Benjamin Cole Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 51 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: I told you why. But you won't listen. You believe what you want to believe and disregard the rest. Please stop reading fake news. The MSM gets some things wrong, but Jan. 6 is not one of them. Sandy: Yes, you told me. But...if you think the parliamentarian's office was targeted...would you not seek out obvious provocateurs, and put them under oath? There is no debating whether Ray Epps was a provocateur or not. That has been copiously recorded on video and is the reason why Epps was on the FBI's"Most Wanted" list for six months. Epps' explanation of why he spent two days (1/5 and 1/6) exhorting protestors to actually "go into the Capitol" is rather weak. He told the New York Times that he went to DC from his home state in the West to listen to Trump speak Epps. Then Epps did not listen to Trump speak, but rather stood outside the Capitol instigating crowds to occupy the Capitol. I am skeptical of the M$M narrative on 1/6, and as for the 1/6 committee...well, committees and commissions...think the WC and the HSCA. And those bodies operated in a less-divided time. Keep an open mind. The M$M, or the two major parties, never "have it right." They generate narratives for advantage in every situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 26 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said: Sandy: Yes, you told me. But...if you think the parliamentarian's office was targeted...would you not seek out obvious provocateurs, and put them under oath? There is no debating whether Ray Epps was a provocateur or not. That has been copiously recorded on video and is the reason why Epps was on the FBI's"Most Wanted" list for six months. Epps' explanation of why he spent two days (1/5 and 1/6) exhorting protestors to actually "go into the Capitol" is rather weak. He told the New York Times that he went to DC from his home state in the West to listen to Trump speak Epps. Then Epps did not listen to Trump speak, but rather stood outside the Capitol instigating crowds to occupy the Capitol. I am skeptical of the M$M narrative on 1/6, and as for the 1/6 committee...well, committees and commissions...think the WC and the HSCA. And those bodies operated in a less-divided time. Keep an open mind. The M$M, or the two major parties, never "have it right." They generate narratives for advantage in every situation. Ben, Okay, I think you are right to be suspicious. But not because he was on the FBI's most wanted list and then removed without being arrested. He was, after all, questioned. I think he was taken off the list and not arrested simply because he didn't appear to have committed any crimes the FBI was focusing on. However, he did act suspiciously. Specifically, he engaged in neither Trump's rally nor the insurrection, and yet was encouraging others to enter the Capitol. Something's wrong with that. But my best guess is different from yours. I'll bet that he is connected to the Proud Boys or Oath Keepers and was encouraging others to go inside on their behalf. It was certain PB's and/or OK's jobs to break into the Capitol, and Ray Epp's and others' jobs to encourage Trump supporters to go inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: Ben, Okay, I think you are right to be suspicious. But not because he was on the FBI's most wanted list and then removed without being arrested. He was, after all, questioned. I think he was taken off the list and not arrested simply because he didn't appear to have committed any crimes the FBI was focusing on. However, he did act suspiciously. Specifically, he engaged in neither Trump's rally nor the insurrection, and yet was encouraging others to enter the Capitol. Something's wrong with that. But my best guess is different from yours. I'll bet that he is connected to the Proud Boys or Oath Keepers and was encouraging others to go inside on their behalf. It was certain PB's and/or OK's jobs to break into the Capitol, and Ray Epp's and others' jobs to encourage Trump supporters to go inside. Sandy-- Thanks for your reply. From my perch here in SE Asia, I cannot assert the truth of the 1/6 events. I can only tell you I am deeply skeptical of the M$M treatment (and with some reason--see the JFKA, or the Wuhan Lab Leak). I am skeptical that the Capitol Police hardly showed up and then stood down--but were then lionized in The Washington Post, a paper that routinely savages police departments everywhere. I cannot think of another protest in which an officer shot an unarmed protestor who was not threatening that officer---and The Washington Post says nothing. The whole Brian Sicknick untrue story is a clue to the media treatment that 1/6 has received. All that said, it is possible Trump thought he could pull off a coup. I hope he goes to trial and gets a stout defense by competent counsel, and let the chips fall where they may. Interesting question: Since our government is opaque, we do not know if the FBI tracked Ray Epps through his smartphone, using the geolocation techniques they used on other suspects. It would be fascinating to know if his geolocation links with that of federal assets or plants in the crowd, or with agitator groups such as Oath Keepers. I also wonder if there is a trial of Trump, will the FBI or other intel agencies be compelled to reveal assets they have in the crowd on 1/6. We learned of extensive use of plants and assets in the Whitmer kidnapping case, so much so the left-wingish The Intercept says the case would have never happened except for federal instigators. So, color me skeptical of the M$M establishment-party treatment of 1/6. But...based on plenty of precedents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bacon Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 I'm not sure the idea that the Coup could have succeeded really floats. Remember how outraged many Republican leaders were for a couple of weeks? In my view, everything that has befallen us, has been brought to us by the Republican party... