Be very afraid. 

 

Edited by Benjamin Cole
typo
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Ben,

     I must confess that you have an unusual ability to completely ignore rebuttals and refutations of your oft-repeated talking points-- e.g., regarding the conflicting FBI assessments about January 6th, Brian Sicknick's anomalous death, etc.  So, I won't repeat them. 

     Billionaire Phillip Anschutz's right wing propaganda mouthpiece, The Washington Examiner, has aggressively promoted the narrative that the January 6th insurrection was, 1) not coordinated by Trump, Bannon, Roger Stone, et.al., and 2) was not an insurrection.  

     IMO, a subscription to the Washington Examiner could be useful in the event of a future pandemic-related toilet paper shortage.

     As for the planning of Trump's January 6th insurrection, hopefully, more information will be uncovered by the Congressional investigation-- although Trump is aggressively stonewalling the subpoenas currently.

      We know that Steve Bannon has stated publicly that he was involved in planning the January 6th insurrection with Trump, himself. 

      And FBI Director Christopher Wray testified to Congress in March that there was evidence that the January 6th attack on Congress was coordinated by "die hard members of the Trump attack force."

      At the very least, the FBI has given us mixed messages about the insurrection.

      See, for example...

Is the FBI telling us the truth about the Jan. 6 coup attempt? Because it doesn't feel that way

Reports from FBI and DHS suggest a dangerous rift in law enforcement over the Jan. 6 coup plot. We need the truth

https://www.salon.com/2021/08/26/is-the-fbi-telling-us-the-truth-about-the-jan-6-coup-attempt-because-it-doesnt-feel-that-way/

 

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