Jump to content
The Education Forum

Death Stare photo cannot be in Bethesda Morgue


Recommended Posts

Found this recently - RYBERG drawing of Bethesda Morgue....

454615996_Bethesda-Hospital-morgue-drawn-by-Rydberg-2003-smaller.jpg.6ba9e04e370f5110e759ab83b0866b68.jpg

 

Can anyone please explain how this photo (which has to be about where BOSWELL is in the Ryberg drawing) is taken in that room.. or in the room drawn by O'Connor down below. 
To his left would be the GALLERY,and neither of those 2 objects are gallery related...

286192104_F1stare.thumb.jpg.1d856437c6e78cca15dfbc1bece18723.jpg

 

md201_0001a.gif.3a7a397ffadf2e7ecc87df30e751355a.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 31
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Well...the Rydberg and O'Connor drawings (both done decades later) don't match, either, since O'Connor puts the coolers in a room separate from the autopsy room, and the sinks far to the left of table 1.

Edited by David Andrews
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The one to the right looks like a tiled curb of a shower.  The one on the left looks like a wheeled wooden cart or table of some sort.  

DJ you likely know better than I this gets a lot deeper.  Other pictures not from Bethesda, something about the telephone, a brace used in a picture of the head.

The death stare photo always makes me wonder this.  Father Huber (?) said either JHK's eyes were closed  or he closed them the last time he saw him.  I.E. right before he was put in the ceremonial heavy bronze casket in Dallas.  Why would anyone open them back up during this period?

By the time they got to Bethesda would not some form of rigamortis have been likely?  It kicks in between one and seven hours.  

They are extremely wide open in the picture.  Beyond normal?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For all the onlookers alleged to be present...both drawings seem to show the gallery area as very small, and not the great, dramatic arena seating you see in hospital movies...or in JFK.

Edited by David Andrews
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Ryberg drew JFK facing the wrong way the camera would be facing the cabinets. I noticed that O'Connor drew the shipping casket as being squared off on the right but not on the left side. Does that imply the head was on the left and the feet on the right?

Maybe they just reversed the negative when they printed this photo and we are really looking at JFK's left side and they doctored the image thinking they were working on the right side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the photo below, the telephone and the wall corner to its left (assuming it is an inside corner) matches the Rydberg drawing, but only if Kennedy was on the other table. Rydberg wasn't at the autopsy as far as I know, so he could have gotten that wrong.

 

BE1_HI.JPG

 

454615996_Bethesda-Hospital-morgue-drawn-by-Rydberg-2003-smaller.jpg.6ba9e04e370f5110e759ab83b0866b68.jpg

 

 

But that doesn't explain DJ's question.

Alternatively, if Kennedy were in the O'Connor morgue shown below, on table #1with his head to the right, then this would fit the above photo as well. There would need to be a phone on the wall to Kennedy's right. In this case the corner to the left of the phone in the photo has to be an outside corner.

md201_0001a.gif.3a7a397ffadf2e7ecc87df30e751355a.gif

 

This scenario can also explain DJ's question. To Kennedy's left in the photo below, on the floor, is the gallery to the right and a movable wooden thing to the left. It is blocking the rightmost door in O'Connor's drawing.

 

286192104_F1stare.thumb.jpg.1d856437c6e78cca15dfbc1bece18723.jpg

 

I'd put my money on this explanation.

As for why Rydberg remembers the morgue differently, I haven't a clue.

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The conversation between Bill Lynch and James Curtis Jenkins in "At the Cold Shoulder of History" may be of relevance here. Bill Lynch used to assist at the autopsies at Bethesda morgue like Jenkins, however, November 22 was not Lynch's watch. The conversation raised the issues of a head block (Bethesda morgue did not use metal plates to support the head), tiles, the location of the phone and the stretchable phone cable. However, it seems that these two gentlemen discussed a different photograph than the one showed by David. It could be the photograph showing the President from the left profile. All in all, it seems entirely possible that the initial set of pictures (before the U incision was made on the chest) was taken somewhere else. 

 

Late edit: I just saw the picture posted by Sandy, that was the one I was thinking of.

Edited by Andrej Stancak
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember someone years ago suggesting that the death stare photo was taken in a morgue or some such facility at Bethesda used by veterinarians, and that the wooden thing on the floor was an animal cage. I don't know why there would be an animal hospital or whatever inside a human hospital, but this person professed knowledge that there was such a facility at Bethesda, and that it would have been handy to use for the pre-autopsy autopsy.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

This scenario can also explain DJ's question. To Kennedy's left in the photo below, on the floor, is the gallery to the right and a movable wooden thing to the left. It is blocking the rightmost door in O'Connor's drawing.

Sandy that doesn't explain what appears to be a permanent  "tiled" area to the right of the photo.

Edited by Ray Mitcham
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey guys, if when you read my last post you saw a string of random characters, that was supposed to be a photo. My post makes little sense without it.

Please re-read that post, now that I have fixed the photo. I think it's important. (I think it solves the mystery. Or.... maybe not.)

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:
2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

This scenario can also explain DJ's question. To Kennedy's left in the photo below, on the floor, is the gallery to the right and a movable wooden thing to the left. It is blocking the rightmost door in O'Connor's drawing.

Sandy that doesn't explain what appears to be a permanent  "tiled" area to the right of the photo.


Ray,

When I saw that, I figured it was the bottom step of a raised gallery. Raised so that the audience can get a better view.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And then there is this drawing from 1668.. if those railings were there, that tile step in the Stare image can’t be the gallery.  I also seem to remember they did not use the metal support but a wooden block support seem in one of the their photos.

Edit..  although the bottom of those rails may match that little step... if the rails were not there in 63.

https://images.app.goo.gl/zRNve1Sr2KVCryQJA

Bethesda-Hospital-Morgue-drawn-by-Lee-Wa

Edited by David Josephs
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...