The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

Ron Bulman · December 24, 2021

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Here's today's NYT letter, Ron.

Will Donald Trump Get Away With Inciting an Insurrection?
www.nytimes.com/2021/12/23/opinion/trump-capitol-riot-january-6th.html

by Laurence Tribe, Donald Ayer, and Dennis Aftergut

December 23, 2021

In his nine months in office, Attorney General Merrick Garland has done a great deal to restore integrity and evenhanded enforcement of the law to an agency that was badly misused for political reasons under his predecessor. But his place in history will be assessed against the challenges that confronted him. And the overriding test that he and the rest of the government face is the threat to our democracy from people bent on destroying it.

Mr. Garland’s success depends on ensuring that the rule of law endures. That means dissuading future coup plotters by holding the leaders of the insurrection fully accountable for their attempt to overthrow the government. But he cannot do so without a robust criminal investigation of those at the top, from the people who planned, assisted or funded the attempt to overturn the Electoral College vote to those who organized or encouraged the mob attack on the Capitol. To begin with, he might focus on Mark Meadows, Steve Bannon, Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman and even Donald Trump — all of whom were involved, in one way or another, in the events leading up to the attack.

Almost a year after the insurrection, we have yet to see any clear indicators that such an investigation is underway, raising the alarming possibility that this administration may never bring charges against those ultimately responsible for the attack.

While the Justice Department has filed charges against more than 700 people who participated in the violence, limiting the investigation to these foot soldiers would be a grave mistake: As Joanne Freeman, a Yale historian, wrote this month about the insurrection, “Accountability — the belief that political power holders are responsible for their actions and that blatant violations will be addressed — is the lifeblood of democracy. Without it, there can be no trust in government, and without trust, democratic governments have little power.”

The legal path to investigate the leaders of the coup attempt is clear. The criminal code prohibits inciting an insurrection or “giving aid or comfort” to those who do, as well as conspiracy to forcibly “prevent, hinder or delay the execution of any law of the United States.” The code also makes it a crime to corruptly impede any official proceeding or deprive citizens of their constitutional right to vote.

Based purely on what we know today from news reports and the steady stream of revelations coming from the House select committee investigating the attack, the attorney general has a powerful justification for a robust and forceful investigation into the former president and his inner circle. As White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows was intimately involved in the effort to overturn the election. He traveled to Georgia last December, where he apparently laid the groundwork for the phone call in which the president pressured Georgia’s secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, to “find 11,780 votes.” Representative Jim Jordan of Ohio reportedly promoted a scheme to pressure Vice President Mike Pence to reject duly certified Joe Biden electors. And from their war room at the Willard Hotel, several members of the president’s inner circle hatched the legal strategy to overturn the results of the election.

The president himself sat back for three hours while his chief of staff was barraged with messages from members of Congress and Fox News hosts pleading with him to have Mr. Trump call off the armed mob whose violent passion he had inflamed. That evidence, on its own, may not be enough to convict the former president, but it is certainly enough to require a criminal investigation.

And yet there are no signs, at least in media reports, that the attorney general is building a case against these individuals — no interviews with top administration officials, no reports of attempts to persuade the foot soldiers to turn on the people who incited them to violence. By this point in the Russia investigation, the special counsel Robert Mueller had indicted Paul Manafort and Rick Gates and secured the cooperation of George Papadopoulos after charging him with lying to the F.B.I. The media was reporting that the special counsel’s team had conducted or scheduled interviews with Mr. Trump’s aides Stephen Miller and Mr. Bannon, as well as Attorney General Jeff Sessions.

Of course, there is no way to know for sure whether Mr. Garland’s Department of Justice is investigating the leaders of the attack behind closed doors. Justice Department policy does not permit announcing investigations, absent exceptional circumstances. Mr. Garland, unlike his predecessor, plays by the book, keeping quiet about investigations until charges are filed. But the first of the rioters to plead guilty began cooperating with the Justice Department back in April. If prosecutors have been using their cooperation to investigate the top officials and operatives responsible for the siege of the Capitol and our democracy, there would likely be significant confirmation in the media by now.

