Benjamin Cole Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 13 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said: The chump is who benefitted. He's still getting the attention he craves and maintains the power over not just his base but in turn the rest of the Republican party. Ron- Well, we disagree on this one. One sure beneficiary: The Cheneys! Dick Cheney comes to Capitol on Jan. 6, says he's 'deeply disappointed' in GOP leadership He spoke with ABC News Chief Washington Correspondent Jonathan Karl. ByJonathan Karl Rep. Liz Cheney leaves House chamber with her father, former Vice President Dick Cheney ---30--- I always thought of the Cheneys as war-cultists and tools of globalist enterprise, sure-footed purveyors of Deep State narratives. Now, the new Donk heroes! They have been rehabilitated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Dude, Dick Cheney can barely walk now. We didn't like Dick Cheney either. So imagine how bad the Trump people are when they're able to make him look decent... Really, stop to contemplate that. It's an actual thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 "did the Democrats steal the election?" "It's impossible to say" No, it's not. Biden won by 7 Million votes in the most closely watched and audited, recounted election in U S history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 17 minutes ago, Matt Allison said: Dude, Dick Cheney can barely walk now. We didn't like Dick Cheney either. So imagine how bad the Trump people are when they're able to make him look decent... Really, stop to contemplate that. It's an actual thing. BINGO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: W.-- I disagree with your assessments, and I think pre-event, it is far more likely there was national security state involvement in 1/6 than 9/11. However, I look forward to your continued involvement and participation n this forum, and I will read your copy for insights. I would like to say I wish members of this forum would extend equal graciousness to viewpoints consistent with, or opposed, to their own, or like mine, just on a different track (I being neither red or blue, D-R etc.). Consider my request for graciousness. If one of us has a monopoly on the truth....then they should be most gracious of all. Ben, In reality, you don't even understand my "assessments" of 9/11. Judging from your poorly informed comments, it's obvious to me that you have never studied the research literature on the subject. And, yet, you presume to lecture to us about what happened! Secondly, you always claim to be "open minded," while repeatedly ignoring the facts posted that contradict your fixed opinions. It's intellectually dishonest and, frankly, annoying. What's the point of debating important issues if someone repeatedly ignores the rebuttals of their arguments? Nothing gets resolved. It's one reason this thread has been so lengthy. As for respecting people's opinions, I'm all for it, provided that those opinions are based on a sound interpretations of the facts in the case. Are we supposed to respect erroneous opinions about important issues-- as if there is no such thing as truth in the matter? If someone opines that the moon is made of cheese, or that Donald Trump didn't conspire to overturn the 2020 election, I cannot pretend to respect their opinion. It would be intellectually dishonest. As for graciousness, I'm quite in favor of it, but it isn't gracious to repeatedly ignore the evidence people post, while repeatedly posting opinions contradicted by that evidence. In the case January 6th, do you and Chris actually deny that Donald Trump conspired to block the certification of the election? Surely, you can't be that myopic. Edited January 8, 2022 by W. Niederhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: would like to say I wish members of this forum would extend equal graciousness to viewpoints consistent with, or opposed, to their own, or like mine, just on a different track (I being neither red or blue, D-R etc.). Oh do I sense a victim here Ben?? Graciousness is graciousness but l-es are l-es. Oh really Ben?, right after you've been caught red handed parcing Trumps statements to mislead us in order to promote Trump as a non corporate politician when he actually acknowledged his corporate giveaway to the Koch's? But then like a Trumpian character you haven't answered to your omission.? Your hoping to not address it, and have it just swept under the rug? Of course this makes me wonder, if I was to use a minimal research as I did, what others untruths would I uncover? Despite your disavowing. In 10 years here, I've honestly have never seen such sycophancy here to promote a politician here as you. Then in your deafness you open up another thread the very next day here solely for the purpose of pushing your political views and you got slammed again!.. You did the same thing with Tucker Carlson here a few months ago, and you promptly shown the door back then. You've never noticed that you don't see other people here starting threads to promote their favorite politicians or network talk show personalities? I've never understood this slavishness toward Trump. It's seems like Trump just make you guys l-e, cheat and steal for him, only to get caught and yet you guys keep coming back. . Don't you Ben? ****** Edited January 8, 2022 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: Ben, In reality, you don't even understand my "assessments" of 9/11. Judging from your poorly informed comments, it's obvious to me that you have never studied the research literature on the subject. And, yet, you presume to lecture to us about what happened! Secondly, you always claim to be "open minded," while repeatedly ignoring the facts posted that contradict your fixed opinions. It's intellectually dishonest and, frankly, annoying. What's the point of debating important issues if someone repeatedly ignores the rebuttals of their arguments? Nothing gets resolved. It's one reason this thread has been so lengthy. As for respecting people's opinions, I'm all for it, provided that those opinions are based on a sound interpretations of the facts in the case. Are we supposed to respect erroneous opinions about important issues-- as if there is no such thing as truth in the matter? If someone opines that the moon is made of cheese, or that Donald Trump didn't conspire to overturn the 2020 election, I cannot pretend to respect their opinion. It would be intellectually dishonest. As for graciousness, I'm quite in favor of it, but it isn't gracious to repeatedly ignore the evidence people post, while repeatedly posting opinions contradicted by that evidence. In the case January 6th, do you and Chris actually deny that Donald Trump conspired to block the certification of the election? Surely, you can't be that myopic. W.