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 15 hours ago, Mark Knight said: While the attack itself derailed and delayed the Congressional certification of the state-certified electoral vote totals, had the box been found and absconded with, the Congressional certification of electoral votes could NOT have continued. Mark, Copies are also sent to the National Archives for this very reason.. Wouldn't they just have used those? That's why the National Archives is a party to the whole fake Elector scheme. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 https://web.archive.org/web/20220715225511/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/13/us/politics/jan-6-conspiracy-theory-ray-epps.html I wonder if this will be readable.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 On 1/19/2022 at 9:26 AM, W. Niederhut said: Fact Checker Analysis How Trump supporter Ray Epps became entangled in a Trump-touted conspiracy theory https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/01/19/how-trump-supporter-ray-epps-became-entangled-trump-touted-conspiracy-theory/ by Glenn Kessler January 19, 2022 Incredibly, six months later, Ben is still repeatedly posting about his Ray Epps/patriot purge "theory" of Trump's January 6th coup attempt -- while simultaneously tuning out and deflecting from the Congressional J6 evidence documenting Trump's central role in the coup attempt. If you do a forum search for "Ray Epps," (content and titles) Ben has well over 20 posts about Ray Epps during the past year-- mostly redundant. Last weekend's Marist poll found that 80% of Republicans still deny Trump's role in promoting and inciting his January 6th attack on the U.S. Congress. 68% of Fox News watchers in another recent poll still, apparently, blame "left wing" radicals for the January 6th attack on Congress. So, obviously, a substantial number of Republicans are still determined to blame Trump's J6 coup attempt on anyone but Donald Trump. And these are the same people who have tuned out the historic Congressional J6 hearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 On 7/23/2022 at 11:03 AM, Chris Barnard said: I wider question is; should this thread exist and should we just stick to JFK related topics? I enjoy the wider debate but, certain threads are more problematic than others. Thoughts? My thoughts Chris? I believe in free speech and I'm not about to take away all of our free speech rights on this thread because of one butt angry lunatic like Wheeler. That is certainly an abrupt draconian turnaround for you, particularly as someone who didn't even think someone calling Biden a murderer was a big deal in the first place. What changed in those hours? If you find this thread is bringing you problems to the point you want to give it up, simply don't participate,or take a rest and listen to the real deal, the Americans share their views about what's going on in their country. But don't try to take away our rights. Ben being an ardent fee speech advocate, I think would agree with me.Though he may not say so. ***** Then than that 10X rant against W.! , where you actually start out boasting about your complete mastery over your emotions. You've obviously been boning up on "5 Habits that will make you powerful beyond belief" by Jordan Peterson" that I saw in an ad. I know you're a big fan. Then you go into a diatribe about W. concerning the covid pandemic, and you predicted monkeypox?. Then I remembered back how alarmed your tone was when you said that the covid vaccines were making young athletes "drop dead like flies!!", and you floated the Q'ish notion that the powers that be, (I assume what powers could that be that didn't include Bill Gates?), were devising another strain to cull the population down to a manageable number. I've heard from other such sources that they aim to reduce the population by 80%! Are you predicting this one is the one?! Maybe it's already happened, and I'm so oblivious, I just didn't notice it. I apologize. Then your dynamic quote at the finish! “The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. An individual in a crowd is a grain of sand amid other grains of sand, which the wind stirs up at will.” Gustave Le Bon Whew! That was a real cold shot to the masses and W.! I love the way you nailed the lowly masses to the cross! That was so inspiring! I don't think they'll ever recover! Your degree of mastery over your emotions will leave them sprawling in the dust! It might be a jolly good time to take a victory lap holiday to the colonies! heh heh heh I'm sorry, but one cool thing about Trump is that I can feel freer about taking little digs at foreigners now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 55 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said: My thoughts Chris? I believe in free speech and I'm not about to take away all of our free speech rights on this thread because of one butt angry lunatic like Wheeler. That is certainly an abrupt draconian turnaround for you, particularly as someone who didn't even think someone