It is possible that the department is deferring the decision about starting a full-blown investigative effort pending further work by the House select committee. It is even conceivable that the department is waiting for the committee’s final report so that federal prosecutors can review the documents, interviews and recommendations amassed by House investigators and can consider any potential referrals for criminal prosecution.

But such an approach would come at a very high cost. In the prosecution business, interviews need to happen as soon as possible after the events in question, to prevent both forgetfulness and witness coordination to conceal the truth. A comprehensive Department of Justice probe of the leadership is now more urgently needed than ever.

It is also imperative that Mr. Trump be included on the list of those being investigated. The media has widely reported his role in many of the relevant events, and there is no persuasive reason to exclude him.

First, he has no claim to constitutional immunity from prosecution. The Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel has recognized such immunity only for sitting presidents because a criminal trial would prevent them from discharging the duties of their office. Mr. Trump no longer has those duties to discharge.

Nor is exclusion of the former president remotely justified by the precedent President Gerald Ford set in pardoning Richard Nixon to help the country “heal” from Watergate. Even our proud tradition of not mimicking banana republics by allowing political winners to retaliate against losers must give way in the wake of violence perpetrated to thwart the peaceful transition of power. Refusing to at least investigate those who plot to end democracy — and who would remain engaged in efforts to do so — would be beyond foolhardy.

Furthermore, the pending state and local investigations in New York and Atlanta will never be able to provide the kind of accountability the nation clearly needs. The New York case, which revolves around tax fraud, has nothing to do with the attack on our government. The Atlanta district attorney appears to be probing Mr. Trump’s now infamous call to Mr. Raffensperger. But that is just one chapter of the wrongdoing that led up to the attack on the Capitol.

Significantly, even if the Atlanta district attorney is able to convict Mr. Meadows and Mr. Trump for interfering in Georgia’s election, they could still run for office again. Only convicting them for participating in an insurrection would permanently disqualify them from office under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.

Some have expressed pessimism that the Department of Justice would be able to convict Mr. Trump. His guilt would ultimately be for a jury to decide, and some jurors might believe he deluded himself into believing his own big lie and thus genuinely thought he was saving, rather than sabotaging, the election. But concerns about a conviction are no reason to refrain from an investigation. If anything, a federal criminal investigation could unearth even more evidence and provide a firmer basis for deciding whether to indict.

To decline from the outset to investigate would be appeasement, pure and simple, and appeasing bullies and wrongdoers only encourages more of the same. Without forceful action to hold the wrongdoers to account, we will likely not resist what some retired generals see as a march to another insurrection in 2024 if Mr. Trump or another demagogue loses.

Throughout his public life, Mr. Garland has been a highly principled public servant focused on doing the right thing. But only by holding the leaders of the Jan. 6 insurrection — all of them — to account can he secure the future and teach the next generation that no one is above the law. If he has not done so already, we implore the attorney general to step up to that task.

Multiple important paragraphs in this detailing why in essence he asks his former student why he hasn't acted yet. Everyone should take time to read this imho.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Ron Bulman

Bob Ness · December 24, 2021

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

In this large amount of investigation, did the WaPo unearth any communications between Trump Administration officials and the rioters at the Capitol on 1/6?

Any directives from Trumpers to enter the Capitol?

The federal government, which has subpoena powers, and the ability to read all texts, emails and to replay and listen to all cellphones calls, has produced no evidence.

Ben, why in the world do you think they would say if they did? Wapo has to have corroborating information and the DoJ and House Committee would be stupid to say anything publicly. Any information spilled at this point would only help possible targets to synchronize their stories. During the Mueller probe Trump, engaged in 37 different Mutual Defense Agreements with other people of interest including 6 or 7 convicted felons.

People here were trying to say that's "perfectly normal" except in that case one of the possible defendants could not be indicted AND could pardon any behavior of the others. Their attorneys coordinated as much of their stories as possible and dangled pardons when necessary. It was gross, unethical and undoubtedly illegal and felonious.

