W. Niederhut Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said: It is possible to have three truths: Trump was a bad president, the Donks and 'Phants are completely corrupted by money, and the 1.6.21 narrative is hyperbole on steroids shot to the moon. Ben, Here's the latest (archived) WaPo "1.6.21 narrative" about Trump's deliberate inaction during the protracted, violent attack on the Capitol by his fired up supporters.* October 31, 2021. No paywall. Congressman Mo Brooks told the mob to, "Go down to the Capitol and kick some ass!" Frankly, you can't "both sides" this one. I don't see anything at all here about Donks-- just 'Phants... 🤥 Not sure what Rupert Murdoch and his employees, Glenn Greenwald and Tucker Carlson, will have to say about this damning evidence, but I'm guessing that they'll say as little as possible. And I'm still waiting for you (and Tucker Carlson) to answer to my old question. How could the failure of Christopher Wray's FBI to help prepare heightened Capitol security on 1/6 have conceivably benefited anyone but Donald Trump? Please explain. Let's recall that Wray was Trump's own choice to run the FBI, after he fired both James Comey and Andrew McCabe for refusing to abort the FBI investigation of Michael Flynn's December 2016 phone calls with Sergei Lavrov. * https://archive.ph/9btTd#selection-495.0-503.65 Bloodshed For 187 harrowing minutes, the president watched his supporters attack the Capitol — and resisted pleas to stop them. Bloodshed For 187 harrowing minutes, the president watched his supporters attack the Capitol — and resisted pleas to stop them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 8 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: Ben, Here's the latest (archived) WaPo "1.6.21 narrative" about Trump's deliberate inaction during the protracted, violent attack on the Capitol by his fired up supporters.* October 31, 2021. No paywall. Congressman Mo Brooks told the mob to, "Go down to the Capitol and kick some ass!" Frankly, you can't "both sides" this one. I don't see anything at all here about Donks-- just 'Phants... 🤥 Not sure what Rupert Murdoch and his employees, Glenn Greenwald and Tucker Carlson, will have to say about this damning evidence, but I'm guessing that they'll say as little as possible. And I'm still waiting for you (and Tucker Carlson) to answer to my old question. How could the failure of Christopher Wray's FBI to help prepare heightened Capitol security on 1/6 have conceivably benefited anyone but Donald Trump? Please explain. Let's recall that Wray was Trump's own choice to run the FBI, after he fired both James Comey and Andrew McCabe for refusing to abort the FBI investigation of Michael Flynn's December 2016 phone calls with Sergei Lavrov. * https://archive.ph/9btTd#selection-495.0-503.65 Bloodshed For 187 harrowing minutes, the president watched his supporters attack the Capitol — and resisted pleas to stop them. Bloodshed For 187 harrowing minutes, the president watched his supporters attack the Capitol — and resisted pleas to stop them. W.-- I just do not see any connections between the 600-odd people arrested for being inside the Capitol and the Trump Administration. Those arrested appear to be lulus, largely. This I get from reading primary materials and arrest reports, and prosecutions, and real-time texts and NOT reading M$M, including that fount of disinformation (see the JFKA) the WaPo. Not one arrestee has said they were taking covert orders from anyone in the Trump Administration. Some arrestees have pled they took encouragement from statements made in public by President Trump. But Trump also advised people to protest peacefully on Jan. 6. On the other hand, there is mounting evidence there were many, many federal infiltrators in Oathkeepers, the Patriot Boys and in the "Wolverine Watchman," the group that plotted (we are told by federal informants and assets, who were the majority of the group) to kidnap Governor Whitmer and "storm the (Michigan) Capitol." That rhymes, no? Have you some primary-material type evidence of covert instructions between the 600 arrestees and Trump? I am open to read any and all primary materials. In terms of PR, 1.6.21 was a huge coup for the Deep State-media blob, much like 9.11. Trump was the loser from 1.6. I cry not for the detestable Trump, but that the M$M is so deeply corrupted by the national security-Deep State. Remember, Brian Sicknick was bashed in the head with a fire extinguisher and murdered by racist Trump supporters, who were also heavily armed. (Actually, only one of those arrested on 1.6 carried a firearm...and who mysteriously was released on his own recognizance on 1.7, and prosecution against him appears to have been stopped or seriously stalled. That is Christopher Alberts. Read the primary materials and please explain this situation to me. A federal plant? However, I will read the archived copy you suggest, and keep an open mind...as I recommend to all. And I recommend reading primary materials, rather than press accounts. Think about the JFKA---would you read primary materials or watch the CBS Special for info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 51 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said: W.