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The inevitable end result of our last 56 years


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On 1/29/2022 at 10:01 AM, W. Niederhut said:

Paul,

     To be honest, I know very little about Joe Rogan.  I did watch his recent interview of Oliver Stone, which was reasonably well done.   To his credit, Rogan had the decency to give Oliver Stone a voice.  And Rogan seems likeable.  He's no Dick Cavett, but at least he did some homework on JFK Revisited.

     As for two of my favorite old hippies, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell, I'm sure that our right wing libertarian ideologues around here will agree that they have every right to refrain from doing business with a media corporation that has promoted COVID disinformation.  Right wing libertarians believe in "freedom" and individual rights, don't they? 🤥

     The "cancel culture" that I am most concerned about in the U.S. right now is the right wing Republican censorship of the teaching of true American history in our schools.  It's like something out of N-A-Z-I Germany in the 1930s.  Only white nationalist mythology allowed!   Can't teach about the history of slavery, Jim Crow, our genocidal Manifest Destiny, and the confiscation of half of Mexico in the 19th century by jingoistic white slave owners.

     

That’s all true in my opinion. And Young and Mitchell have every right to refrain from using Spotify. But they turned the focus on Joe Rogan, because they thought maybe they could start a movement. Their desire to strongly point out disinformation is admirable enough. But how does one counter the right wing cancel culture? I don’t think one can equate vaccine hesitancy, or distrust of big Pharma, with White Nationalism or worse. 

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10 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

I hope everyone is following what the congressional committee is finding out about the insurrection.  

If you are you will understand why the GOP wants it to go away.

This was a real attempt to subvert the constitution and if it had not been for Pence, it may have succeeded.  The arms were shipped into Virginia and the Oath Keepers had arranged for three Quick Reaction Forces to deploy in and around the capitol. I am about halfway there in thinking that the changes Trump made at the Pentagon were part of an arrangement to delay any National Guard presence and prolong the siege.   By my accounting, there were nine deaths due to this attack both in the assault and in the days that followed.  Trump probably knows he is in real legal trouble on several fronts and he wants to try again for a civil war if he is caught.   If that occurs, I am now beginning to think that he might replace W as the worst president ever in my hall of shame.

James D.--

Remember Congressional investigations are not courtrooms.

The old HUAC Committee (Nixon), the Benghazi Committee, even the Clinton Impeachment...they are kin to the Warren Commission---no aggressive counsel for the defense.  

What was on display in the JFKA was a stark public event, and then a “show trial”---the Warren Commission. There was a monopoly on, and a manipulation of evidence by intelligence agencies, and a complicit national media.

In a Congressional investigation, the scheduling and choice of topics, the people subpoenaed or not, the documents subpoenaed or not (all without a warrant, btw)---all controlled by majority staff.

What is investigated? 

This is a pattern that repeats. In the US, the usual format for show trials are Congressional committee hearings, including impeachment proceedings. The WC was something of a one-off, although the 9/11 Commission might be placed on the same ticket.

The 1/6 Commission is yet another show trial.  I have no truck with Trump.

But who believes the 1/6 Committee will aggressively investigate whether federal assets, in provocateurs instigated the 1/6 scrum? Why did the Capital Police not show up on 1/6? (They have 3,500 officers). How deep are federal assets into the Oathkeepers? 

This does not mean Trump engaged in no machinations. Indeed, it appears the Trumpers tried to invent half-baked constitutional and legal theories to thwart the election process. 

But the 1/6 scrum is worth contemplating. 

It is possible for 1. Trump to be a defective character, and 2. for the national security state to have wanted Trump out of office, by means usual or otherwise. 

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2 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

I don’t think one can equate vaccine hesitancy, or distrust of big Pharma, with White Nationalism or worse. 

