Death Stare photo cannot be in Bethesda Morgue

[Ray Mitcham]

3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Ray,

When I saw that, I figured it was the bottom step of a raised gallery. Raised so that the audience can get a better view.

 

Would they have tiled a raised platform?

[Ray Mitcham]

2 hours ago, David Josephs said:

And then there is this drawing from 1668.. if those railings were there, that tile step in the Stare image can’t be the gallery.

I think they might have refitted the place subsequent to that date, David.😀

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, David Josephs said:

And then there is this drawing from 1668.. if those railings were there, that tile step in the Stare image can’t be the gallery.  I also seem to remember they did not use the metal support but a wooden block support seem in one of the their photos.

Edit..  although the bottom of those rails may match that little step... if the rails were not there in 63.

https://images.app.goo.gl/zRNve1Sr2KVCryQJA

 

Note how the back row of the gallery is TWO steps up from the front row. I'll bet that likewise the front row is two steps up from the main floor.

Now, note that the decorative supports for the railing (for the back row) are attached near the top of the upper step (landing) of the back row. Let's call the surface they are attached to the "face" of the steps.

If you could see only the bottom half of the face of the steps, you would not be able to see the decorative supports. I contend that the same is true for the front row. In the stare photo we can see only the bottom half of the steps for the front row of the gallery. And so, we cannot see the decorative supports in the photo.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, David Andrews said:

Was there really room for cigar smoking in that gallery?

Yeah, and did generals really sit on those planks.... um, "benches?" Generals must have been pretty scrawny back then. Slender anyway.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

13 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Would they have tiled a raised platform?

I don't know about the 1960s, but these days the baseboard trim around a tile floor is usually tile as well. Especially in bathrooms. It makes sense because tile is often used for it water resistance, and without tile baseboards the water would seep into the wall and damage it.

 

[Ray Mitcham]

Sounds good, Sandy.

[Chris Bristow]

6 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Note how the back row of the gallery is TWO steps up from the front row. I'll bet that likewise the front row is two steps up from the main floor.

Now, note that the decorative supports for the railing (for the back row) are attached near the top of the upper step (landing) of the back row. Let's call the surface they are attached to the "face" of the steps.

If you could see only the bottom half of the face of the steps, you would not be able to see the decorative supports. I contend that the same is true for the front row. In the stare photo we can see only the bottom half of the steps for the front row of the gallery. And so, we cannot see the decorative supports in the photo.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Chris Bristow
Posted a quote that did not include original photo, reposted with photo

[Chris Bristow]

9 hours ago, David Josephs said:

And then there is this drawing from 1668.. if those railings were there, that tile step in the Stare image can’t be the gallery.  I also seem to remember they did not use the metal support but a wooden block support seem in one of the their photos.

Edit..  although the bottom of those rails may match that little step... if the rails were not there in 63.

https://images.app.goo.gl/zRNve1Sr2KVCryQJA

In this drawing I am looking at the  two sinks against the wall  on the right which correspond to O'Conners drawing. Looking at several autopsy photos with a body on the table it appears the head is positioned at the end of the table that has the sink and faucets on it. Using the cabinet with the 2 sinks in the drawing above as reference the sink at the end of the table indicates that JFK would have been lying in the opposite direction that the Ryberg drawing shows. If that is right it would explain what we see in the death stare photo because JFk's body facing the other way means the camera  was facing away from the gallery and towards the cabinets.

[Joseph McBride]

No wonder witnesses report it was very crowded in there. If this

is an accurately scaled rendition of the autopsy room. I thought

the galley was larger, raked, and off to the side.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Joseph McBride

[Ron Ecker]

13 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

No wonder witnesses report it was very crowded in there. If this

is an accurately scaled rendition of the autopsy room. I thought

the galley was larger, raked, and off to the side.

I think I can even detect in that drawing the lingering smoke from Curtis LeMay's cigar.

 

[Pete Mellor]

The Rydberg drawing is incorrect in relation to the position of JFK's body.....as Chris Bristow has intimated in the above post.

Humes and Fink were positioned around JFK's head, Boswell worked on the lower body with his back to the gallery, and Jim Jenkins assisted Boswell at JFK's right shoulder facing the gallery.

Although the '68 Rydberg sketch gives the impression to me that you couldn't swing a cat in there!

[Ron Bulman]

On 5/5/2020 at 5:25 AM, Ron Ecker said:

I remember someone years ago suggesting that the death stare photo was taken in a morgue or some such facility at Bethesda used by veterinarians, and that the wooden thing on the floor was an animal cage. I don't know why there would be an animal hospital or whatever inside a human hospital, but this person professed knowledge that there was such a facility at Bethesda, and that it would have been handy to use for the pre-autopsy autopsy.

 

 

Ron, this is from memory as well, from reading.  If I remember right there was an animal morgue so to speak behind the morgue at Bethesda in a different building near a back entrance to a rear parking lot.  This was used as a training area for recruits to practice procedures on animal carcasses before they were allowed to participate in human autopsies.

At least one or two at Bethesda claimed to have heard a helicopter landing in the back parking lot well before the hearse arrived in front, supposedly bearing JFK's body.   Some speculated that his body was taken out the back of Airforce 1 and brought to this location on a helicopter for alteration prior to the autopsy.

As opposed to stopping by the supposed first choice for the autopsy,  the Army's Walter Reed Hospital a mile or two away (?) on the way from Andrews AFB to Bethesda, then coming in this back way to the dock. 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Ron Bulman

[Ron Ecker]

4 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Ron, this is from memory as well, from reading.  If I remember right there was an animal morgue so to speak behind the morgue at Bethesda in a different building near a back entrance to a rear parking lot.  This was used as a training area for recruits to practice procedures on animal carcasses before they were allowed to participate in human autopsies.

At least one or two at Bethesda claimed to have heard a helicopter landing in the back parking lot well before the hearse arrived in front, supposedly bearing JFK's body.   Some speculated that his body was taken out the back of Airforce 1 and brought to this location on a helicopter for alteration prior to the autopsy.

As opposed to stopping by the supposed first choice for the autopsy,  the Army's Walter Reed Hospital a mile or two away (?) on the way from Andrews AFB to Bethesda, then coming in this back way to the dock. 

Ron, yes, thanks, that's what I was trying to remember, I just couldn't remember the details as you do.

 

 

[Chris Bristow]

Does anyone know what the initials are(Looks like VS) on the towel under JFK's head on the blue part of the towel? Also was the gallery on a second floor looking down on the scene as other galleries?
And for anyone who wants to strain their eyes you can see some of the room reflected in the chrome head brace in the photo that shows the phone in the background. Looks like you can make out a bowl and maybe cabinets.

 

[David Josephs]

13 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

Does anyone know what the initials are(Looks like VS) on the towel under JFK's head on the blue part of the towel? Also was the gallery on a second floor looking down on the scene as other galleries?
And for anyone who wants to strain their eyes you can see some of the room reflected in the chrome head brace in the photo that shows the phone in the background. Looks like you can make out a bowl and maybe cabinets.

 

Says US