The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[W. Niederhut]

11 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

W.-

Maybe. I suspect you imbibed deeply of the blue kool-aid before taking to your keyboard. 

Or maybe, the DC globalists (who run Biden) initially decided there was more money to be made by rolling over on Ukraine, and doing business with Putin. Ergo, the flaccid response pre-invasion. 

But now, Ukraine has put up a fight, and won the PR battle (in part as Putin has been demonized for years by DC elites, as they loathed the anti-globalist Trump and had the Russiagate hoax going).  

So, now the globalists are flat-footed. They cannot rehabilitate Putin's image, so they are stuck giving no real response. No no fly zones, no real military assistance, but some delaying actions, small-arms stuff. 

And, remember, Xi still gets a pass. The globalists like Xi. Xi, in some regards, makes Putin look like Peter Pan. 

Personally, I favor a no fly zone over Ukraine, and some real military gear for Zelensky. C-130 gunships, and destroy the convoy. 

But in DC globalism-land, they are more worried about trucker protest convoys than lethal convoys bearing down on civilians in Kyiv. 

 

 

Ben,

      Honestly, I was never a kool-aid drinker-- unlike the January 6th insurrectionists, poorly-informed Russia-gate deniers, Free-Dumb Convoy anti-vaxxers, and Fox News "Patriot Purgers."  Sound familiar?

      And there are several problems with your latest erroneous "theory" above.

      For one thing, Biden and Blinken were aggressive about conferring with our EU allies, and outing Putin's false flag plans, BEFORE he invaded Ukraine.  It was a pro-active strategy.

     As much as the Putin-admiring Trumplicans now want to blame Biden for Putin's ghastly invasion, the blame rests solely on Putin's shoulders.  And Biden is bringing significant pressure to bear on Putin, short of direct U.S. military engagement and WWIII.

    What we need from Fox and the Trumplicans right now is less anti-Biden propaganda and more acknowledgement that Trump was always a NATO-bashing Russian asset.     

     Lest we forget...

      

[Ron Bulman]

Are the bastards targeting hospitals?  Unconscionable.  Thishas to be stopped somehow.

Russia Bombed A Maternity Ward In Ukraine, Authorities Said (buzzfeednews.com)

[Kirk Gallaway]

Ben:Or maybe, the DC globalists (who run Biden) initially decided there was more money to be made by rolling over on Ukraine, and doing business with Putin. Ergo, the flaccid response pre-invasion. 

Ben, Your narrative is 180 degrees wrong. I don't think you realize what's going on.

Now companies from almost every industry and every sector  are pulling  out of Russia. Bp, Exon, Shell, Caterpillar, Ford, Toyota, Ferari, Volkswagen, Addidas, Disney, Ikea, Nike, Sony, John Deere, General Electric, Honeywell, Starbux, Pepsi, Coca Cola, Mac Donalds, Discover, Visa. Mastercard, American Express, Moody's, Netflix, Apple, Google, Tik Tok, Facebook.   I never thought I would see such divestment. And as someone whose down on the corporate state, I'm  not completely comfortable with it. In this case, they're right, but they may not be in the future.

All those corporations don't personally undertake to go to war.  That's through an act of government that could be influenced by the Defense industry, but you're calling them and the government cowards because in the U.S. there's enough wariness in public support after after waging 2 horrible wars, to get involved directly with Russia in a war, with good reason. But I'm not altogether sure you won't end up getting your way, because I haven't seen the public get so pro involvement about a foreign war since after 911, and it looks like if this doesn't stop, there could at least be a proxy war.

We're essentially abiding by an agreement we've made to not get involved with Ukraine. And the entire premise that Putin is using is that he can invade  because in his paranoia, he  envisions some day when we could make a deal to defend Ukraine. What complete hippocracy! Ukraine had the third biggest nuclear arsenal in the world and gave it up in the Budapest memorandum, under the condition that 2 signatories, Russia and the U.S. would not invade them, and Russia has violated that agreement.