I don't think any rational person can lump libertarians in with what some of the forum members call "far right". If you looked outside of the USA, and saw most capital cities in Europe a week or so ago flooded with protestors, you couldn't say they were on the "right" politically. They were protesting against mostly over freedom, perceived pharma corruption and government diktats. For all intents and purposes they are libertarians. You guys are closer to Canada, how would you characterise the supposedly 1.3m who occupied Ottawa, perhaps a 100km convoy of trucks. Has the supposedly friendliest country on earth got a far right problem?!
Trudeau called them a fringe minority. We'll never know the accurate numbers I guess. I did watch many videos from the European protests, it was like a revolution was in the air in some mainland European capital cities. MSM didn't really show it, only some people dressed like Antifa clashing with riot police in Belgium. It was all over Twitter. 

I've said repeatedly that I think the terms of left and right are redundant in our present time. Where did the threat of tyranny come from the lead up to WW2?! 

If you were trying to defeat a challenge to authority, it may well serve you to characterise your enemies as something they are not, something that the public finds unsavoury.  

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Kirk Gallaway writes:

Quote

Conservatives rave about Jordan Peterson because they like his instincts.

The guy they rave about seems to be a general-purpose reactionary nincompoop. He was recently on the Rogan chat show, spouting nonsense about climate change:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jan/27/word-salad-of-nonsense-scientists-denounce-jordan-petersons-comments-on-climate-models

Evidently, it's a subject about which he knows next to nothing. Apparently, the host also knew next to nothing about the subject and didn't correct Peterson's errors. Worryingly, millions of equally uninformed listeners might well have believed the nonsense he was spouting, and would have had their ignorance reinforced.

Here is a selection of quotes from some of the experts cited in the article:

  • "stunningly ignorant"
  • "He seems to think we model the future climate the same way we do the weather ... he's completely wrong. He has no frickin' idea."
  • "making the ancient climate sceptic error of mixing up weather and climate ... Anyone who has taken an introductory course in climate or atmospheric science would spot this problem"
  • "ill-informed ... mixed up weather prediction with climate projections. ... People are entitled to their opinions, but science and climate modelling isn't about opinion. If you're not well informed about how something is done then it's not right to make comments about it on a large platform."
  • "a total lack of understanding of how science works"
  • "a word salad of nonsense spoken by people who have no sense when it comes to climate. ... To say that climate model errors increase like compound interest is laughable. Jordan Peterson displays a near complete misunderstanding of climate change, and the tools climate scientists use to understand what is happening to our planet. ... It's as if someone, with zero expertise and knowledge, made comments about something he knows little about."
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2 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

I don't think any rational person can lump libertarians in with what some of the forum members call "far right". If you looked outside of the USA, and saw most capital cities in Europe a week or so ago flooded with protestors, you couldn't say they were on the "right" politically. They were protesting against mostly over freedom, perceived pharma corruption and government diktats. For all intents and purposes they are libertarians. You guys are closer to Canada, how would you characterise the supposedly 1.3m who occupied Ottawa, perhaps a 100km convoy of trucks. Has the supposedly friendliest country on earth got a far right problem?!
Trudeau called them a fringe minority. We'll never know the accurate numbers I guess. I did watch many videos from the European protests, it was like a revolution was in the air in some mainland European capital cities. MSM didn't really show it, only some people dressed like Antifa clashing with riot police in Belgium. It was all over Twitter. 

I've said repeatedly that I think the terms of left and right are redundant in our present time. Where did the threat of tyranny come from the lead up to WW2?! 

If you were trying to defeat a challenge to authority, it may well serve you to characterise your enemies as something they are not, something that the public finds unsavoury.  

Hey, there is the world's longest convoy ever, of truckers, in Canada, evidently a vaccine protest of sorts. Play that convoy song!

I am agnostic about a lot regarding C19 vaccines, except I am religious in that people have a right to express their opinions. 

I also wonder if the COVID-19 is the public health sector's Vietnamistan. 

The war goes on and on and on...but the enemy is tougher and smarter. 

Some wars you lose.  