calling Biden a murderer was a big deal in the first place. What changed in those hours? If you find this thread is bringing you problems to the point you want to give it up, simply don't participate,or take a rest and listen to the real deal, the Americans share their views about what's going on in their country. But don't try to take away our rights. Ben being an ardent fee speech advocate, I think would agree with me.Though he may not say so. ***** Then than that 10X rant against W.! , where you actually start out boasting about your complete mastery over your emotions. You've obviously been boning up on "5 Habits that will make you powerful beyond belief" by Jordan Peterson" that I saw in an ad. I know you're a big fan. Then you go into a diatribe about W. concerning the covid pandemic, and you predicted monkeypox?. Then I remembered back how alarmed your tone was when you said that the covid vaccines were making young athletes "drop dead like flies!!", and you floated the Q'ish notion that the powers that be, (I assume what powers could that be that didn't include Bill Gates?), were devising another strain to cull the population down to a manageable number. I've heard from other such sources that they aim to reduce the population by 80%! Are you predicting this one is the one?! Maybe it's already happened, and I'm so oblivious, I just didn't notice it. I apologize. Then your dynamic quote at the finish! “The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. An individual in a crowd is a grain of sand amid other grains of sand, which the wind stirs up at will.” Gustave Le Bon Whew! That was a real cold shot to the masses and W.! I love the way you nailed the lowly masses to the cross! That was so inspiring! I don't think they'll ever recover! Your degree of mastery over your emotions will leave them sprawling in the dust! It might be a jolly good time to take a victory lap holiday to the colonies! heh heh heh I'm sorry, but one cool thing about Trump is that I can feel freer about taking little digs at foreigners now. Touched a nerve there I guess (again). I’ll respond in a bit when I have more time. As per usual, you’ve mischaracterised and misunderstood. You are getting on a bit though. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Boy this is staggering! There's so many interlocuters involved in our election process, it's almost like a rigorous chain of custody, which might have been necessary 250 years ago, but in this age where millions of dollars are being transferred over phones, and verified people could vote from their armchairs, to subject our process to the possibility that a bunch of thugs could turn the process topsy turvy at any one of a few choke points is very alarming!. We just need a major overhaul to bring this up to the 21st century! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Well, you have to wonder why? https://www.thedailybeast.com/liz-cheney-and-adam-kinzinger-say-secret-service-agents-wont-testify-about-jan-6-under-oath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said: Well, you have to wonder why? https://www.thedailybeast.com/liz-cheney-and-adam-kinzinger-say-secret-service-agents-wont-testify-about-jan-6-under-oath Yes, especially when they've been willing to "testify" in the right wing media-- e.g., impugning Cassidy Hutchinson's reputation. We still need to hear sworn testimony from a number of key Trump J6 insiders, including Meadows, Giuliani, Flynn, Tony Ornato, and Brian Engel. And where is Mike Pence? The guy needs to put country before party and tell America what he witnessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 As predicted, Trump's SS agents were 100% part of the plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 I find it quite telling that those who call the testimony taken by the January 6th Committee "lies" aren't as willing to testify under oath about what they claim the "lies" are. They go to Twitter and other social media, but don't volunteer to swear an oath that they will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Dem blasts 'insane' GOP bill that would authorize 'deadly force' to stop abortions in North Carolina by Brad Reed July 25, 2022 https://www.rawstory.com/north-carolina-abortion-ban/ “A Democratic state senator from North Carolina this week shined a light on a bill proposed by his Republican colleagues that he described as "completely insane" because it would authorize using "deadly force" to stop people in the state from getting abortions. In a video posted on his social media accounts, North Carolina State Sen. Jeff Jackson drew attention to North Carolina House Bill 158, a piece of legislation drafted last year that extends the rights of personhood to fetuses and says that "any person who willfully seeks to destroy the life of another person, by any means, at any stage of life, or succeeds in doing so, shall be held accountable for attempted murder or for first degree murder, respectively." The bill goes on toe say that "any person has the right to defend his or her own life or the life of another person, even by the use of deadly force if necessary, from willful destruction by another person," which implies that any citizen would have the right to kill a doctor performing an abortion or a woman taking an abortion pill. In his video, Jackson comments that the bill makes it legal to "kill a doctor or a nurse or anyone involved" in the process of terminating a pregnancy.” Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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