Of course any power move that's made has to be evaluated if we are pushing Putin further in a corner and how far will he go?  He's already lost enough. Even if there was an agreement by Zelensky to not join Nato, he will forever be a pariah, and will never be trusted on the world scene again. So this will have turned out to be a miserable failure in any case.

[Benjamin Cole]

6 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Ben:Or maybe, the DC globalists (who run Biden) initially decided there was more money to be made by rolling over on Ukraine, and doing business with Putin. Ergo, the flaccid response pre-invasion. 

Ben, Your narrative is 180 degrees wrong. I don't think you realize what's going on.

Now companies from almost every industry and every sector  are pulling  out of Russia. Bp, Exon, Shell, Caterpillar, Ford, Toyota, Ferari, Volkswagen, Addidas, Disney, Ikea, Nike, Sony, John Deere, General Electric, Honeywell, Starbux, Pepsi, Coca Cola, Mac Donalds, Discover, Visa. Mastercard, American Express, Moody's, Netflix, Apple, Google, Tik Tok, Facebook.   I never thought I would see such divestment. And as someone whose down on the corporate state, I'm  not completely comfortable with it. In this case, they're right, but they may not be in the future.

All those corporations don't personally undertake to go to war.  That's through an act of government that could be influenced by the Defense industry, but you're calling them and the government cowards because in the U.S. there's enough wariness in public support after after waging 2 horrible wars, to get involved directly with Russia in a war, with good reason. But I'm not altogether sure you won't end up getting your way, because I haven't seen the public get so pro involvement about a foreign war since after 911, and it looks like if this doesn't stop, there could at least be a proxy war.

We're essentially abiding by an agreement we've made to not get involved with Ukraine. And the entire premise that Putin is using is that he can invade  because in his paranoia, he  envisions some day when we could make a deal to defend Ukraine. What complete hippocracy! Ukraine had the third biggest nuclear arsenal in the world and gave it up in the Budapest memorandum, under the condition that 2 signatories, Russia and the U.S. would not invade them, and Russia has violated that agreement.

Of course any power move that's made has to be evaluated if we are pushing Putin further in a corner and how far will he go?  He's already lost enough. Even if there was an agreement by Zelensky to not join Nato, he will forever be a pariah, and will never be trusted on the world scene again. So this will have turned out to be a miserable failure in any case.

Kirk-

Yes, now everyone is hopping on the Zelensky board. But they sure showed no resolve beforehand.

When the tide turned (due to Ukrainian resistance), the globalists saw being on Putin's side would be less profitable than being on Zelensky's side.  And they could not rehabilitate the Putin's image. 

Remember,  publicly held companies (ie, all multinationals) have fiduciary obligations to shareholders to maximize profits, and that trumps all other concerns. If a multinational makes more money doing business with Putin, then they do business with Putin---or, especially, Xi. 

But now, being aligned with Putin is a money-losing proposition. 

Xi makes Putin look like Peter Pan. You think Apple is going to pull out of China? BlackRock? WalMart? Tesla? GM? Goldman Sachs? 

Xi is running concentration camps, and has thrown publisher Jimmy Lai in prison---and that is the tip of the iceberg. 

Most of all, I hope for peace. If not, then that serious arms are brought to bear on the convoy. 

 

[Matt Allison]

One upside to all this: any pretense that Fox is a real news channel or pro-America has left the barn and will not be returning. Only those radicalized beyond help are still buying what they're selling.

The proof? 79% of American are ok with paying more for gas if it means stiffing Russia and helping Ukraine.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-03-08/card/wsj-poll-79-of-americans-back-ban-on-russian-oil-even-if-energy-prices-rise-niT9f6YRH5wRWe4pbhNv

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Ben,

      Honestly, I was never a kool-aid drinker-- unlike the January 6th insurrectionists, poorly-informed Russia-gate deniers, Free-Dumb Convoy anti-vaxxers, and Fox News "Patriot Purgers."  Sound familiar?

      And there are several problems with your latest erroneous "theory" above.

      For one thing, Biden and Blinken were aggressive about conferring with our EU allies, and outing Putin's false flag plans, BEFORE he invaded Ukraine.  It was a pro-active strategy.