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The way to counter misinformation is with Information, not with repression or shooting the messenger. It’s a sorry day when we try to shut down alternative voices. There is much room for discussion when it comes to Covid 19. There is still much to learn about viral mechanisms and about effective human responses. The Great Barrington declaration is interesting and well reasoned, and pointing out their financial backers doesn’t prove them wrong. That’s a debate we should have, and it worries me that the mainstream shuts them out. If Big Pharma would share MRNA technology rather than horde it for profit I would feel differently. 
the question I have about Jan 6 is where were the guns? I’ve heard the explanation put forth that it was a trial run. I don’t agree with Ben’s analysis. I like the trial run idea. I do think that Trump, and the Proud Boys and others like them are a real danger, much more so than nameless and faceless Antifa, which has now become a parody and a scapegoat and could really be anyone in black doing anyone’s bidding. 

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On 1/28/2022 at 7:00 PM, W. Niederhut said:

Good news and bad on the COVID-19 front, folks.

The bad news is that Omicron is killing people.  Omicron infections are less lethal than Delta, but more prevalent. *

The good news-- from the latest UK data-- is that vaccine boosters have reduced the Omicron death risk by 95% in people over 50.**

This is a subject we were discussing here last month-- i.e., is it worth getting a booster?  The answer is, "Yes."

*Omicron Deaths in U.S. Exceed Delta’s Peak as Covid-19 Optimism Rises in Europe

https://www.wsj.com/articles/omicron-deaths-in-u-s-exceed-deltas-peak-as-covid-19-optimism-rises-in-europe-11643201653

January 26, 2022

 

**Covid-19 Vaccine Booster Shot Cuts Omicron Death Risk by 95%, U.K. Study Shows

The analysis was done for people 50 and older, the population at highest risk of severe illness and death

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-vaccine-booster-shot-cuts-omicron-death-risk-by-95-u-k-study-shows-11643302875

January 27, 2022

I'm re-posting this data for Ben-the-Vaccine-Agnostic.

He, obviously, didn't read it or understand it the first time around... 🤥

And, incredibly, Ben is still pushing his debunked Fox News "Patriot Purge"/"scrum" narrative about Trump's January 6th coup attempt.  No amount of contrary evidence seems to dislodge Ben's fixed belief that Trump was not the driving force behind his coup attempt.

This is what "post-truth" politics is all about-- the reliance on "alternate facts," and the absurd notion that, "No one has a monopoly on truth."

It reminds me of the television comedy show, "Whose Line Is It Anyway?"-- where, "Everything is made up and the points don't matter."

Who was it who said, "Those who can make people believe absurdities can convince them to commit atrocities?"

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48 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

The way to counter misinformation is with Information, not with repression or shooting the messenger. It’s a sorry day when we try to shut down alternative voices. There is much room for discussion when it comes to Covid 19. There is still much to learn about viral mechanisms and about effective human responses. The Great Barrington declaration is interesting and well reasoned, and pointing out their financial backers doesn’t prove them wrong. That’s a debate we should have, and it worries me that the mainstream shuts them out. If Big Pharma would share MRNA technology rather than horde it for profit I would feel differently. 
the question I have about Jan 6 is where were the guns? I’ve heard the explanation put forth that it was a trial run. I don’t agree with Ben’s analysis. I like the trial run idea. I do think that Trump, and the Proud Boys and others like them are a real danger, much more so than nameless and faceless Antifa, which has now become a parody and a scapegoat and could really be anyone in black doing anyone’s bidding. 

Try here, Paul, for rapid and lucid updates. The latest variant of Omicron appears set to deliver us from yet another round of excessive, irrelevant and/or wildly counter-productive restrictions. This most conscientious and informative of men boasts the highest recommendation the UK can confer - he was recently smeared by the BBC

https://youtu.be/f9utczapsmI

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1 hour ago, Paul Rigby said:

Try here, Paul, for rapid and lucid updates. The latest variant of Omicron appears set to deliver us from yet another round of excessive, irrelevant and/or wildly counter-productive restrictions. This most conscientious and informative of men boasts the highest recommendation the UK can confer - he was recently smeared by the BBC

https://youtu.be/f9utczapsmI

I've been following this Dr for around a year, he is very logical and methodical. 