Benjamin Cole · December 24, 2021

1 hour ago, Bob Ness said:

Ben, why in the world do you think they would say if they did? Wapo has to have corroborating information and the DoJ and House Committee would be stupid to say anything publicly. Any information spilled at this point would only help possible targets to synchronize their stories. During the Mueller probe Trump, engaged in 37 different Mutual Defense Agreements with other people of interest including 6 or 7 convicted felons.

People here were trying to say that's "perfectly normal" except in that case one of the possible defendants could not be indicted AND could pardon any behavior of the others. Their attorneys coordinated as much of their stories as possible and dangled pardons when necessary. It was gross, unethical and undoubtedly illegal and felonious.

Bob N.-

If the WaPo has concrete evidence of Trumpers instigating or coordinating the scrum on 1/6, (by my lights) they should print it immediately, no holds barred.

Ideally, the WaPo (although they may have forgotten) is not an investigative body aligned with the state or a political party. It is supposed to be a newspaper.

That said, the WaPo operates a newspaper under the First Amendment, without any obligations to the state or the public, or to truth or balanced coverage.

Under the First Amendment the WaPo can print what it wants, excepting libel, or a few other very extreme transgressions (clear and immediate danger to national security, or clearly and actively promoting violence of some sort).

Perhaps you are right, and the WaPo is suppressing evidence. Well, that has happened before.

Bob Ness · December 24, 2021

43 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Perhaps you are right, and the WaPo is suppressing evidence. Well, that has happened before.

I don't know whether they have anything or not. They're not likely to go to print without corroborating sources unless the source itself is beyond reproach. That's all I'm saying. They may not have squat. But their silence isn't meaningful.

The idea the feds had something to do with it is ridiculous also. It's not unusual for the FBI or other LEOs to have sources inside radical domestic groups if those groups are considered dangerous. Par for the course. The hullabaloo about it is flak thrown up to redirect the conversation, a specialty of the current republican wing nuts. Jewish Space Lasers if you will.

Benjamin Cole · December 24, 2021

2 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

I don't know whether they have anything or not. They're not likely to go to print without corroborating sources unless the source itself is beyond reproach. That's all I'm saying. They may not have squat. But their silence isn't meaningful.

The idea the feds had something to do with it is ridiculous also. It's not unusual for the FBI or other LEOs to have sources inside radical domestic groups if those groups are considered dangerous. Par for the course. The hullabaloo about it is flak thrown up to redirect the conversation, a specialty of the current republican wing nuts. Jewish Space Lasers if you will.

https://www.revolver.news/2021/12/damning-new-details-massive-web-unindicted-operators-january-6/

Another perspective. I would keep an open mind on this one.

Steve Thomas · December 24, 2021

Trump name officially removed from Vancouver hotel building

By Amy Judd Global News

Posted December 23, 2021

https://globalnews.ca/news/8471179/trump-hotel-vancouver/?utm_medium=Twitter&utm_source=%40globalbc

“The Trump name has officially been removed from one of Vancouver’s tallest buildings.

Crews have now removed all the Trump branding on the outside of the 63-storey tower that was known as the Trump International Hotel & Tower Vancouver when it opened in 2017.

It was not a success and the hotel closed in 2020.”

This project was suspected to have been financed with money laundered out of Malaysia.

Steve Thomas

Steve Thomas · December 24, 2021

Michigan's GOP Senate majority leader has some bad news for Trump

Sky Palma

December 24, 2021

https://www.rawstory.com/michigan-candidates-endorsed-by-trump/

“Michigan Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey (R) says the influence of an endorsement from former President Donald Trump for candidates who are loyal to him is waning, The Detroit News reports.

"We shall let the results speak for themselves, but I will go on record right now predicting that most of the endorsements will fail," he told Jackson TV this Wednesday.

"We can play this back a year from now and find out what happened," Shirkey added.

As The Detroit News points out, Trump has endorsed several state House and Senate candidates as well as candidates for Michigan attorney general and secretary of state who have echoed his voter fraud conspiracy theories.

