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The inevitable end result of our last 56 years


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Good to hear, one of the reason I stopped using the forum was that it seemed extremely polarised at that time, between the CT and LN factions and I often didn't fit in either side and ended up making enemies with everyone ! which of course happens in political debates inevitably. As long as people are happy to admit to being raging leftists or Evangelical puritans I can't see an issue. I am pretty ' right wing' by English standards but the is more to do with objectivity and truth rather than and political standing , also I feel the shift to the left in general over the last 20 years makes people who still hold fast to the truth more ' right wing by default. The same would be true of course in a shift to the right only in reverse. 

 

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I think you are being serious there, in saying that ' reality' is not a grey haired bearded man in the sky etc... but reality is that there are two genders so I think you can cherry pick either way. Also using Colbert as a reference is like using David Duke as a ref for black people. I think Thomas Sewell would have a few decent quotes to counter . I have come to recognise a very liberal bias though in JFK research community which I didn't perhaps expect to start with which doesn't seem to aid discussion of objective truth seeking, I guess that's my opinion and why I made the original post about this thread. 

2 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." - Stephen Colbert

 

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2 hours ago, Jake Hammond said:

Good to hear, one of the reason I stopped using the forum was that it seemed extremely polarised at that time, between the CT and LN factions and I often didn't fit in either side and ended up making enemies with everyone ! which of course happens in political debates inevitably. As long as people are happy to admit to being raging leftists or Evangelical puritans I can't see an issue. I am pretty ' right wing' by English standards but the is more to do with objectivity and truth rather than and political standing , also I feel the shift to the left in general over the last 20 years makes people who still hold fast to the truth more ' right wing by default. The same would be true of course in a shift to the right only in reverse. 

 

Jake,

    In reality, there has been a dramatic rightward shift in the American political spectrum during the past 40 years.

    Democratic centrists today are, essentially, analogous to Eisenhower Republicans of the 1950s.  As an example, Eisenhower pushed spending on infrastructure, (e.g., the Interstate highway system) and believed that unnecessary military spending undermined funding for socially beneficial expenditures on education.  And top income tax rates under Eisenhower were 90%!

    Simultaneously, the Koch-owned GOP today is pushing policies associated with the extreme right wing of the Republican Party of the 1950s-- including Fred Koch's John Birchers.  The Kochs have always aimed at rolling back the New Deal, including Social Security, along with abolishing Medicare and Medicaid.

    It's somewhat surprising that so few people seem to realize that Paul Ryan and the Koch-controlled GOP "Tea Party" House actually passed two budget bills after 2010 which would have abolished Medicare, converting it into Ryan's "Voucher Care" program for future beneficiaries!

     Another obvious example of the modern rightward shift in the American political spectrum is the fact that the GOP today has been adamantly opposed to environmental protection, whereas Richard Nixon presided over the establishment of the EPA.

     The false equivalence/both sider-ist rhetoric nowadays equating essential Republican and Democratic domestic policies is not only inaccurate, but toxic.  There are dramatic, important differences between the policy positions of the Koch-owned (Trump) GOP and the Democratic Party on matters pertaining to tax policy, healthcare, education, infrastructure, environmental protection, and climate change mitigation.

     If you're interested in this subject, you should read Duke University Professor Nancy MacLean's landmark history of the modern Koch GOP, Democracy in Chains.

Dwight D. Eisenhower quote: Should any political party attempt to abolish social  security unemployment...

Edited by W. Niederhut
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6 hours ago, Jake Hammond said:

I think you are being serious there, in saying that ' reality' is not a grey haired bearded man in the sky etc... but reality is that there are two genders so I think you can cherry pick either way. Also using Colbert as a reference is like using David Duke as a ref for black people. I think Thomas Sewell would have a few decent quotes to counter . I have come to recognise a very liberal bias though in JFK research community which I didn't perhaps expect to start with which doesn't seem to aid discussion of objective truth seeking, I guess that's my opinion and why I made the original post about this thread. 

 

I block zealots and QAnon types, pal.

So yeah, enjoy your holidays.

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10 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Jake,

    In reality, there has been a dramatic rightward shift in the American political spectrum during the past 40 years.

    Democratic centrists today are, essentially, analogous to Eisenhower Republicans of the 1950s.  As an example, Eisenhower pushed spending on infrastructure, (e.g., the Interstate highway system) and believed that unnecessary military spending undermined funding for socially beneficial expenditures on education.  And top income tax rates under Eisenhower were 90%!

    Simultaneously, the Koch-owned GOP today is pushing policies associated with the extreme right wing of the Republican Party of the 1950s-- including Fred Koch's John Birchers.  The Kochs have always aimed at rolling back the New Deal, including Social Security, along with abolishing Medicare and Medicaid.

    It's somewhat surprising that so few people seem to realize that Paul Ryan and the Koch-controlled GOP "Tea Party" House actually passed two budget bills after 2010 which would have abolished Medicare, converting it into Ryan's "Voucher Care" program for future beneficiaries!

     Another obvious example of the modern rightward shift in the American political spectrum is the fact that the GOP today has been adamantly opposed to environmental protection, whereas Richard Nixon presided over the establishment of the EPA.