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2 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

The way to counter misinformation is with Information, not with repression or shooting the messenger. It’s a sorry day when we try to shut down alternative voices. There is much room for discussion when it comes to Covid 19. There is still much to learn about viral mechanisms and about effective human responses. The Great Barrington declaration is interesting and well reasoned, and pointing out their financial backers doesn’t prove them wrong. That’s a debate we should have, and it worries me that the mainstream shuts them out. If Big Pharma would share MRNA technology rather than horde it for profit I would feel differently. 
the question I have about Jan 6 is where were the guns? I’ve heard the explanation put forth that it was a trial run. I don’t agree with Ben’s analysis. I like the trial run idea. I do think that Trump, and the Proud Boys and others like them are a real danger, much more so than nameless and faceless Antifa, which has now become a parody and a scapegoat and could really be anyone in black doing anyone’s bidding. 

The problem is Paul that no matter what you present people with they will scrounge around for opinions, often times from people overstating or obfuscating their qualifications on the subject, to confirm what they already want to believe. The Antifa, FBI, False Flag BS is an excellent example. It's the same mentality that makes goose-stepping in Munich possible. Their hind brains respond to messages that are delivered below the level of their intellect and a classic sociopath like Trump understands how to appeal to that end instinctively. I personally have just come to the conclusion that the only functional way of communicating with most of these people is to insult them and move on.

It's exactly what Trump does to his followers. He basically cuckolds them. They don't realize that.

I for one am tired of CV (my wife has to deal with these idiots daily - they often refuse to enter her clinic with masks donned) but have concluded that Darwin is the best arbiter at this point. Anyone who refuses rudimentary hygiene precautions or vaccines are welcome to their outcome. In many ERs that's what they're calling it. The Darwin Variant.

The level of intelligence of these people is why there are signs in bathrooms to instruct people to wash their hands after going potty. Most adults don't have to be reminded.

Edited by Bob Ness
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6 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Hey, there is the world's longest convoy ever, of truckers, in Canada, evidently a vaccine protest of sorts. Play that convoy song!

It's obvious to me also, as it's the same thing ordinary people in Europe are protesting against. 
 

6 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I am agnostic about a lot regarding C19 vaccines, except I am religious in that people have a right to express their opinions. 

I think that's one of the best things to be religious about. 

What is so surprising is that people who have been afforded this tremendous safety and comfort in the west post WW2 by something that vaguely resembles democracy, are openly embracing authoritarianism in 2022, as if it'll somehow be better this time. There are also deluded people willing us to have another go at communism, claiming it wasn't proper communism last time and showing China as a good example. These people were able to sit through school history class and vaguely understand WW2 but, they are somehow unable to imagine that life can ever be that bad again. They are entirely ignorant of how liberal educated societies were walked into catastrophe in the name of the "greater good". Yes, they too thought they were doing things for the betterment of humanity. 

It's amazing how some people on this forum and wider society are now pro censorship. When has that ever ended well? They are somehow convinced that it's needed now. I have seen people talk about right wing cancel culture, but, there is zero condemnation when it is left wing cancel culture. Perhaps we'd do better to just call it all "cancel culture" and agree it is all bad. How is it people with relatively good educations have reduced themselves to such primeval thinking and simplicity? 

The answer is: FEAR. 
 

6 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I also wonder if the COVID-19 is the public health sector's Vietnamistan. 

 


I could read that two ways; 

1) Government and a proportion of society prolonging something that they should draw a line under, and move on from. People in government and media sticking to their guns because their fragile ego's can't admit they were wrong. It's a bit like this "profilicity" phenomenon that we see online. People see their digital impressions on social media as part of their personality, they'll fight for them no matter how wrong they were. That is a character flaw. 

2) Vietnam being the epitome of what Major General Smedley Butler expressed in his book: "War is a racket." A conflict kept going for profit. The pharmaceutical giants and any entity or person making money from this current racket, wants it to continue in perpetuity and they'll fight for that to happen. The politicians can't bring themselves to let go of their increased power. 

 

6 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

The war goes on and on and on...but the enemy is tougher and smarter. 

Some wars you lose.  


It truly is a mighty foe .... 
If we don't stand up for freedom and truth, who are we really? 