- Again, we have different perspectives. I might re-frame the argument: What role did non-Trumpian federal assets, instigators and provocateurs play in the 1/6 scrum? As to 9/11, I looked at some of the materials you referenced. I heartily agree 9/11 became an immediate propaganda platform for perma-wars in the Mideast. Bush-Cheney started volitional, fantastically expensive and counterproductive wars, with near total assent of both political parties. As to the 9/11 event itself, I do not see how federal provocateurs could have wired up three different large skyscrapers with explosives, without anyone catching on. My understanding is such a procedure requires multiple and timed explosives on every floor. So we disagree. So what? Many intelligent people disagree on certain events and issues. I look forward to your posts. Edited January 8, 2022 by Benjamin Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 7 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said: Oh do I sense a victim here Ben?? Graciousness is graciousness but l-es are l-es. Oh really Ben?, right after you've been caught red handed parcing Trumps statements to mislead us in order to promote Trump as a non corporate politician when he actually acknowledged his corporate giveaway to the Koch's? But then like a Trumpian character you haven't answered to your omission.? Your hoping to not address it, and have it just swept under the rug? Of course this makes me wonder, if I was to use a minimal research as I did, what others untruths would I uncover? Despite your disavowing. In 10 years here, I've honestly have never seen such sycophancy here to promote a politician here as you. Then in your deafness you open up another thread the very next day here solely for the purpose of pushing your political views and you got slammed again!.. You did the same thing with Tucker Carlson here a few months ago, and you promptly shown the door back then. You've never noticed that you don't see other people here starting threads to promote their favorite politicians or network talk show personalities? I've never understood this slavishness toward Trump. It's seems like Trump just make you guys l-e, cheat and steal for him, only to get caught and yet you guys keep coming back. . Don't you Ben? ****** Kirk-- Thanks for your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Historians warn of coup unfolding in real time (msn.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Another take on 1/6, this one by Matt Taibbi. https://taibbi.substack.com/p/a-tale-of-two-authoritarians Even if you disagree, this guy is a great and fun writer. I happen to generally agree with his take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Liz Cheney has been bold and defiant, and that should be appreciated. Dick and his boss were the worst, and if Democrats fawned over him it’s shameful. Ben I take it you think the election was stolen. Instead of talking about possible irregularities during the 2020 election, all of them unproven, let’s hear your take on the Republican States massive efforts to steal 2022 and 24 by gerrymandering districts, clamping down on vote by mail, and other blatant tactics. You can’t step around that one. You can’t blame it on FBI infiltration, or any kind of Donkey manipulation. It’s a power grab pure and simple. Can you admit that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 A cancelled press conference, that wouldn't have been televised but for maybe fox. For good reason, still promoting the big lie. Attacked by the anti vaxers in his own base. Parts of Trump's base are turning on him, fueled by discontent with stances on vaccines and the Capitol riot (msn.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 4 hours ago, Paul Brancato said: Liz Cheney has been bold and defiant, and that should be appreciated. Dick and his boss were the worst, and if Democrats fawned over him it’s shameful. Ben I take it you think the election was stolen. Instead of talking about possible irregularities during the 2020 election, all of them unproven, let’s hear your take on the Republican States massive efforts to steal 2022 and 24 by gerrymandering districts, clamping down on vote by mail, and other blatant tactics. You can’t step around that one. You can’t blame it on FBI infiltration, or any kind of Donkey manipulation. It’s a power grab pure and simple. Can you admit that? Hi Paul "Ben I take it you think the [2020] election was stolen."--Paul I answered this is detail just a few posts up. I think it is unlikely, but possible, given the unfortunate Electoral College system. BTW, Bill Clinton, certainly a smart guy, thought the 2004 presidential election looked to have been stolen by Bush jr. by exactly the same measures the Trumpers now suspect---stuffing the absentee ballot box. See my comment above. As to pending elections--- 1. Sure, gerrymandering is always a power grab. 2. I am not aghast at voter ID laws. They are the norm in Europe. 3. I am open to the elimination of mail-in and absentee ballot voting, which may have been abused by both parties in recent elections. See the comments of Bill Clinton, or the mirror-like the comments of Trumpers. Certainly, mail-in and absentee ballots are a pathway to voter fraud. Al that said, I favor direct popular election of the President. Gore, Hillary Clinton, and Biden would have been clear winners under such a simple system. That is not the reason to have direct popular vote---I favor direct popular vote a truly more democratic. So....do you think the GOP-Bush people stole the 2004 election, as stated Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and assented to by former President Bill Clinton, through the use of absentee ballots? In your opinion what should be done about the absentee ballot problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Members of the New Black Panther Party is seen outside the Glenn County courthouse on Friday +28 The heavily-armed NBPP members marched outside the courthouse on Friday as the trio were sentenced for Arbery's killing ---30--- Usually, scenes like this ensure a tsunami of media ridicule and derogatory sneers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 10 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: W.- Again, we have different perspectives. I might re-frame the argument: What role did non-Trumpian federal assets, instigators and provocateurs play in the 1/6 scrum? As to 9/11, I looked at some of the materials you referenced. I heartily agree 9/11 became an immediate propaganda platform for perma-wars in the Mideast. Bush-Cheney started volitional, fantastically expensive and counterproductive wars, with near total assent of both political parties. As to the 9/11 event itself, I do not see how federal provocateurs could have wired up three different large skyscrapers with explosives, without anyone catching on. My understanding is such a procedure requires multiple and timed explosives on every floor. So we disagree. So what? Many intelligent people disagree on certain events and issues. I look forward to your posts. As I said, you have never studied, or understood, the 9/11 evidence. In other words, your opinions about 9/11 are not based on the facts. Thanks for clarifying. As for January 6th, your repeated attempts to blame the attack on "non-Trumpian" Federal agent provocateurs is based on a denial of the overwhelming evidence that the attack on the Capitol was planned and promoted by Trump and his January 6th co-conspirators-- i.e., Bannon, Stone, Alex Jones, Mo Brooks, Paul Gosar, et.al.-- to disrupt the certification of Biden's election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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