     As much as the Putin-admiring Trumplicans now want to blame Biden for Putin's ghastly invasion, the blame rests solely on Putin's shoulders.  And Biden is bringing significant pressure to bear on Putin, short of direct U.S. military engagement and WWIII.

    What we need from Fox and the Trumplicans right now is less anti-Biden propaganda and more acknowledgement that Trump was always a NATO-bashing Russian asset.     

     Lest we forget...

      

Biden has looked uncoordinated, flabby and weak on Ukraine. Yes, the GOP and allied media is drinking the red kool-aid and hooping it up for partisan gain, but it is still true Biden has been underwhelming at best.

Fiona Hill says Biden has projected such a weak image that he encouraged Putin to invade. Certainly, Biden promised, pre-invasion, not to militarily intervene. A green light for a thug like Putin? 

Sheesh, the US can not even transfer eight fighter jets to Ukraine? Greece is giving two C-130 aircraft. Verily, Greece is willing to take risks. 

The key to Biden's behavior is, "What does the globalist class, the multinationals want?" 

The globalists wanted to do nothing on Ukraine, but they lost control of the narrative, due to Ukrainian resistance, and the fact they cannot rehabilitate Putin's image.  The globalists are now wondering how to limit damage to their images and bottom lines.

So...Biden is a muddle. He doesn't know what to do.  A convoy is headed to Kyiv and the civilians who live there and Biden is...doing what?  Deciding that, "Oh no! We can't allow Poland to send fighter jets to Ukraine. What if Putin gets angry?" 

I think you need to mention the 1/6 scrum again. That will absolve Biden. 

 

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

3 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

One upside to all this: any pretense that Fox is a real news channel or pro-America has left the barn and will not be returning. Only those radicalized beyond help are still buying what they're selling.

The proof? 79% of American are ok with paying more for gas if it means stiffing Russia and helping Ukraine.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-03-08/card/wsj-poll-79-of-americans-back-ban-on-russian-oil-even-if-energy-prices-rise-niT9f6YRH5wRWe4pbhNv

Matt-

Is there a "real" news channel in America?  Pray tell. Not that I watch TV anymore (actually, I don't have one) but I could follow some YouTubes. 

 

 

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

55 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Yes, now everyone is hopping on the Zelensky board. But they sure showed no resolve beforehand.

I'm not sure what resolve they were supposed to have. They understood that treaty wise, the U.S. could do nothing and I suppose everybody can be blamed now for not expecting the worst.

 

55 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

When the tide turned (due to Ukrainian resistance), the globalists saw being on Putin's side would be less profitable than being on Zelensky's side.  And they could not rehabilitate the Putin's image. 

First off, I don't think there's ever been a globalist campaign to prop up Putin, most of it is the standard corporate apologist sheepishness. "If we don't do business with him, someone else will." Only Trump and his group propped up Putin.

I think the start of the divestment wave came before we could effectively know Zelensky and Ukraine were putting up any real effective resistance at all. He could have just been BS'ing to keep morale, for all we know. The only thing we could be sure about is that he denied the U.S. giving him exile. It's hard for me to believe Joe Biden would have been so persuasive to corporate America, as you depict him. (Yes, he''s pulled strings for his son, but he was  one of the least invested people in Congress, except for a few lefties.)   The cascade of corporate divestment has been so quick, it's hard to know what influence Biden had, but he will be given credit for it.

Ben:The globalists are now wondering how to limit damage to their images and bottom lines.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Who are they suppose to apologize to? Apologize to Ben, whose done a 3 day conversion from posting a  Hilary Clinton post on Sunday, preaching to us to not to be like Hilary and  get sucked into a war, and has suddenly found religion and is gung ho on invading Ukraine now?

i guarantee you they will not get any flak from their shareholders either.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Kirk Gallaway

[Benjamin Cole]

18 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I'm not sure what resolve they were supposed to have. They understood that treaty wise, the U.S. could do nothing and I suppose everybody can be blamed now for not expecting the worst.