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Some of you may find this an interesting watch, as we had world holocaust day recently. It explains how Dr's ordered the medical experimentation, sterilisations, and euthanasia of Jews, Gypsies and Slavs. The nurses carried out the killing, even on babies. That is why we have the Nuremberg Code, which prohibits experimentation on citizens by government. 
It's very clear that when a society becomes obsessed with race, eugenics and human enhancement, they are capable of unthinkable things. As some people entertain medical mandates and human augmentation, they'd probably benefit from watching this. 
 

 

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It does seem like Joe Rogan is getting some heat from Spotify, or at least that's what I think has prompted this message.

Short video addressing the public here:
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CZYQ_nDJi6G/?utm_medium=share_sheet

It's worth thinking about why Joe Rogan's podcast has become so popular. IMHO it's largely due to the way MSM cuts interviews with interesting people down to very short sound bytes. If the person they are interviewing is an ideological opponent, then the interviewer spends their time trying to trick or catch out the person interviewed. This is no way to have public discourse, we might be used to it from politicians debating but, it isn't often constructive, and it doesn't serve free speech. Relaxed podcasts that last 2-3 hours are far more productive, and you also stand a much better chance of getting to know who these people really are. 

 

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9 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

The way to counter misinformation is with Information, not with repression or shooting the messenger. It’s a sorry day when we try to shut down alternative voices. There is much room for discussion when it comes to Covid 19. There is still much to learn about viral mechanisms and about effective human responses. The Great Barrington declaration is interesting and well reasoned, and pointing out their financial backers doesn’t prove them wrong. That’s a debate we should have, and it worries me that the mainstream shuts them out. If Big Pharma would share MRNA technology rather than horde it for profit I would feel differently. 
the question I have about Jan 6 is where were the guns? I’ve heard the explanation put forth that it was a trial run. I don’t agree with Ben’s analysis. I like the trial run idea. I do think that Trump, and the Proud Boys and others like them are a real danger, much more so than nameless and faceless Antifa, which has now become a parody and a scapegoat and could really be anyone in black doing anyone’s bidding. 

Paul,

     As a physician, I have been truly surprised by the ignorance and public resistance to basic pandemic health measures during the past two years-- quarantine/social distancing, the use of masks, and compliance with vaccines that have proven highly efficacious.   (We had a great thread going here on the forum in 2020 about "Journals of the Plague Year," where everyone seemed to be reasonably focused on the scientific data and doing the right thing.)

     The morbidity and mortality data during the Delta variant surge in 2021 demonstrated the remarkable efficacy of the vaccines-- with 99% of all U.S.COVID deaths in the last quarter of 2021 occurring in the un-vaccinated.  (I posted a reference link for the 2021 CDC morbidity & mortality data above.)

     Then the anti-vaxxers renewed their attacks on vaccines during the past six weeks on the grounds that they were not very effective in preventing Omicron infections.   (My wife and I both caught the Omicron bug over the Christmas holiday, despite being fully vaccinated.)

      But the most recent data from the U.K. has now shown that the vaccines, with boosters, reduced the Omicron death risk by 95%.  (I posted that reference above.)

       And the latest data also indicates that unvaccinated, at risk, people in the U.S. -- like Meat Loaf--are dying from Omicron in increased numbers.  (I posted that reference above.)

     As for the January 6th coup attempt, Ben's oft-repeated argument about the absence of guns has been repeatedly debunked by me and others, on the grounds that the Capitol Police were too overwhelmed on January 6th to arrest and search the attacking mob for weapons.  Most of the Capitol attackers were identified and arrested ex post facto.

     We now know precisely where some of the guns were cached.  That information has surfaced in the DOJ indictments against the Oath Keepers charged with seditious conspiracy.   And we also have information about other weapons brought to the Capitol by Trump's "Stop the Steal" mob, including the man from Alabama who brought homemade napalm bombs to the Capitol in his truck!

     Above all, we now know that Trump was actively conspiring to overturn the election results.  We have the Eastman and Ellis memos, and Trump, himself, just openly admitted the plot at his MAGA rally in Conroe, Texas.

     Why is Trump's confession of his coup plot not in the M$M headlines?

      

Edited by W. Niederhut
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