"Local clerks, both Republican and Democratic, conducted more than 250 audits of the 2020 election and affirmed President Joe Biden's 154,00 vote victory over Trump in Michigan. Countless court rulings also have upheld Biden's victory in Michigan," The Detroit News reports. "The GOP-led Senate Oversight Committee took more than 28 hours of committee testimony from about 90 people and reviewed thousands of subpoenaed documents before concluding there was no evidence of significant acts of fraud in the 2020 election."

In a statement, Shirkey and then-House Speaker Lee Chatfield said that they had "not yet been made aware of any information that would change the outcome of the election in Michigan and, as legislative leaders, we will follow the law and follow the normal process regarding Michigan’s electors, just as we have said throughout this election."

Speaking to Jackson TV on Wednesday, Shirkey said there's "a lot of things that happened in that election that need to be tightened up but, in Michigan in particular, President Trump lost. He just simply lost."

‘I Alone Can Fix It’ book excerpt: The inside story of Trump’s defiance and inaction on Jan. 6

By Philip Rucker and Carol D. Leonnig July 15, 2021

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/07/15/jan-6-i-alone-can-fix-it-book-excerpt/

“After first evacuating congressional leaders to the secure area of the Hart Building, Capitol Police decided to err on the side of caution and transported leaders, including Pelosi, McConnell, Senate Democratic leader Charles E. Schumer and House Republican leader Kevin McCarthy, to Fort McNair, an Army post in Southwest Washington.

At 3:15 p.m., Dan Sullivan called Milley. “This is really f----- up down here,” said the Republican senator from Alaska.

Sullivan told Milley that the senators were safe in a secure location and that Capitol Police had a tentative plan to evacuate them by bus. Sullivan, who had military training, thought the movement would put them in more danger.”

The Secret Service tried to get Mike Pence to evacuate the Capitol, and he refused.

There has been some suggestion in the last couple of days that the military was hesitant about sending in the National Guard, fearful that Trump would try and repurpose it.

If they had succeeded in evacuating the Capitol, and the National Guard was sent in to "protect the Trump supporters", who knows when the Legislature would have been able to reconvene to certify the results of the Electoral College.

With the Speaker of the House and the Vice President gone, the whole line of succession would have been broken.

Steve Thomas

Chris Barnard · December 24, 2021

38 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

On January 6 Trump was still Commander in Chief. Who knows what kind of chaos he could have caused had he chosen to invoke his power.

I see 2016-2020 as a practice run and 2024 as the real thing should Trump be re-elected.

Hi Sandy,

As people know here, I don’t buy into the red and blue psychosis, delusions and theatre that is bought into every 4 years. It serves one class of people, and gives them continuity. The concept that the president is where true power sits is totally redundant, our JFKA research tells us that.

The idea that the US Army, US NAVY, US AF, CIA, NSA, FBI, and so on would have acquiesced is nothing more than a fantasy. Your sacred democracy is a cesspool of corruption.

The purpose it served was to paint a picture of protestors as dangerous subversives. It will reinforce a clampdown on such activities, creating a perception of protestors as domestic terrorists.

Any of you who read history will know about the history under Nixon of riddling a protest with undercover law enforcement, to turn them ugly. Make them the villains.

If you can only look at things in hero and villain archetypes, you’re doomed to under this psychosis perpetually. I do understand why it is more comfortable to believe in purity and this theatre, as it’s much more comfortable.

"The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduces them. Whoever can supply them with illusions, is easily their master. Whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim."
Gusta Le Bon

"Indeed, it is becoming ever more obvious that it is not famine, not earthquakes, not microbes, not cancer but man himself who is man's greatest danger to man, for the simple reason that there is no adequate protection against psychic epidemics, which are infinitely more devastating than the worst of natural catastrophes. "

Carl Jung

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09maaUaRT4M

Merry Christmas to all. I hope you all have a truly magical festive period.

Matt Allison · December 24, 2021

Merrick Garland has managed to keep the lid on tight as far as leaks about the investigation. There will be multiple simultaneous arrests and it will be jaw dropping.