     The false equivalence/both sider-ist rhetoric nowadays equating essential Republican and Democratic domestic policies is not only inaccurate, but toxic.  There are dramatic, important differences between the policy positions of the Koch-owned (Trump) GOP and the Democratic Party on matters pertaining to tax policy, healthcare, education, infrastructure, environmental protection, and climate change mitigation.

     If you're interested in this subject, you should read Duke University Professor Nancy MacLean's landmark history of the modern Koch GOP, Democracy in Chains.

Dwight D. Eisenhower quote: Should any political party attempt to abolish social  security unemployment...

In large part I agree with this analysis. 

I would add that the modern-day Donk Party is totally immersed into the national security state, and wants social media platforms and Google to effect state censorship. 

And the 'Phants would do the same.

My take is there is more-or-less one establishment party, and both wear some ID politics and social imaging on their sleeves.

 

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5 hours ago, Jake Hammond said:

 Great, I think I'll leave you guys to it then and concentrate on the JFK Assassination and open minded discussion . 

For my part, I welcome all points of view. I do not think anyone has a monopoly on truth or insights. 

Edited by Benjamin Cole
typo
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12 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Jake,

    In reality, there has been a dramatic rightward shift in the American political spectrum during the past 40 years.

    Democratic centrists today are, essentially, analogous to Eisenhower Republicans of the 1950s.  As an example, Eisenhower pushed spending on infrastructure, (e.g., the Interstate highway system) and believed that unnecessary military spending undermined funding for socially beneficial expenditures on education.  And top income tax rates under Eisenhower were 90%!

    Simultaneously, the Koch-owned GOP today is pushing policies associated with the extreme right wing of the Republican Party of the 1950s-- including Fred Koch's John Birchers.  The Kochs have always aimed at rolling back the New Deal, including Social Security, along with abolishing Medicare and Medicaid.

    It's somewhat surprising that so few people seem to realize that Paul Ryan and the Koch-controlled GOP "Tea Party" House actually passed two budget bills after 2010 which would have abolished Medicare, converting it into Ryan's "Voucher Care" program for future beneficiaries!

     Another obvious example of the modern rightward shift in the American political spectrum is the fact that the GOP today has been adamantly opposed to environmental protection, whereas Richard Nixon presided over the establishment of the EPA.

     The false equivalence/both sider-ist rhetoric nowadays equating essential Republican and Democratic domestic policies is not only inaccurate, but toxic.  There are dramatic, important differences between the policy positions of the Koch-owned (Trump) GOP and the Democratic Party on matters pertaining to tax policy, healthcare, education, infrastructure, environmental protection, and climate change mitigation.

     If you're interested in this subject, you should read Duke University Professor Nancy MacLean's landmark history of the modern Koch GOP, Democracy in Chains.

Dwight D. Eisenhower quote: Should any political party attempt to abolish social  security unemployment...

W, your a psychiatrist, you know jake is bating you.  Why do you take it?  Just to spit the lure out in his face?

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I wasn't baiting anyone I was testing the water to see if you guys are open on this thread, but you're not. I wasn't aware that a political venting / anti Trump thread had been started since I was last on and hence my original post . Having read  'into the Nightmare' I'm very aware of a Josephs political leaning so it was to be expected I guess. Which is all absolutely fine, I'm happy for you honestly. 

 The issue I have is that you claim to be open to discussion and not an echo chamber, which I 've seen no evidence of. I'm English and not part of either US party, I just like the truth and objective conversation. So I'll stick to JFK and let you guys alone to espouse liberal rhetoric. 

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8 hours ago, Jake Hammond said:

I wasn't baiting anyone I was testing the water to see if you guys are open on this thread, but you're not. I wasn't aware that a political venting / anti Trump thread had been started since I was last on and hence my original post . Having read  'into the Nightmare' I'm very aware of a Josephs political leaning so it was to be expected I guess. Which is all absolutely fine, I'm happy for you honestly. 

 The issue I have is that you claim to be open to discussion and not an echo chamber, which I 've seen no evidence of. I'm English and not part of either US party, I just like the truth and objective conversation. So I'll stick to JFK and let you guys alone to espouse liberal rhetoric. 

Jake,

What I posted (above) about the "rightward shift" in the American political spectrum during the past forty years is not rhetoric.  It's history.  (And I didn't even mention the rightward shift of the Republican Party on voting rights.  You may recall that the GOP largely supported the Voting Rights Act of 1965!)

And, BTW, this forum is the opposite of an "echo chamber."  The members here are generally well read and quite knowledgeable about history and current events.  Nor do we always agree.  In fact, we have some interesting, lively disagreements about history and current events.

 

Edited by W. Niederhut
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I've just skim read through the last 25 pages and its much worse than I initially thought. 

 - Rittenhouse is an evil right wing racist vigilante murderer of poor innocent black freedom fighters. 

 - Trump ( not been president for a while now guys) is the devil and the route of all non Utopianness

 - Get more boosters otherwise !!!   

-  He crossed state lines !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Rinse and repeat. 

 Not a single comment I could find countered anything anyone said. Its fine, just stop pretending . I won't comment on this thread again. Like I said initially I didn't realise there was a non JFK thread on here now and when I saw the comments I was surprised. If that's the way it is that's OK. I came back on here because I've settled in a new place and have a little time to indulge by bad habit of JFK Assassination research and was looking to put a line under the ' Rambler' issue in my own mind. Hence why I started that thread. A thread where all are welcome and all views will be considered and appreciated. 

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