 

First off, I don't think there's ever been a globalist campaign to prop up Putin, most of it is the standard corporate apologist sheepishness. "If we don't do business with him, someone else will." Only Trump and his group propped up Putin.

I think the start of the divestment wave came before we could effectively know Zelensky and Ukraine were putting up any real effective resistance at all. He could have just been BS'ing to keep morale, for all we know. The only thing we could be sure about is that he denied the U.S. giving him exile. It's hard for me to believe Joe Biden would have been so persuasive to corporate America, as you depict him. (Yes, he''s pulled strings for his son, but he was  one of the least invested people in Congress, except for a few lefties.)   The cascade of corporate divestment has been so quick, it's hard to know what influence Biden had, but he will be given credit for it.

Ben:The globalists are now wondering how to limit damage to their images and bottom lines.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Who are they suppose to apologize to? Apologize to Ben, whose done a 4 day conversion from posting a  Hilary Clinton post on Sunday, preaching to us to not to be like Hilary and  get sucked into a war, and has suddenly found religion and is gung ho on invading Ukraine now?

Kirk-

Yes, the multinationals, the globalists, are always looking for the best solution...which is defined by the bottom line, as they are required to do by corporate charter and fiduciary obligation to shareholders. 

The thing to remember is Biden is totally a creature of globalist establishment. 

When doing nothing seemed like the best response on Ukraine, Biden-globalists did nothing. When the tide turned to Zelensky's favor (thanks to Ukrainian resolve and Putin's image, one that cannot be rehabilitated), they half-heartedly backed Zelensky.

Which is where we are today. In a muddle. 

As for Hillary Clinton, I was laughing at her for noting the Russians bogged down in Afghanistan, and her total amnesia regarding a more recent boondoggle that took place there. Perhaps you remember the Americans had bad luck in Afghanistan.

But hey, remember the 1/6 scrum. That means Biden is doing the right thing on Ukraine. 

 

 

 

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

On 3/6/2022 at 7:16 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

Hillary informs viewers the Russians got bogged down in Afghanistan. 

There is a great history lesson there, and it may happen again in Ukraine. 

 

Ben:Hillary informs viewers the Russians got bogged down in Afghanistan. 

There is a great history lesson there, and it may happen again in Ukraine. 

 

This is what i mean by Ben finding religion, in 3 short days. Now he's gung ho invasion.

.Why should we pay any any attention to your changing feelings?

[Benjamin Cole]

1 minute ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Ben:Hillary informs viewers the Russians got bogged down in Afghanistan. 

There is a great history lesson there, and it may happen again in Ukraine. 

 

This is what i mean by Ben finding religion, in 3 short days. Now he's gung ho invasion.

.Why should we pay any any attention to your changing feelings?

Kirk-

You do not have to pay attention to my changing feelings. 

[David G. Healy]

8 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Kirk-

You do not have to pay attention to my changing feelings. 

all this political/intellectual bravado yet Joe's numbers are climbing. Maybe the Putin-ites need to be burped?

[Ron Bulman]

16 minutes ago, David G. Healy said:

all this political/intellectual bravado yet Joe's numbers are climbing. Maybe the Putin-ites need to be burped?

Thanks for the belly laugh David on the burping.

[Matt Allison]

Just out of curiosity, what would be the opposite of globalism? Tribalism?

[Benjamin Cole]

38 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

Just out of curiosity, what would be the opposite of globalism? Tribalism?

That's an interesting question. 

Unfortunately, the answer is probably not a clean one defined by macroeconomic theory, or ideology. 

I wish more people would read "Trade Wars are Class Wars" by Michael Pettit, and "The Deep State" by Mike Lofgren, as well as some of the national security state literature recommended by James DiEugenio. 

Also, unfortunately, the answer may be a null set. Along the lines of "Well, you have to have good government by insightful people."  Good luck with that. 

But the laissez-faire, free trade, libertarian answer is also toxic at times, and could very well be lethal, if it comes to financing a Putin or Xi. 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Benjamin Cole
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