Matt Allison · December 24, 2021

11 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

https://www.revolver.news/2021/12/damning-new-details-massive-web-unindicted-operators-january-6/

Another perspective. I would keep an open mind on this one.

Revolver "News" is an extremist right-wing propaganda site.

Their twitter feed tells you a lot about their motives: twitter.com/RevolverNews

If Ray Epps had been some kind of gov plant, he never would have been advertised by the government as "Wanted", would he?

There were thousands of Trumpers there on 1/6; one or two guys didn't just suddenly convince everyone to raid the Capitol lol.

The entire thing was being planned on thedonald.win well in advance. Look it up. You should really try to research this rather than rely on goofball stories like your posted link.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Matt Allison

Benjamin Cole · December 25, 2021

3 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

Revolver "News" is an extremist right-wing propaganda site.

Their twitter feed tells you a lot about their motives: twitter.com/RevolverNews

If Ray Epps had been some kind of gov plant, he never would have been advertised by the government as "Wanted", would he?

There were thousands of Trumpers there on 1/6; one or two guys didn't just suddenly convince everyone to raid the Capitol lol.

The entire thing was being planned on thedonald.win well in advance. Look it up. You should really try to research this rather than rely on goofball stories like your posted link.

Matt A.-

A funny thing about alternative news sites.

When I was young, the alternative media was mostly weekly magazines associated with a city, such as the LA Weekly in Los Angeles. Some radio outfits, such as Pacifica on the West Coast.

The above outfits could be counted on to run far left narratives, even in the face of facts, and were widely ridiculed and reviled on the right.

Those old left-wing outfits were also the only media outlets of the time to give a fair hearing to the alt-JFKA narratives.

When I first heard of Garrison blaming the CIA for the JFKA, he sounded like the man from the moon to me (in my defense, I was barely a teenager). And sure enough, only Pacifica or the LA Weekly even gave Garrison a nod.

Decades and decades later...I think Garrison was barking up the right tree. Garrison had sound reasons for his suspicions.

On 1/6....

It may be there were no federal agitators, plants or facilitators in the 1/6 scrum. I suspect there were, and there are sound documented reasons for that suspicion. Abundant video evidence for starters.

You can bet your bottom dollar the WaPo, and the M$M, agrees with you on 1/6, and they will not expend even one reporter to try to fairly ascertain the facts. That alone should make you take an impartial, less judgmental stance.

Who were Ray Epps, or Christopher Alberts, or the three other men seen, and abundantly recorded in videos, directing the crowd on 1/6?

If you think there was an attempt at a bona fide insurrection through occupation of the Capitol, I would think you would breathing fire for these individuals to be brought to justice----indeed the WaPo should have their photos on the cover of the newspaper, demanding they be brought to justice.

But no.

The alt-media has identified key agitators in the 1/6 scrum, not just by interviews or word of mouth or garbled witness testimony, but recorded on video, and....crickets.

I personally have identified through federal documents Christoper Alberts as the lone armed protestor in the Capitol, and one who carried extra ammo and a semi-auto pistol. Yet he was released on 1/7 on his own recognizance (no bail), and prosecution seems to have ended.

The unarmed Mr. Buffalo Horns has been behind bars since shortly after 1/6, and will remain there for another few years.

Huh?

This 1/6 thing gets fishier and fishier, and I smell a rat. And if there is a rat, I do not expect the M$M to tell me.

But all set aside, and a sincere Happy Holidays for now. We can resume arguments next year. We will have all sorts of florid proclamations to make!

Ron Bulman · December 28, 2021

Hang Mike Pence they chanted. Now this guy wants to hang the head of the JCS, on CNN.

Mark Milley Should Be Executed on Live TV, Says GOP Congressional Candidate Noah Malgeri (msn.com)

The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

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Trump name officially removed from Vancouver hotel building

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‘I Alone Can Fix It’ book excerpt: The inside story of Trump’s defiance and inaction on Jan. 6

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