-- I just do not see any connections between the 600-odd people arrested for being inside the Capitol and the Trump Administration. Those arrested appear to be lulus, largely. This I get from reading primary materials and arrest reports, and prosecutions, and real-time texts and NOT reading M$M, including that fount of disinformation (see the JFKA) the WaPo. Not one arrestee has said they were taking covert orders from anyone in the Trump Administration. Some arrestees have pled they took encouragement from statements made in public by President Trump. But Trump also advised people to protest peacefully on Jan. 6. On the other hand, there is mounting evidence there were many, many federal infiltrators in Oathkeepers, the Patriot Boys and in the "Wolverine Watchman," the group that plotted (we are told by federal informants and assets, who were the majority of the group) to kidnap Governor Whitmer and "storm the (Michigan) Capitol." That rhymes, no? Have you some primary-material type evidence of covert instructions between the 600 arrestees and Trump? I am open to read any and all primary materials. In terms of PR, 1.6.21 was a huge coup for the Deep State-media blob, much like 9.11. Trump was the loser from 1.6. I cry not for the detestable Trump, but that the M$M is so deeply corrupted by the national security-Deep State. Remember, Brian Sicknick was bashed in the head with a fire extinguisher and murdered by racist Trump supporters, who were also heavily armed. (Actually, only one of those arrested on 1.6 carried a firearm...and who mysteriously was released on his own recognizance on 1.7, and prosecution against him appears to have been stopped or seriously stalled. That is Christopher Alberts. Read the primary materials and please explain this situation to me. A federal plant? However, I will read the archived copy you suggest, and keep an open mind...as I recommend to all. And I recommend reading primary materials, rather than press accounts. Think about the JFKA---would you read primary materials or watch the CBS Special for info? Your first sentence kind of stuns me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Zartman Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said: Your first sentence kind of stuns me. https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases These are cases against the 600 people arrested either for being inside or near the Capitol building on 1.6. If the federal government wants to charge any of these people with with conspiracy, that is, conspiring with Trump Administration officials, they can. So...where are the charges? Moreover, accusations and charges are not the same as guilt. I prefer the standard "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) Ben, I notice that the January 6th Insurrection deniers are now using your (above) mantra, "hyperbole," to describe the accurate reports of the January 6th attack on the Capitol... 🤥 As for a conspiracy, there is now compelling evidence that Trump actively conspired to obstruct the certification of the U.S. election-- and his violent mob certainly believed that they were acting on Trump's orders to disrupt the certification of the election and even hang Mike Pence. As an example, before invading the Capitol, Trump supporter Ashli Babbitt tweeted, "Nothing will stop us....they can try and try and try but the storm is here and it is descending upon DC in less than 24 hours....dark to light!" What if the truth about Jan. 6 is revealed — and the American people just don't care? Republicans have thoroughly rewritten the history of Jan. 6— are the media and public too exhausted to resist? https://www.salon.com/2021/11/02/what-if-the-truth-about-jan-6-is-revealed--and-the-american-people-just-dont-care/ November 2, 2021 Edited November 2, 2021 by W. Niederhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Prutsok Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 11 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases These are cases against the 600 people arrested either for being inside or near the Capitol building on 1.6. If the federal government wants to charge any of these people with with conspiracy, that is, conspiring with Trump Administration officials, they can. So...where are the charges? Moreover, accusations and charges are not the same as guilt. I prefer the standard "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law." Do you know how many people were charged with treason after the Civil War? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) Sylvio , SVZ said "there's a war going on but only one side is fighting it." Stop worrying about offending people who are trying to overthrow the government, We've been worrying about them for a couple of hundred years. Start at 2:00. If Trump runs again. Do you guys know all he has to do is primary 2 or 3 state governors or elect new state Secretary of States, (who run the state elections and are currently resigning from office) and if we have a replay of 2020, Trump will make up more BS about voter fraud but this time he'll have his people successfully throwing out the elections and put it to the one state one vote house of representatives? Then we'll have a real mess. The general Democratic Party narrative seems to be sort of whistling by the graveyard, confident that Pro Trump candidates can easily win primaries but are poor in the general election. Are they that confident? Their margins in both houses are so slim, they have no certainty, with the almost automatic turnover that occurs in the off year Congressional elections, that their majority will hold up at all. Regarding the hearings, The Dems are again talking a tough game, But if the gentlemanly rules of Congress won't allow them to potentially imprison another member. Are they really going to protect us against fascists? If Democrats don't have a prayer of successfully prosecuting Trump they should say so. Or explain exactly what the follow up game is. There are lots of other criminal suits going on against Trump, but Trumps lawyers can postpone them at least until after the 2022 elections. Just the election fraud of Trump's phone call to the Georgia AG, is plenty enough to send Trump to jail and we have plenty of witnesses. Are criminals going to be prosecuted? It's as if the President is beyond prosecution and can do whatever he wants because prosecuting him and throwing him in jail would be too reminiscent of Banana Republics. And we're supposed to be above that but that's nonsense, besides there are many examples of industrialized nations throwing their chief executives in jail including now France's Sarkozy has been sentenced.. No charges yet regarding Trump's phone call to the Georgia attorney general???? That's a slam dunk if ever there was one! It looks as if AG Garland is hesitant to prosecute Banon for Contempt of Congress. -Some recent tweets from Lawrence Tribe. -There is a strong case against the former president and his co-conspirators under each of a number of federal criminal statutes. Hesitating to seek indictments at this point would be an abdication of duty unworthy of the U.S. Justice Department. -We cannot have a system where a current president can’t be prosecuted, and then, because we don’t want to look backward, the former president can’t be prosecuted; that they’re somehow too big to jail.” -The conspiracy incubated at the Willard hotel to overthrow the government that had just won the 2020 election was a federal crime. 18 USC sec 2384. Bannon’s testimony would have to do with the planning of the events that led to the assault. If that’s an activity of the executive branch, it’s certainly not a legitimate one. Executive privilege doesn’t extend to hiding evidence of a coup.” Precisely! -raises all the hoops thru which DOJ will jump in deciding whether to indict Bannon, including OLC memos and Nixon v. GSA. But the bottom line remains: Bannon must be indicted if the rule of law (and AG Garland’s credibility) are to survive: -We’ve also learned Kevin McCarthy received money from Lev Parnas, the Rudy Giuliani sidekick whose money came through Ukrainian oligarch Firtash and who was convicted by a jury yesterday. And Oleg Deripaska seems to be involved. Hence Moscow Mitch, given Okeg’s Ky aluminum plant -I worry that many Americans are still blind, as I once was, to the authoritarian impulses that now grip Mr. Trump’s party. Democrats need to step up to thwart them.” -If it's right that AG Merrick Garland is reluctant to investigate former President Trump, then I agree that the AG is making a mistake of epic proportions. I hope and pray that Schiff is wrong about Garland. So odd that both were my students! -News: House GOP leaders are recommending a “no” vote on the criminal contempt referral for Steve Bannon, House GOP whip Steve Scalise announced in conference this morning, according to a source in the room. @MZanona reporting Tribe:No surprise there. Until the GOP becomes a genuine political party again and not just a pathetic and dangerous cult, it will continue to vote "no" on every effort to restore truth and to prevent another coup and insurrection Eliminate the Filibuster-Not a tough call, if you ask me. If democracy topples, of what possible use will the filibuster be? And, make no mistake, if we let the filibuster block legislation to protect voting rights and preserve electoral integrity, democracy will be on the chopping block. Edited November 2, 2021 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 14 hours ago, Denny Zartman said: <br /> Denny, I, for one, am crushed. I've been on pins and needles all day. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Kirk - good post. I have little hope that Congress will get tough. We are currently learning that Trump and his people were in cahoots with the insurrectionists, after months of hearings, ignored subpoenas and the like. But wait - didn’t we know that within a few days of Jan 6th? Sadly it seems that they don’t have the stomach to fight back, even with the law on their side. Garland could order Bannon’s arrest. Will he? If not, why not? And what would have come of it had Bannon obeyed the subpoena? Nothing. The people, us, have pretty much given up on mass demonstrations. We prefer petitions and wishful thinking. We can’t even protect our elections. And we ‘liberals’ are being divided against ourselves with cancel culture, wokeness, cultural appropriation, Critical Race Theory. It’s a slow moving but well conceived coup, one that began in the 1960’s and really got going in the late 1970’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Zartman Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 16 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said: Denny, I, for one, am crushed. I've been on pins and needles all day. Steve Thomas Don't give up hope, the day isn't over yet! Mick Jagger is also in Dallas right now. Coincidence? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said: Denny, I, for one, am crushed. I've been on pins and needles all day. Steve Thomas The announcement: Trump is actually JFK. No documents were released because he didn't want to get caught, right? Edited November 2, 2021 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Zartman Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 "And I shouted out 'Who resurrected the Kennedy's?' When after all It was Q and me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 28 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said: Kirk - good post. I have little hope that Congress will get tough. We are currently learning that Trump and his people were in cahoots with the insurrectionists, after months of hearings, ignored subpoenas and the like. But wait - didn’t we know that within a few days of Jan 6th? Sadly it seems that they don’t have the stomach to fight back, even with the law on their side. Garland could order Bannon’s arrest. Will he? If not, why not? And what would have come of it had Bannon obeyed the subpoena? Nothing. The people, us, have pretty much given up on mass demonstrations. We prefer petitions and wishful thinking. We can’t even protect our elections. And we ‘liberals’ are being divided against ourselves with cancel culture, wokeness, cultural appropriation, Critical Race Theory. It’s a slow moving but well conceived coup, one that began in the 1960’s and really got going in the late 1970’s. Kirk's points are absolutely on target. If anything, Trump should be held to a hire judicial standard, because he was in a position of great authority and trust. And, far from exercising his executive authority to protect and defend our Constitutional democracy, he used his power in an attempt to overthrow it. An abomination. IMO, in Trump's case, Congress and the DOJ have gone way overboard to protect the dignity of Presidential office, in stark contrast to the conduct of Kenneth Starr's five year, open ended "investigation" of Bill Clinton's private life--most of which had nothing to do with affairs of state. The double standard is ludicrous. As an example, Robert Mueller should have subpoenaed Trump and other members of his inner circle (Don, Jr., Kushner, et.al.) who were in contact with representatives of the Russian government in 2016 (e.g., Veselnitskaya.) Seeking foreign aid and interference in a U.S. election is a far more serious crime against the state than a sexual dalliance with Monica Lewinsky. And, certainly, the Republicans in the Senate should have removed Trump from office for attempting to extort political dirty tricks from Zelensky in violation of U.S. foreign policy objectives in Ukraine. The evidence against Trump in that case was overwhelming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Zartman Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 3 hours ago, Denny Zartman said: Don't give up hope, the day isn't over yet! Mick Jagger is also in Dallas right now. Coincidence? I think not. I was kidding when I wrote this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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